Retirement Villages.. Preying on the Elderly?

[weg]

One of our close friends is a Retirement Village manager - for private premises.

Don't kid yourself; the owners employ her to fill up beds, run a profitable ship...to make money.

The alternative is public nursing premises.

I started my nurse assistant stint working in one of those, before landing a gig in the ICU...

The differences are quite plain from private to public, mostly. Not that public isn't good; but not as good.

The problem is; private is more available when you need them, whereas the public ones might have no room.

You can't just decide to enter 'public nursing premises' without being assessed as having functional problems.

Retirement villages generally offer a non nursing supportive and lifestyle alternative living environment not so ACAT approved low care villages.

They are totally different - the latter is highly regulated/part government funded {no need to bring in lawyers to read contracts} and the other does it's own thing because it's private living accommodation with frills.

What was your role in this place and was it a retirement village or ACAT approved low care {can appear to be like a retirement village}?

Retirement villages generally don't provide nursing care but low care staff can answer emergency bells if in close proximity to privately funded retirement units belonging to the same organization.

On the comment "The problem is; private is more available when you need them, whereas the public ones might have no room"... there are no public retirement or low care villages; all are private.

If it happens that you need nursing care then it's pretty easy to get in - always beds available somewhere. People generally don't get in straight away because they wait for particular places, but you can enter one and then switch to another or do an temporary stay {these are specific beds} until where you want one becomes available.

Thought I'd mention this because some people here are using the words care and nursing when discussing retirement villages and this can be misleading.

 

[wylie]

Following on from Weg's post, I'd add that a friend's grandmother stayed in her own home but had a private nurse stay every night. That cost something like $700 per week but it gave her grandmother the ability to stay near her friends, with the security of having help during the night.

We were looking into having my father move downstairs into basically a self contained flat in his own house, so my mother could go out and socialise occasionally. We thought of having a nurse stay over if it was necessary as he needed more care. Before we could act on that my mother was diagnosed with a brain tumour and we had a service who placed people find Dad a place in a nursing home as an urgent matter.

We paid a $500K bond and we paid $750 per week for his care there. We chose the slightly higher package that gave him a beer with his dinner and few other luxuries but even without that, it was about $700 per week. He was there for two and a half years when he passed away and most of the bond came back to us. It was nothing like the original post suggests would be lost per year for a retirement village.

Someone who didn't work to provide for their own retirement may have been in the next room to my father, paying most of his/her pension for the same level of care (ie. several hundred dollars less for the same care per week).

If your mother is happy where she is, or could move into a smaller, secure home of her own she could put some of the funds she will pay in a good nursing home into paying for someone to sleep over and care for her as she ages in place.

I don't regret one cent of what it cost to have my father in such a place with such caring people. And being self-funded, I guess he got into such a place faster than had he been on a pension. I believe there is a certain number of pensioners who must be taken in, but I'm not sure of what those figures are.

The fact that he paid so much for the same care as someone else paying much less is what I see as one of the downsides of working hard to provide for your retirement, but that is another story for another day.

 

[weg]

Following on from Weg's post, I'd add that a friend's grandmother stayed in her own home but had a private nurse stay every night. That cost something like $700 per week but it gave her grandmother the ability to stay near her friends, with the security of having help during the night.

The recent new aged care legislation has introduced a new level of nursing care which is community based with the costs based on affordability - although I don't think they would provide a nurse all night every night for security!

Help for home care, transport and getting to appointments/social events, fitting aids or making home modifications, alarm pendants {fully government subsidized}access to equipment like electric beds, commodes, wheelchairs, etc. has been around for a while and available though councils, government agencies and private organizations for a small cost.

The help can be quite substantial if you look hard enough, find and tap into it.



.

 

[wylie]

Weg, my parents and my friend's grandmother were not entitled to anything from the government because they had worked to accumulate assets. I do know that the only thing my mother was entitled to was a cleaner for 2 hours per fortnight because she became entitled to a carer pension which was a measly figure per fortnight, but it gave her the cleaner.

Honestly though, the cleaners were next to useless, one "couldn't clean the bathrooms or kitchen because she had fake nails" .

