shanghai real estate

Has anyone heard whether it is possible for Mainland Chinese (non-Australian residents) to buy Australian Real Estate? If so, how do they do it? My initial research suggests it is very hard to do because most people can't get their money out to Australia and also Chinese laws regarding this are confusing, contridictory and vary from region to region. However, I have heard it is happening under the radar and that Mainland Chinese are very interested in Australian property with a view to further investing here.
 
Zap,

Foreigners are allowed to buy new properties - FIRB are who you should look up.

Mainland Chinese are able to draw on some interesting networks of local people, so I'm sure they have many different avenues to acquire control (if not ownership) of other Australian real estate.

Cheers,

Aceyducey
 
Although it is "officially" impossible to wire money out of China (you can always wire in), there are lots of underground banks that help you repatriate fund in and out, in whatever currency you desire, for a fee, of course. There is a risk of these underground outfits running away with your money, but hey, that is how you get things done in a lawless country. That's also exactly how most mainland Chinese migrating to or studying in Australia manage to get their money out of China.

I personally used an underground bank to help repatriate fund out of China when I liquidated my stinky realty investments (the worst I have done in my life in any kind, not due to my own fault) in Shanghai. It turned out to be very efficient. I wired money into their designated account in China first, they took off 2.5%, and wired the equivalent USD amount into my bank account in Singapore, the transaction was complete within 2 hours.
 
China real estate just got 2.1% more expensive a few hours ago.

Why? See this link: http://www.economist.com/agenda/displayStory.cfm?story_id=4199196&fsrc=RSS

My website greenmonkey.com.cn has been listed by Economist.com in their Shanghai guide section. It is the only privately-owned business-related website about Shanghai that they decided to list. Any advertisers out there?

p.s. More updates on Zhuhai soon.

p.s.s. Will respond to the new messages here soon(ish).
 
Apologies for not answering everyone's questions yet and not setting up the Zhuhai colomn...the reason being, unfortunately, that I was hastily snapped up to work for a large Australasian investment company, given a large salary, and shifted back down-under. Anyone following this column previously can follow this link to another post for a very unique Beijing investment offer: http://www.somersoft.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22611

Best,

GreenMonkey
 
Dear All and GreenMonkey,

Please see the u/m news reported in the Singapore Business Times newspapers regarding faulty property titles and titles fraud related risks.
_________________________________________________________________
Business Times - 01 Nov 2005
Investors in China face false title risk
But foreign firms say higher potential returns compensate for the extra risk

(HONG KONG) Investors in China should be wary of inaccurate property titles, analysts say, especially as funds and property companies hunt for Chinese buildings that could be sold to real estate investment trusts (Reits).

A private property market has been flourishing in China for a little over a decade since state firms stopped providing homes for their workers. The communist party enshrined the right to own private property in the constitution last year, and now the government is trying to bring order to the young market through land auctions.

But investors are encountering titles falsified by corrupt officials, or plots of land with competing land-use rights, and even titles nullified by courts after previous owners were found to have obtained the land fraudulently.

Untangling lease titles, called 'land use rights', after property has changed hands several times can be confusing. In some cases, authorities have confiscated property on the grounds that it was originally obtained corruptly, because the wrong government agency issued the title, or for fake documentation.

'It's more of a mystery than anything,' said Wit Solberg, head of Asia structured finance at Fitch Ratings.

'If there's been some fraudulent exchange with officials and someone shines the spotlight on it one day, what happens?'

Land title fraud is just one of the possible pitfalls property investors face in China, along with fast changing government policies on land and development, and courts that are often seen as arbitrary on issues such as foreclosure.

But with a booming economy and urbanisation promising big returns on apartments, offices and shops, many investors are undeterred despite the risks.

A survey of 180 banks and fund managers in Europe, Asia and North America, released last week by consultants DTZ, showed that China had overtaken Japan as the top destination in Asia for property investors.

Firms such as Singapore's CapitaLand Ltd and Australia's Macquarie Bank are eager to package Chinese buildings into Reits to meet the demand for tradeable securities based on property in China.

Insurers have lobbied regulators in Hong Kong, which is expected to be a major market for Chinese Reits, to make title insurance mandatory as it is in the United States.

But after consultations with property industry executives, Hong Kong's Securities and Futures Commission (SFC) decided not to change its Reit code, which stipulates that trusts should carry out thorough due diligence on titles.

