Receiving the valuation ??

[house proud]

We settled on our first IP 2 months ago and at the time of settlement we asked our broker for the valuations that we had paid for or at the very least copies of them.

The broker informed us that they are not issued to the owner of the properties and that they are now the property of the bank. Although we paid for them they are part of the supporting docs to go with the application for the loan.
He said he would however, do us a big favour and pop them in the post for us
(accidently of course, as he could get into trouble). Obviously we have not received them.

I called the Office of Fair Trading this am and I was told that if you have paid for the valuations as we did - then yes, they do legally belong to us, and as such we are entitled to them. I again called the loan company and was again told NO we can not give them to you as they do belong to the bank.
I explained that I had spoken with O.F.T and they said they would get back to me. Half an hour later they called to say NO again, however, the lady had found just one page from the valuation and would be happy to email it to me. I told them NO I would like the full copies on both of the properties.
After a few huffs and puffs from the lady I was speaking with she said she will contact the credit control section and see what she can do..

Has anyone else had this experience and if so how did you get on ???

Apart from the principle of it, we have also worked our butts off doing renovations in the past two months and would now like to see how we will go using the new equity to purchase another IP.

what do you all think, should we have them? Not having done this before maybe it is us asking for too much ?
cheers
House Proud from a scorching Adelaide

 

[House_Keeper]

We settled on our first IP 2 months ago and at the time of settlement we asked our broker for the valuations that we had paid for or at the very least copies of them.

The broker informed us that they are not issued to the owner of the properties and that they are now the property of the bank. Although we paid for them they are part of the supporting docs to go with the application for the loan.
He said he would however, do us a big favour and pop them in the post for us
(accidently of course, as he could get into trouble). Obviously we have not received them.

I called the Office of Fair Trading this am and I was told that if you have paid for the valuations as we did - then yes, they do legally belong to us, and as such we are entitled to them. I again called the loan company and was again told NO we can not give them to you as they do belong to the bank.
I explained that I had spoken with O.F.T and they said they would get back to me. Half an hour later they called to say NO again, however, the lady had found just one page from the valuation and would be happy to email it to me. I told them NO I would like the full copies on both of the properties.
After a few huffs and puffs from the lady I was speaking with she said she will contact the credit control section and see what she can do..

Has anyone else had this experience and if so how did you get on ???

Apart from the principle of it, we have also worked our butts off doing renovations in the past two months and would now like to see how we will go using the new equity to purchase another IP.

what do you all think, should we have them? Not having done this before maybe it is us asking for too much ?
cheers
House Proud from a scorching Adelaide

I have also found it very difficult to get a copy of the valuation, although my broker was willing to tell me that value figure.

I wish I knew how to get the full copy of the valuation. Why do the bank refuse to give the copy that we paid for? I don't really know, but that doesn't do much to build a relationship of trust between the bank and its customer.

A few years back, Macquarie Bank was happy to give me the full copy of the valuation. Do you know of other banks who do the same? Maybe the smaller lender?s If giving out the full copy of the valuation would get them more business, we may find more lenders willing to do it

 

[geoffw]

Technically, I think the lender has "paid" the valuation. You paid the lender, they paid the valuer- so they get to keep the valuation.

Valuations for institutions tend to reflect either the money you are going to pay, or the assessed value if less.

If you've done a lot of work since it was valued for the bank, it is probably worth paying for a new val. At minimum, if you knew who did the last one, you may be able to get another at a reduced rate.

 

[superted]

They can keep the original, a photo copy would suffice ;-)

 

[JoannaK]

I used to do some part time work for a bank and their policy was never to reveal the value or provide copies of the valuations as they didn't want to be responsible for ruining any deal.

 

[toony]

I have never paid for a valuation. But I have never used a mortgage broker. I have a relationship manager at one of the banks. So I have never had access to a valuation. But if I had to pay for one then I would certainly want a copy.

Is it possible the mortgage broker has made you pay for one, when in fact the bank paid for it?

I know there are some suss brokers out there. My brother got involved with one. Now I am trying to clean the mess by gettting my relationship manager to refinance him.

 

[Alan H]

In practice, you can usually get the valuation figure but even then it's usually supplied with a bit of a nudge, nudge, wink, wink and the impression that they are doing you a massive favour.......

I'm with you, while they may be in a legal position to withold this, they certainly don't do their customer relations any good with this attitude.

Rightly or wrongly, 99% of the population will assume if they paid for something, they should have access to it!

The time to insist on this is probably BEFORE agreeing to go with a particular bank though rather than AFTER.

 

[house proud]

Technically, I think the lender has "paid" the valuation. You paid the lender, they paid the valuer- so they get to keep the valuation.

Valuations for institutions tend to reflect either the money you are going to pay, or the assessed value if less.

If you've done a lot of work since it was valued for the bank, it is probably worth paying for a new val. At minimum, if you knew who did the last one, you may be able to get another at a reduced rate.