 

[weg]

Weg, my parents and my friend's grandmother were not entitled to anything from the government because they had worked to accumulate assets. I do know that the only thing my mother was entitled to was a cleaner for 2 hours per fortnight because she became entitled to a carer pension which was a measly figure per fortnight, but it gave her the cleaner.

Honestly though, the cleaners were next to useless, one "couldn't clean the bathrooms or kitchen because she had fake nails" .

There are people who will come to the home regularly and play cards, take you shopping, to appointments, etc. {not based on assets}, doctors and blood takers and district nurses will come to your home {district nurse care not assets tested} now the availability of the ACAT community package unless suffering from an acute or temporary illness - no bond charge for this}.

Friends mother got an up/down electric bed and an assortment of other aids as well as house modifications and a nurse to shower her 3 times a week.

my mother gets house cleaning - a bit hit and miss, but she's been mostly lucky and had 2 lovely women now who have been with her long term -, gutters cleaned, a yearly spring clean, gets picked up by taxi twice a week and taken out with her friends {again not asset based}.

Does paid for bus trips and the odd regional or holiday location overnighter for a small cost.

Does free Pilates at the council community center and said the other day she wouldn't mind going back to aqua exercise at the public rehab hospital 10 minutes away {free with doctors referral}.

She can access Greek meals on wheels if she wanted to but doesn't.

much of this is not asset based.

She keeps getting injured in the garden so is thinking of getting a gardener but she'll need to pay that .

It's not perfect but goes a long way in keeping someone at home, especially if there is some supportive family around or they live with someone and that's finding the care load is becoming too much - ACAT respite is available for this reason as well.

 

[geoffw]

I have heard of cases where an older person in a large house takes in a boarder who stays for free, in return for light maintenance, cooking and companionship. It's something which can help a young person to save up for a house and provide a vital service in return.

 

[chilliblue]

It is really simple.

If you believe that a well run supportive retirement village is a scam and a con to the elderly, then sort out your arrangements.

There is nothing stopping you in buying a normal residence and arranging private care and someone who cleans and cooks and is able to offer medical assistance.

Have brought and several retirement villages for clients the good ones are costly and for a reason.

 

[Spades]

I have heard of cases where an older person in a large house takes in a boarder who stays for free, in return for light maintenance, cooking and companionship. It's something which can help a young person to save up for a house and provide a vital service in return.

Hi geoff,

This i was considering not long ago for extra cash flow...The above maybe applicable to the 'Housing Affordability for GEN Y' thread

@Stangman...If your mother has all her marbles and can look after herself,why not a unit with little maintanence?And to quote chilliblue to which i agree:

There is nothing stopping you in buying a normal residence and arranging private care and someone who cleans and cooks and is able to offer medical assistance.

Anyhow,i've got a friend who's family is looking for a retirement village for there mother,she has parkinsons/dimentia and is going downhill rapidly.Currently DH is looking after her but stress is going to kill him.
DH intent is to keep his home and stay there and put DW in a retirement home closeby.
DH has signed up for one where he puts eg:500k down for the unit and pays the weekly expenses.
500k is returned when DW passes away.

Cheers Spades.

 

[weg]

Hi geoff,

This i was considering not long ago for extra cash flow...The above maybe applicable to the 'Housing Affordability for GEN Y' thread

@Stangman...If your mother has all her marbles and can look after herself,why not a unit with little maintanence?And to quote chilliblue to which i agree:



Anyhow,i've got a friend who's family is looking for a retirement village for there mother,she has parkinsons/dimentia and is going downhill rapidly.Currently DH is looking after her but stress is going to kill him.
DH intent is to keep his home and stay there and put DW in a retirement home closeby.
DH has signed up for one where he puts eg:500k down for the unit and pays the weekly expenses.
500k is returned when DW passes away.

Cheers Spades.

That would be an 'ACAT assessed' low care facility which is very different to a retirement village.

Your friends mother would be entering there because she needs medical and nursing care something a retirement village doesn't provide.

