Settlement t'mrw. Hold back $250 for unmowed lawn/uncleared drains?

[chilliblue]

Unless you can prove with date/time stamped photographs and are willing to delay settlement and incur additional legal costs on your part then go ahead and have the argument.

However, for such a small cost, it may be easier to let it slide.

 

[DaveM]

I put a special condition on offer which goes into the contract that lawns and edges to be done at settlement, and also any rubbish removal requirements (explictly noted for clarity eg all contents in shed and garage). That way its in the contract and cant be argued about later on, and withholding funds is easy.

I havent sold much but a former PPOR the purchaser tried to withhold $2000 on settlement day due to water damage to the hallway wall outside the front door from a laundry leak from an adjacent unit, "in the event a special levy is raised to repair the damage".

My soli told them to bugger off as 1) its common property and not part of the lot being sold, 2) damage was there when the contracts exchanged, 3) damage caused by defect in another lot not party to the transaction, 4) you cant withhold funds for a possibilitym of an event that may not transpire (special levy). Purchaser's soli crawled back into their box. I like my soli

 

[Beanie Girl]

Beanie Girl,

If this is a real issues, i am more than happy to pop around to the property and clear the drains for you. I am on holidays at the moment and more than happy to help a fellow Somersoft out. Just PM me the address, and that the tenants (if any) are aware that I will be attending.

Billy, that's utterly sweet of you. If the other side won't agree to do it, I'll definitely call on you. The property is in Rochedale South, near the shopping centre. You must charge me the fair amount for your labour, I insist! If Rochedale South is too far away for you, not to worry. Your offer is very much appreciated

 

[Beanie Girl]

Look at your contract. Bear in mind that if you failto settle and do not have just cause the vendor can keep the deposit in queensland because your contract will normally be time of the essence for completion.

JRC, we will definitely settle tomorrow. Conveyancer said that we are entitled to a reasonably clean and tidy property, she has put forward the request to clear the drains to the other solicitor. She said she can only try.

 

[Beanie Girl]

Look at your contract. Bear in mind that if you failto settle and do not have just cause the vendor can keep the deposit in queensland because your contract will normally be time of the essence for completion.

Unless you can prove with date/time stamped photographs and are willing to delay settlement and incur additional legal costs on your part then go ahead and have the argument.

However, for such a small cost, it may be easier to let it slide.

Chiliblue, thanks for your advice. We will definitely settle tomorrow.
I just found out from hubby that my Building Inspector Brett has just gone back to the property and scraped out as much of the leaves as he could with his bare hands from the drains. He said in his usual laconic way, 'I cleared as much as I could'

 

[Beanie Girl]

If the drains were clear one month ago and chock full now then are you going to get them cleared monthly?

Hi Wylie,
Yes, we will put it in the contract for the tenants that they are supposed to clear out the leaves/debris in the drain once a month or whenever they notice that the drains are filling too quickly with leaves/debris.

 

[Beanie Girl]

I put a special condition on offer which goes into the contract that lawns and edges to be done at settlement, and also any rubbish removal requirements (explictly noted for clarity eg all contents in shed and garage). That way its in the contract and cant be argued about later on, and withholding funds is easy.

Just found a screamer of a legal clause that deals with what DaveM above calls 'rubbish removal' but which this clause delicately refers to as 'belongings'

Belongings and junk to be removed

The Sellers must remove all their belongings XE "belongings" from the Property, including: _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _, prior to 9.00am on the last business day before the Settlement Date. If at that time the Buyers are not satisfied that the Sellers have done this, then the Buyers can withhold $__________ from settlement (in the Buyers' Solicitor's Trust Account), and this money can be drawn from trust to pay invoices for the actual costs of disposal of the remaining items, with any money left over then paid to the Sellers.

(NOTES: This clause can be tough on Sellers. It could be used to benefit Buyers, for example, where there are a number of car bodies on the property, or if there is an unusual quantity of "junk". )

 

[alexlee]

Not leaves in gutter but leaves, dirt and debris in shallow drains that the owner excavated all round the front perimeter of the house to prevent water from getting into the groundfloor.