'The general response that we received on this issue was that this requirement would be onerous and impracticable,' an SFC spokesman said. 'The costs might be prohibitive and the coverage of the insurance might be subject to various carve-outs.'

The cost of title insurance in China will probably be on a par with Eastern Europe, or about 0.35 per cent of the capital value of a building, compared with just 0.06 per cent in many cases in the United States.

Alison Cooke, Hong Kong representative for First American Title Insurance Co, said buyers of Chinese buildings face their greatest risk during a 'registration-gap period' when down-payments are made but new land-use certificates have not yet been issued. 'There is potential for fraud of the one-seller, two-buyers type during this period,' she said.

But foreign property companies that have operated in China since the early 1990s say the extra risks are part of doing business in the country, and higher potential returns compensate for the added risk.

'Definitely, the risk is there, but the question is, do you want to take it?' said Wen Kai Meng, chief executive of CapitaLand Financial Ltd, which structures deals for CapitaLand.

'By the time you insure everything away, you might as well stay in the United States.' - Reuters

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

For your kind update, please.
Thank you.

regards,
Kenneth KOH
 
Big bump to this thread.

I'm in Shanghai at the moment, come here every couple of years or so and can't believe the recent growth which has occurred.

I thought the run had ended when this thread was started 5 years ago.
Property prices had quite a boom up until 5 years ago.
I really thought it would flatten or even reverse.

But, the story is, prices have more than tripled from the all time high in the last 5 years !!!
I find this unbelievable, but it's true.

Apartments are approaching and even exceeding prices paid in Sydney.
This is a real shock, as incomes are far far behind ours.
Also, rental yields are terrible, interest rates here are about the same as in Aus.

I really don't know what's fuelling this massive growth.
Don't know how it could be sustained.

Does anybody else have information on the Shanghai property market and what they think will happen?


By the way, the development of massive buildings (offices and apartments), roads, overhead highways, massive shopping complexes are still going ahead like absolute crazy, rippling all the way out from the centre.
 
Big bump to this thread.

I'm in Shanghai at the moment, come here every couple of years or so and can't believe the recent growth which has occurred.

I thought the run had ended when this thread was started 5 years ago.
Property prices had quite a boom up until 5 years ago.
I really thought it would flatten or even reverse.

But, the story is, prices have more than tripled from the all time high in the last 5 years !!!
I find this unbelievable, but it's true.

Apartments are approaching and even exceeding prices paid in Sydney.
This is a real shock, as incomes are far far behind ours.
Also, rental yields are terrible, interest rates here are about the same as in Aus.

I really don't know what's fuelling this massive growth.
Don't know how it could be sustained.

Does anybody else have information on the Shanghai property market and what they think will happen?


By the way, the development of massive buildings (offices and apartments), roads, overhead highways, massive shopping complexes are still going ahead like absolute crazy, rippling all the way out from the centre.


i'm not sure foreigners can buy real estate in china?
 
Hi, greenmonkey,
Can you comment on the following? I'm interested to know if the property is good or bad.

In 03, I put a $5K deposit on Apt 18, 8th floor, 1 Park Ave. It was marketed simultaneously in Singapore, HK & Shanghai.

The price was $173 thousand USD and full deposit in USD from take up. There was a loan through one of the offshore banks but in USD.

The next day I got cold feet & pulled out. There was no problem & Keppel Bank returned the $5K deposit immediately. Told me all units sold out.

Of course, I know that that investment would probably have trebled!!

So I'm extremely interested in your views about 1 Park Ave. It was marketed as the Orchard Rd of Shanghai as it's only a street away from the Bund. It was built by KeppelLand I think.

What would the price be today?

KY
 
you'd probably only invest your money there if you could afford to lose the whole lot. It's not as if you can really trust the Chinese with their rampant speculation (unless you're on the pulse and get out before any crash)
 
Kum Yin,

do you know how big the apartment was as typically property in China gets quoted in ¥ per square meter. So you can work out the ¥ per square meter cost back in 2003.

I have checked a couple of websites and the price on sale are between ¥35,000 - ¥42,000 per square meter for 1 Park Avenue.

Also, just want to point out that 1 Park Ave is in Jingan district (official address is Lane 500 Changde Road Jingan district) so it is not going to be one street away from the Bund. Unless there is another 1 park avenue that I am not aware of.

It was marketed as the Orchard Rd of Shanghai as it's only a street away from the Bund.

Where did you get your facts from?
 
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