Geoff, We actually wrote "two seperate cheques" for the valuations to be done. However, they were wrote out to the finance company but the receipt we received stated for valuation. So yes they maybe able to get around it by saying they technically paid for it but OFT said otherwise.
The valuation we really want is for our PPOR as we used the equity in that for the IP. We would certainly need to get a new valuation for the IP , but again it the principle as well
thanks for your advice as always.
House Proud

 

[house proud]

ohh by the way they did tell us the valuations verbally.....forgot to mention that- sorry!

 

[house proud]

I used to do some part time work for a bank and their policy was never to reveal the value or provide copies of the valuations as they didn't want to be responsible for ruining any deal.

BUT surely after the deal has been completed...settlement etc. What then..?
thanks for the inside thoughts though...appreciate your time
House Proud

 

[house proud]

In practice, you can usually get the valuation figure but even then it's usually supplied with a bit of a nudge, nudge, wink, wink and the impression that they are doing you a massive favour.......

I'm with you, while they may be in a legal position to withold this, they certainly don't do their customer relations any good with this attitude.

Rightly or wrongly, 99% of the population will assume if they paid for something, they should have access to it!

The time to insist on this is probably BEFORE agreeing to go with a particular bank though rather than AFTER.

According to Office of Fair Trading they are not legally allowed to with hold them - they just think they can !
maybe I could start a campaign to stop this...
cheers
House Proud

 

[Simon]

I have never paid for a valuation. But I have never used a mortgage broker. I have a relationship manager at one of the banks. So I have never had access to a valuation. But if I had to pay for one then I would certainly want a copy.

Is it possible the mortgage broker has made you pay for one, when in fact the bank paid for it?

I know there are some suss brokers out there. My brother got involved with one. Now I am trying to clean the mess by gettting my relationship manager to refinance him.

I doubt this would be the case Toony.

We rarely order vals or get to see them - only a few banks get the broker involved at that level.

We are told not to advise the client of the valuer as there has been instances of them calling and pressuring, abusing or offering inducements for a favourable valuation.

Don't blame the broker - he is just the meat in the sandwich in this instance.

Cheers,

 

[Kristine..]

G'Day

Well, over the years I have never received a copy of the valuation and in most cases have not been told what a property valued at, but 'yes we can do the deal' or 'yes, we can offer you $X'.

Most of the time, when borrowing from a bank, the local branch manager or other authorised personnel do a 'drive past' and that's enough. No fee to a third party, just a quick validation from a staff member.

As a broker, some lenders require me to make the phone calls and to organise the valuation, provide the valuer with supporting information etc. The report is then faxed back to me and I submit it to the lender.

However, I am 'honour bound' not to reveal the company or individual valuer's name to the customer - this is part of the privilege of the commercial nature of the contract of supply between the lender and the valuer.

I can, and do, discuss other parts of the valuation with the customer eg rental estimate, capital value, perhaps comparable sales but if the customer demands a copy of the valuation I cannot supply that copy, it would be in breach of my service contract with the lender.

Obviusly, sometimes the valuer meets the customer, for example when arranging access to a property, and the valuer may give the customer a card for identification, but the valuer may not discuss the report with the customer.

Some of the comments on reports are less than complimentary and if the privilege of confidentiality is lost the reports will necessarily lose frankness.

And at the end of the day, that report was prepared for the QuickQuid Loan Company and cannot be relied on by any third party etc etc, so the report is of no consequence to anyone else.

Equally, some lenders provide a list of valuers from whom they will accept reports, and it is up to the customer to organise and pay for the valuation directly, and in this instance the customer provides the lender with the valuation and of course get to keep a copy of the report.

Don't forget, just because a lender's policy is to lend to 95%LVR subject to serviceability, they may decide to build in a bit more security if they are not all that comfortble with the deal, by implying that they will lend to 90% LVR on that property, and what they lend and to whom is entirely their choice.

I have also had the other occur, where a lender's policy was 65% maximum, and the valuer valued significantly higher to allow a larger lend.

Reasons for valuations will influence the report and the valuer has discretion to take various factors into account. eg State Land Tax valuations are performed on 'Highest And Best Use' and you may be taxed on the office block which MIGHT at some time in the future be built on your land.

It's all swings and roundabouts but surely the quality of the deal is more important than whether or not you get a copy of the valuation as provided to the lender. The only time I have been interested in knowing the specific valuations of a property is for a cross-collateralised loan where I need to apportion the loan for tax purposes. Other than that, your own knowledge of the market is likely to be at least as accurate for normal borrowing purposes.

PS

Many people think that their renovations will have added $ for $ value or more, and are horrified to find that a renovated cal bung is worth about as much as an unrenovated cal bung.

Or they think that a weatherboard with an iron roof is worth as much as a brick veneer with a tiled roof etc

A valuation is not a 'market appraisal', it is a sworn document for which the valuer is responsible.