Sorry it sounded petty, just that hubby and I were burnt in a previous IP purchase where trash was left in the house, under and around it. Hard waste trash. And another hole punched in the wall. We were assured by the agent that the owner was mortified his daughter left the place in such a mess and was coming back in a week to clean it up. So on good faith, on settlement day, we paid up everything meekly and held no monies back.. .Surprise, surprise, owner never came back and we are left with the cleaning and hard waste removal bill.

You're equating leaves that you can clear with your hands, and hard waste trash and a hole in the wall?

Did you consider that you were too trusting the last time and now feel compelled to take revenge by gnawing on this?

 

[Terry_w]

Just found a screamer of a legal clause that deals with what DaveM above calls 'rubbish removal' but which this clause delicately refers to as 'belongings'

Belongings and junk to be removed

The Sellers must remove all their belongings XE "belongings" from the Property, including: _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _, prior to 9.00am on the last business day before the Settlement Date. If at that time the Buyers are not satisfied that the Sellers have done this, then the Buyers can withhold $__________ from settlement (in the Buyers' Solicitor's Trust Account), and this money can be drawn from trust to pay invoices for the actual costs of disposal of the remaining items, with any money left over then paid to the Sellers.

(NOTES: This clause can be tough on Sellers. It could be used to benefit Buyers, for example, where there are a number of car bodies on the property, or if there is an unusual quantity of "junk". )

Better make sure the definition of belongings includes leaves and rubbish.

 

[Beanie Girl]

You're equating leaves that you can clear with your hands, and hard waste trash and a hole in the wall?

Did you consider that you were too trusting the last time and now feel compelled to take revenge by gnawing on this?

Alex, as I said earlier, the leaves choking up the front drain can have disastrous consequences for flooding the ground floor. It's actually worse than having hard waste trash and a hole in the wall. At least, the hard waste trash and a hole in the wall just sit inside the house and does no harm to your house when it rains.

Have you been through four weeks of continuous non-stop tropical rains in Brisbane during summer? I have. Were you in Brisbane when all the shelves were empty because people panicked and bought everything they could during the rains and flood of Jan 2011? There was no meat, no eggs, no milk.

We need the rain but too much of it can have devastating consequences.
Why do you think Brett my building inspector scraped up the leaves with his bare hands trying to help us? He knows how potentially dangerous choked drains can be.

 

[alexlee]

Alex, as I said earlier, the leaves choking up the front drain can have disastrous consequences for flooding the ground floor. It's actually worse than having hard waste trash and a hole in the wall. At least, the hard waste trash and a hole in the wall just sit inside the house and does no harm to your house when it rains.

Have you been through four weeks of continuous non-stop tropical rains in Brisbane during summer? I have. Were you in Brisbane when all the shelves were empty because people panicked and bought everything they could during the rains and flood of Jan 2011? There was no meat, no eggs, no milk.

It's an IP, right? Personally, I would seriously reconsider buying a house that might flood if the tenant is careless with cleaning. If all the houses in the area are like that, I'd buy in a different city.

 

[Beanie Girl]

It's an IP, right? Personally, I would seriously reconsider buying a house that might flood if the tenant is careless with cleaning. If all the houses in the area are like that, I'd buy in a different city.

Rochedale South is not in an area that floods. It's not near a river, creek, sea or overland flow path. 99% of it. When it rains it can rain hard and long, storm water drains may not be able to cope. And this can happen in any suburb in any city or town in Australia.

Some of the storm water drains in Melbourne date back to the late 1890s and cannot cope with a fierce prolonged onslaught of rain in a short period of time. Our infrastructure is simply not built to deal with extreme weather events.

 

[Joe D]

BG

Don't stress over a minor issue. The drains you mention are not a vendor issue unless specifically written into the contract. So mow the lawns and clear the drains at your leisure once you are in possession as these will be tax deductible in any event if the property is available for rent.

You have bought an IP you are obviously happy with. Enjoy the settlement experience and the CG this property will bring you over the coming years. Don't stress over minor issues and think big picture.

Let the property settle, find a good tenant and then put a plan in place to ensure that either you or a handyman clear the drains (and gutters) prior to each wet season. (nb: this is not tenant responsibility)

Then sit back, smell the roses and enjoy the rent and CG that this property will give you.