Just thought I'd point that out and sorry if I sound like a know it all, just that there is so much confusion over elder care .

Btw, has your friend applied to Centerlink for an assessment for supported or part supported care.

If the DH still lives in the family home a Bond like that would mean he would have assets or money in bank in excess of 1m outside of the home.

If not he needs to fill out the appropriate paperwork.

 

[Spades]

Hi weg,

I don't know if it's 'ACAT assessed' as it's in victoria,so maybe called something else?Unless your referring to victoria?Anyway i don't know either way.

Yes she needs 24/7 care and no you don't come across as a know it all,just someone who has some knowledge in this area and i appreciate your input

This is the one there considering weg:

http://www.mayflower.org.au/

As for centerlink,i dunno,i do know they went to some assessment and were allocated 3hrs a week or could have been 3hrs per day?

His assets are setup appropriately ie:trusts,shares etc and son is an accountant,so financially there adding that into the equation as well as priority for wife/mothers care etc.

Cheers Spades.

 

[PrimeCommercial]

Having a wife who is an accountant and a mother in senior management in Australia's second largest 'not for profit' aged provider I can tell you that the big guys are not making any money, in fact I know this one lost about $2mil last year and about $1mil he year before. The big not for profits like Anglicare, Unitingcare, Catholicare, Baptist Community Services, all run close to the bone. I have no idea about the 'for profit' businesses.

My mother put my grandfather in one of their homes, so she must believe in the benefits.

 

[weg]

Hi weg,

I don't know if it's 'ACAT assessed' as it's in victoria,so maybe called something else?Unless your referring to victoria?Anyway i don't know either way.

Yes she needs 24/7 care and no you don't come across as a know it all,just someone who has some knowledge in this area and i appreciate your input

This is the one there considering weg:

http://www.mayflower.org.au/

It's a Commonwealth Government approved aged care facility that allows for an ACAT assessment {ACAS is correct - ACAT is what we called it at my work a few years ago} to determine what you pay and how much the government puts in.

This page mentions it.

http://www.mayflower.org.au/resident.htm

 

[pully]

strongman she is fortunate to have you to assist her. can understand the appeal of these places, often called lifestyle villages in sa. just good to understand what is actually being supplied and paid for. as others have said big difference between the purely accommodation places and those that receive federal funding as approved operators to provide care and accommodation.
to confuse the issue further there are facilities called supportive accommodation and these are not usually govt funded. 1 was recently in the media, in Victoria, financial problems and the residents will not be getting their bonds repaid and no one knows where the money has gone. bottom line as always research as much as possible and if in any doubt get advice. sadly many make decisions in a crisis and do not have the luxury to take their time and make informed choices.

 

[peppy]

Retirement Villages Preying on the elderly

I would advise you to speak to centre link for advice about the different levels of senior living. Nursing Home, Assisted Care, Serviced Apartments, Self care Apartments. hostels etc. they all have different financial arrangments etc.

Retirement Villages are totally different. You need to shop aroud because there are various types of contracts. They are not all the same.
I live in a Retirement village, in my own villa. Two bedrooms, two bathrooms two garages, own garden etc.
Its a wonderful lifestyle for seniors, especially if you are living alone.
There is an emargency call system if I am not well. I have neighbours near by, There is a pool, gym, coffee shop, post office, Chemist pick up and delivery, doctors room, podiatrist, physiotherapist, hairdresser, barber, beautician, dentist, Newspaper delivery, kiosk.
Village bus which takes us free to surrounding shopping centres every day.
There is wifi internet, concerts, movies, happy hours and social dances within the village.
We have bus tours and trips to Sydney etc.
There is 53 different activities and clubs which are held in the community rooms and auditorium weekly or fortnightly. These activities are mostly run by the Residents and are free.
Living here means you can join in as much or as little as you want.
Living in your house in the suburbs means you have to organise for repairs, gardens, painting etc yourself.
In a village every thing is done at your rquest.
Replacing a light globe etc I don't have to wait for my son to visit to do it.
or look for an electrician.
I was alone in my home now I do not have to wait for family to call to drive me to the shops if I can no longer drive.
Its a wonderful lifestyle and that is what you are gaining.
If your mother wants to move look at all the choices and do a google search. do the homework. If you are in NSW check out RVRA.
I wish you well.