I would suggest that if you really want a valuation on your property you organise it yourself, and you will realise the reasons for the valuation are almost as important as the number of bedrooms in the house.

cheers

Kristine

 

[David E-Noosa]

Many people think that their renovations will have added $ for $ value or more, and are horrified to find that a renovated cal bung is worth about as much as an unrenovated cal bung.

An age old valuation saying "cost does not equal value"

As example $30,000 spent on a pool does not in some cases add $30k to the value. Or the property I have for sale at this moment which has a full size tennis court is worth nothing more to me for having one, I don't play tennis so its worthless to me.

I know this is getting off topic.

 

[house proud]

Hi Kristine,
Many thanks for your detailed reply, I am sure many learners to the world of real estate will benefit.

Firstly, in my instance they did not do a "drive past" (maybe they work harder in S.A) The valuer was in my home for half an hour and at the IP for the same amount of time. She detailed inside and outside my home and even checked out hubbies garage with the pit ;-) She loved my choice of decorating and even asked my advice on her own decorating ideas. She asked us what we thought the price was valued at! We told her and it came in spot on .....sus hmmm, don't know !

We do know the local market very well and we also know that we could get more $$$ if we sold, but like you say, it is a valuation not a market appraisal. We apprecaite the difference.

2nd, she also introduced herself warmly, her name and the company she was represented.

3rd, even though I knew her details at the time I did not dream to ask her for a copy of the report because as far as I was concerned the bank should send it on to me when they have viewed it .

4th, saying it is of no use to anyone else.....well it is to us...It is in the use by date being only nine weeks since the valuation of our property and we would like to "reuse it" as we only used a very small amount of the equity. It will save us another $300

5th, "cross-collateralised loan where I need to apportion the loan for tax purposes" and yes we need it for this too ! I should have had this at number one.

6th, We are not first home buyers ...We are not idiots, we may still be learning the IP side but we have owned many homes and always made a tidy sum from renovating them.

We also believe that if we pay for something we should be entitled to it regardless of what I want it for it is our choice...I may even decide to use it to put it in the cat litter tray ..
cheers
House Proud

 

[Kiwi Investor]

When you purchase a ppty in NZ it's up to the purchaser to provide a valuation to the bank, depending on the situation this may be a full valuation costing around $350. The bank gets a copy and so does the buyer. As long as the numbers stack up the bank will loan the required finance. It's all above board and having a valuation can give good peace of mind. You can also gain purchase and rateable infromation from NZ web sites which help to verfiy information. I have my pptys re valued on a regular basis (every 2-3 yrs) to see how they are tracking. It's part of my review process.
I have noticed that in Aust the valuation situation is more secret. I have a friend who is an investor and he has a valuer as a close friend. He was telling me that the banks pay anyting from $100 to $150 for a valuation and then charge the est fee for the loan anthing from $250-$700. So the banks say you have paid an est (or application) fee for your loan and can get around not giving the valation to you. I have asked St George Bank who say they will give a copy. If any valuers or bankers can confirm or deny. I personally would like to see any valuation on a ppty that I am purchasing. Being satisfised with a valuation, one could argue, is part of a pre purchase due dillegence process.

KI

 

[Dos]

G'day all,

We have never received a report either but our broker is more than happy to let me know what the vals are and tells me any comments that were noted on the form. Therefore we have never really required to get a physical copy as we know the numbers and any concerns.

This also helps in doing further calcs and we know at any time of any day our LVR/DSR. Also helps with the SANF!!

Dos

 

[Rolf Latham]

Hiya All

Truly, in most instances, getting a look at the valuation is a moot point, unless the property doesnt value up, then i want to know what comp sales have been used.

If you are buying a property at 80/90/95/100 % lvr and the lender is happy to take the security, you know what the val came in at.

As for adverse comments, if there are adverse things, they will often be pointed out - for eg 1 in 100 flood zones and the lender may not lend.

In 99 % of cases then where the property has valued up there is little value in a valuation, except maybe its novelty value, and while I agree that it should be provided to the buyer, its not something we should be losing too much sleep over

BTW, STG will rarely let you have a val.

ta

rolf

 

[house proud]

Valuations in the post !



the credit control manager has just rang me to say he has spoken with the lender and they are sending me the valuations.
They had according to him already been posted.

Thanks to veryone who contributed to this topic and as always i appreciate your time and opinions..

cheers house proud

 

[wealthyjay]

Glad you got the valuations in the end.

I have been told that in WA at least you have the ability to get and receive valuations from valuers. However, the banks have their own valuers and that they often are conservative with their valuations that the banks use for equity calcs etc

Something I didn't know until recently is that you can get a valuation performed on your property through the valuer generals office for nothing or a small fee. I paid nothing as part of a title change.

Don't know if these were worth anything to anyone, just chiming in