Rich.. Bankrupt.. Rich Again (Wolf of Wall Street)

underdev said:
Intrinsic Value, interested to know what cycle you think we are in at the moment? The ASX seems too hot and overvalued I can only find a handful of companies that are undervalued but they are being heavily shorted daily. Bonds have little value.

Can you provide a bit of an insight to where you think things are heading?
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honestly I don't know, we are at a reflection point, share markets are trading above their intrinsic values. But those intrinsic values are based on this point in time, it is possible that future intrinsic values will improve if the economy improves. If this happens then the share prices could be valued correctly.

But from reading general annual meetings, many businesses are saying that they are not seeing things improving, not by much anyway.

So basically its my view that money is being pushed into equity markets because
(a) interest rates are so low (so the risk free or alternative rate is so low)
(b) the trend is now up, so all the trend followers and all the 'dumb' money that invests based on trends rather than value is also blindly moving into the market.

As for those shares that appear 'cheap', I am nervous of many of them. They might be cheap for a good reason.

I am much happier when the market is fearful, when fearful, many good quality companies are 'cheap' because of a lack of general market buying support. That market fear allows one to buy good quality companies at significantly below intrinsic value. Since they are good companies, I don't have to worry about the underlying companies, only the price paid for them.


I am personally selling gradually, reducing my margin loan (as others out there are suddenly increasing them again).

I am using excess funds to expand my personal business interests.

So what am I buying in the share market:
not much
I am slowing buying Chinese banks, only for a maximum exposure of 10% of the portfolio. I need to find at a minimum another 10 investment opportunities (and preferably 20, I don't like 10% exposures, it increases risk too much).
 
devank said:
Our major political parties could be good start :p


How do you buy shares in Chinese Banks? (sorry... I know nothing beyond ASX).
Are there any danger from the gov simple taking over those banks?
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I buy through the HK stock exchange.
I personally cant buy in the local Chinese exchanges.

(But I do this through my Australian based broker, I get access to a global platform, so basically call up, say I want to buy (number) XYZ on blah blah market at X price. Then have to settle in local currency by selling AU$))

Similar to dual listings such as BHP (listed on London stock exchange and Australian stock exchange) so it is with the Chinese Banks.

But with any dual listing there are arbitrage opportunities.

Usually mainland chinese share prices are more expensive than their HK counterpart, but in the last six months this has reversed.

To buy in China I get my inlaws to buy them.

So have a direct exposure through HK and indirect exposure in China.

The smaller Chinese banks (such as China merchants banks) are private, but the big players are still effectively state owned. So if the govt takes them over they are majority taking over themselves:p

Also a lot of mainland chinese have their money invested either directly or through their equivalent super accounts, given that China is not a democracy, one of its staple rules, is to keep its population quiet through economic growth. Taking back mainland chinese shares wont achieve that.

For myself I have exposure to
Bank of China
ICBC
China Merchants Bank

Yes they are risky, all banks are, but at least they are 'cheap'.
Also my risk control is a limit as % of portfolio. Right now about 5% of the portfolio is in Chinese banks.
 
As per Player

Above The Law

How the "Wolf of Wall Street" Is Still Screwing His Real-Life Victims

Leonardo DiCaprio as Jordan Belfort -- who prosecutors say has failed to pay back more than $90 million owed to his victims.
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Also

Investors? Story Left Out of Wall St. ?Wolf? Movie

Belfort was sentenced to four years in prison for securities fraud and money laundering. He was released from federal prison after serving 22 months, in April 2006. A little more than a year later, he published his tell-all about the go-go years, ?The Wolf of Wall Street.? He followed up in 2009 with ?Catching the Wolf of Wall Street.? According to court records, Mr. Belfort received $940,500 for the movie rights to his two books.

At Mr. Belfort?s sentencing in 2003, Judge John Gleeson of Federal District Court in Brooklyn said that Mr. Belfort owed investors $110 million for his crimes and that he must divert 50 percent of his gross monthly revenue to a victims? fund beginning one month after his release from prison.

The government has already distributed $10.4 million to investors garnered from property Mr. Belfort gave up in his plea agreement. And after serving restraining notices on Mr. Belfort?s publishers in 2007, the government reached an agreement with Mr. Belfort that it would receive half of the book proceeds.

In addition, Stephen P. Harbeck, president of the Securities Investor Protection Corporation, said his agency and a bankruptcy trustee gave investors $3.9 million from Stratton assets that remained after it collapsed, and an additional $5.3 million from SIPC funds. Of 3,378 Stratton customers who filed claims with SIPC, only 362 collected money, according to SIPC?s 2008 annual report.

Mr. Belfort said in an interview that his brokers singled out people who could afford to lose money. ?Listen, the idea of Stratton was it was wealthy people we were calling ? not your average moms and pops,? he said.
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That old saying applies: if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.

A documentary on Belfort's victims could be good ;)

I will watch it and expect it to be similar to the Boiler Room or Margin Call movies :cool:
 
If I ripped off that many people and rich ones, i'd be too scared that Id get whacked at anytime

I'm surprised some of the rich and connected ones, dont' pay uncle luigi $50k to make him disappear for ever
 
Really, I am going to see it anyway got me intrigued, as I mentioned I read the book.

I see Di Caprio won the Global for his performance.
 
MTR said:
Really, I am going to see it anyway got me intrigued, as I mentioned I read the book.

I see Di Caprio won the Global for his performance.
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My wife and I enjoyed it.

Not something you'd take the kids to though! (if you've read the book you'd understand)
 
baby blue eyes said:
Enjoyed the first book. The second exposed his personality even more. Will watch the movie, but the karma bus has yet to sort him out.....
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But I watched him on tele tonight, he stated that all his creditors have been paid, all the money received from movie rights, book etc has paid off all 100%, whew ...... the Karma Bus has made another detour:p
 
MTR said:
But I watched him on tele tonight, he stated that all his creditors have been paid, all the money received from movie rights, book etc has paid off all 100%, whew ...... the Karma Bus has made another detour:p
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ah there it is... you see it's easy to kick a dog when it's down and people are so quick to pass judgement. I have a friend that is a friend of a very wealthy person who made the interesting point that when he bankrupted many years back no one wanted to know him and he was like a leper, however making it back in a serious way, no one remembers any of that and now he is put on a pedestal

Everyone loves a winner and memories are short.
 
Ausprop said:
ah there it is... you see it's easy to kick a dog when it's down and people are so quick to pass judgement. I have a friend that is a friend of a very wealthy person who made the interesting point that when he bankrupted many years back no one wanted to know him and he was like a leper, however making it back in a serious way, no one remembers any of that and now he is put on a pedestal

Everyone loves a winner and memories are short.
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this guy committed fraud, he wasnt bankrupted due to an unfortunate turn of events. he readily admits to committing a hell of a lot of crimes so yes, in this case a lot of the comments directed his way are entirely deserved.
 
sanj said:
this guy committed fraud, he wasnt bankrupted due to an unfortunate turn of events. he readily admits to committing a hell of a lot of crimes so yes, in this case a lot of the comments directed his way are entirely deserved.
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i've tried to finish the book over the course of 2 flights now and am still only half way thru - wish I could find more time to read... or read faster
 
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