 

[Aaron Sice]

http://www.collegepark.com.au

college park is strata titled with all the amenities - leave it to your kids.

but a lease-for-life = rip off. no way i could put anyone into that product.

 

[redwing]

Hi Peppy

Welcome to Somersoft

Sounds like a better deal than some. What are the cost's and associated fees?

 

[cegosling]

My parents bought a 2 bed unit in an AVEO village in South Australia. At the time of purchase they were 73 and the reason for buying here was that my father was extremely ill, and the thought of an onsite gardener/caretaker and maintenance man gave my mother reassurance. A management couple lived on site and were on call 24 hours a day, which was also good as it was a point of contact if I couldn't reach my mother on the phone. Fast forward 14 years, and my mother still lives there alone. AVEO have changed their management of the complex and advised residents it is not financially viable to have onsite caretakers. There is now an admin person who comes in 3 part time days a week, and a gardener who comes in 3 half days. When her oven broke down it took 3 weeks to fix. It has been run like this for the past 3 years. They can not keep staff and in the past 12 months have gone through five sets of admin and gardening people. It is not what the original residents bought in there for. And yes, there are the extremely high exit fees if she needs to move on to a higher level of care. Would I ever buy into or recommend these retirement villages - no way.

 

[Stangman]

The Price to Pay for Peace of Mind

It is good to read all the different points of view on this Thread, especially the posts from those with relatives currently living in Retirement Villages.

cegosling, my mother was close to signing on with an Aveo Village but ended up choosing another not for profit outfit with many,many years in this field.

As i have previously stated, for my mother to live in one of these Villages is a very good thing as she can no longer cope with maintaining her gardens and the house. My issues are with the hefty exit fees - sometimes called deferred management fees.

Have been looking into the basics of Retirement Villages in South australia. They are regulated by the Retirement Villages Act which is administered by the Office For the Ageing. Here is a Link to the Seniors Information Service which explains a lot and has some very good Links to information. -

http://www.seniors.asn.au/centric/retirement_housing/retirement_villages_introduction.jsp


Also a Link to a PDF File of the Retirement Village Act -

http://www.legislation.sa.gov.au/LZ/C/A/RETIREMENT VILLAGES ACT 1987/CURRENT/1987.46.UN.PDF

On Sunday when we visited mum there was a good discussion about her reasons for wanting to enter a Retirement village. It all boils down to " Peace of Mind ". Mum explained that she no longer feels safe in her home. I totally understand this. As people get older they lose a lot of confidence in dealing with people and prefer to be insulated somewhat from everyday situations.
Also mum does not like asking us to help with maintenance issues all the time. This is not normally a problem for any of us, but there are many demands on our time so sometimes it is not easy to get there quickly.

When i suggested to mum that it was going to cost her $500 per week for the next six years she replied ' No - It will cost me $109 per week - You kids are paying the rest out of your inheritance " Lol. Could not argue with that.
I should mention as one of 5 surviving children the inheritance is a non issue.

It is apparent that mum has thought long and hard about this and is fully aware of the costs, but is still determined to go through with it. Personally i still feel it is indeed " Preying on the Elderly ", but i respect mum and her decision.

Have read through the contract. Found it easy to follow with all costs laid out. So no surprises into the future.

The family will now support mum`s choice and help her to sell the family home then help to make her comfortable in her new one.

Stangman.

 

[geoffw]

Stangman

It's great that you're able to discuss these things with your mother while she's in a position to make the decisions. With my parents, some decisions were left too late,which limited the action which could be taken. We didn't know until later how much my Mum had deteriorated (Alzheimer's) and how much my Dad had shielded what was happening.

Well done too in listening and respecting her position despite it going against your own wishes.

 

[Spades]

Hi Stangman,

Not an easy decision to make but seems your mum has made up her mind.

Totally agree with your 'Preying on the elderly',pretty sad imo.

Good luck with it all,

Cheers Spades.