 

[Beanie Girl]

BG

Don't stress over a minor issue. The drains you mention are not a vendor issue unless specifically written into the contract. So mow the lawns and clear the drains at your leisure once you are in possession as these will be tax deductible in any event if the property is available for rent.

You have bought an IP you are obviously happy with. Enjoy the settlement experience and the CG this property will bring you over the coming years. Don't stress over minor issues and think big picture.

Let the property settle, find a good tenant and then put a plan in place to ensure that either you or a handyman clear the drains (and gutters) prior to each wet season. (nb: this is not tenant responsibility)

Then sit back, smell the roses and enjoy the rent and CG that this property will give you.

Thanks Joe D for your calming and thoughtful words

 

[marg4000]

Have you been through four weeks of continuous non-stop tropical rains in Brisbane during summer? I have. Were you in Brisbane when all the shelves were empty because people panicked and bought everything they could during the rains and flood of Jan 2011? There was no meat, no eggs, no milk.
.

Well, we lived through the 1974 AND 2011 floods in here Brisbane and obtaining groceries was never a problem.

And in my 60+ years living in Brisbane I cannot recall four weeks of continuous heavy rain. The rains in 1974 were heavier than 2011, but lasted around 7 days of heavy rain.

Certainly in the flooded areas the supermarkets closed due to damage and lack of power creating problems in nearby suburbs, but as only around 10% of Brisbane was affected then there were no real shortages city wide.
Marg

 

[wylie]

Hi Wylie,
Yes, we will put it in the contract for the tenants that they are supposed to clear out the leaves/debris in the drain once a month or whenever they notice that the drains are filling too quickly with leaves/debris.

Good luck with that one. I believe this is the landlord's responsibility.

 

[Dazz]

we will put it in the contract for the tenants that they are supposed to clear out the leaves/debris in the drain once a month or whenever they notice that the drains are filling too quickly with leaves/debris.

You can put in whatever you want in the contract for lease....and they can sign it....but that don't mean diddly squat if any of those conditions undermine or contravene any and all of the massive rights afforded to residential Tenants via the RTA.

http://www.rta.qld.gov.au/Renting/During-a-tenancy/Maintenance-and-repairs/Drains-and-gutters

As other investors have pointed out above, it'll be in your lap, not theirs.

Looking at the attached link, there is no way as a Landlord you will be able to impose a condition to force the Tenants to clear the drains of leaf litter or anything else, unless you can clearly demonstrate they purposefully put something in them to block it....and even then it's only a "may".

Leaves innocently falling from trees and blowing in there with the assistance of the wind doesn't cut the mustard.

Your initial question, concerning lawns growing and leaves falling between contract and settlement is quite extra-ordinary, as other investors have also pointed out.

I'd humbly suggest perusing the sharemarket instead.

 

[depreciator]

Why do you think Brett my building inspector scraped up the leaves with his bare hands trying to help us? He knows how potentially dangerous choked drains can be.

Putting aside chasing up the money to clear some leaves, what are your plans to deal with this? It's great information to have. You are going to have to take charge and get someone around regularly to clear those drains. No point putting any sort of a directive in a lease or anything like that. If clear drains are essential for that property, YOU will need to make sure they are clear.

 

[Beanie Girl]

SUCCESS! $250 deducted from the purchase price!

Hello everybody, we were successful in our legal request to have 250 deducted from the purchase price to clear the drains and mow the lawns.
The conveyancer wrote the request to the owner's soliciter.
The owner's solicter thought it was a fair and reasonable request given the owners were in the US and passed the request onto the owners.

The owners were happy to pay that amount for maintenance as they recognised they had been in the US for some time.
In fact, they were shocked but pleased that the amount we were asking for was so little.

The owners thought it was a very reasonable request and granted it, no dramas.

RESULT: HAPPY OUTCOME FOR ALL

 

[Dazz]

....for today - yes.

Now for the future.

The real question for you though is what are you going to do to tackle the impost on your future yield with the added expense of clearing the drain that you fret about.

Can you on-pass it to Tenants via higher rents, or will you take a hit every week on your yield because no prospective Tenant will pay you that little bit extra to cover the cost to clear the drains frequently.

Given my very limited experiences, I'd bet on the latter option.