Should I ask the tenants to leave?

[MsAli]

Hi All,

The tenants of my most recently acquired property agreed to get it painted and new blinds put in.

First painter could get through for quotes. The second painter came all the way from upper North Shore to Western Sydney but the tenants didn't show up and wouldn't take phone calls. So the painter was able to give me a quote in line with the first one.

Now that the painter's PA tries to get in touch with them they wouldn't pick up their phone or respond to voice mails. When PM calls they are very nice and say they are happy to get the place fixed up.

I'm considering if I should get the property vacated though timing for that can be tricky whether the painter is available at the time the tenants leave (notice period = 90 days).

The reason I want the place fixed up is the value has improved around 17%-21% since the acquisition last May. I can't really access equity without getting these works done. Hence it seriously impedes my ability to move forward with my next purchase.

Also if they are causing issues with this, they will have issues with valuations.

I feel bad asking them to vacate, but then if they agreed to something they shouldn't play hardball.

Thoughts?

Cheers,

MsAli

 

[weg]

If you wanted it painted, then why didn't you have it painted before they moved in when you knew you wanted it done?

Painting the whole internal of the house is a BIG inconvenience, especially as it's not something they want done, and am not surprised they have changed their minds.

Offering free rent could sway them - you'd be out of pocket anyway if you evicted them and it were to be vacant for 2 to 3 weeks while you painted.

 

[Rolf Latham]

On a separate but related issue

Id expect that a valuer will see through a couple of coats of paint if the place is worth 20 % more, in fact my experience is that unless the property condition is currently WELL below par, you'd be struggling to get your paint $ back out .

ta
rolf

 

[geoffw]

So you would like to evict the tenants because, in effect, they won't let you disrupt their lives in a major way?

There may well be legal problems with this- at minimum it's unfair on them.

Work with them, and be patient. A rent free period may be helpful- it will cost you less than a vacancy with all associated relet fees.

If the value has gone up, you should have some value to work with. It shouldn't stop you accessing the equity that you have.

 

[nhg]

I had the same problem,

I don't believe the valuer will be particularly concerned with the condition of the paint, the way the valuation report is set out, I would say it has more to do with the no. of rooms, living areas, garage etc. as oppose to, nice carpets, fresh paint.

Save your dollars. Your problem may be convincing them to let a valuer through the property.

 

[MsAli]

Guys,

They agreed to the painting and have done so over and over again to the PM. However they just won't respond to the painter. I don't want them to have agreed a time and then not show up for the dates. I will be the one charged.

I reckon if they are giving this hard time to be gotten hold of, they will not a valuer through either.

I do think the place needs a freshen up with paint and blinds and this will impact the valuation.

I regret not doing this upon settlement.

 

[DaveM]

Get the painter to go through the PM. That way its all done through one contact and there is a record by the PM of who agreed to what and the terms/timeframes are.

 

[MsAli]

Get the painter to go through the PM. That way its all done through one contact and there is a record by the PM of who agreed to what and the terms/timeframes are.

Thanks Dave. But if they agree with PM and don't show up and I get charged the fee - what can I do? Wary of that as the painter's PA has warned me about this.

I was even happy to give them rent free week but before I could offer that they had agreed and showed extreme "keenness" as per the PM.

 

[wylie]

I'm with the others about whether the value will be increased because of new paint. You can ask RightValue from the forum, but in my experience, valuers are looking past things like fresh paint. (If you paint lipstick on a pig, it's still a pig )

I'm not saying that to offend you, or call your house a pig, but I believe valuers will look at the area, the amenities, the actual "bones" of the house, number of bedrooms, bathrooms, car spaces etc.

I'd book the valuer, give the appropriate notice, and take the valuer through anyway. If you use one of the $99 valuers that are discussed on here as being available through some banks, then you can also ask him "what would be the difference if I paint through?" If he says it will increase the valuation by $10K and you really need to squeeze every last cent out, then you can give the tenants notice to leave and paint it through.

It just sounds like they are going to be difficult, and why bang your head against a wall, especially if it is unnecessary.

 

[MsAli]

Wylie, point noted. I will have to wait a few weeks may be more for settled sales to reflect the new value...so prefer if the place is fixed up in the time being.

And I really feel that they won't let a valuer through just yet. So I will be seeing if the PM can be the contact in between for the works to begin with.

 

[westminster]

Thanks Dave. But if they agree with PM and don't show up and I get charged the fee - what can I do? Wary of that as the painter's PA has warned me about this.

I was even happy to give them rent free week but before I could offer that they had agreed and showed extreme "keenness" as per the PM.

forgive me if I'm wrong but if they do it through the PM and have given appropriate notice and the tenant agrees then the PM can let them into the dwelling.

Book the valuer as well - the PM can let the valuer in.

 

[geoffw]

A valuer who is in for 20 minutes and painters who are in for days are two different things. Especially as the impact of painting will be felt for days afterward.

If the PM gives propery notice there shouldn't be a problem.

But just in case- is there an inspection due soon?

 

[MsAli]

westminster, I wasn't aware if PM can let the painter into the dwelling ?

Geoffw, don't think so. The PM just did one like last month....

Also how is getting a valuer worth it? The loan is with STG and they are so helpful, they don't take any valuations but the ones they order. May be brokers have a way around?

 

[ZachAnSel]

Hi MsAli,

Without knowing where is your location I try to made few questions.
Based on my exp - at least it will takes 1-3 days before the paint completely dry and so gone the smell.

1. If you ask tenant to vacate, how easy to get the new one with higher rent - good idea if you can approach PM and ask her/him how many people waiting on their list?
2. Is it will cause big impact to your cashflow?
3. How possible you ask independent valuer to come on day 4?

thanks

 

[MsAli]

Spoke with PM, who said that we can send the tenants an access order letter to give access to painter in the next 7 days and then the property can be entered by the PM. But I thought that's useless as we have to consider the painter's schedule. And why force it on someone.

PM said the tenant has advised he cannot let the painter know of his availability now. He can only ever tell 1 week in advance if he is available. It's strange as initially they had said to the PM that we need ample notice and that's why I wanted them contacted prior to the Easter long weekend.

PM said that I don't have to give reasons for notice to the tenants to vacate. If I decide she can go to the property and drop the letter in the mail box with a 90 days notice (as otherwise 4 days postage wont be counted during the weekend and we'd lose 8 days). Though the tenants can just come hand keys any time without notice in those 90 days. They aren't obliged to tell us but that 9/10 times they do tell when they are leaving. So that is the downside with low chance.

I will be doing my numbers tonight before making a final decision.

 

[fisherman]

You need to do your numbers on this going completely off the rails too.

Renovation is not the same as repair and effecting longer repairs can be problematical as well.

How do you get on if forthcoming tenant/s agreement only extends to getting the work part done and then the tenant/s want to see you in the tribunal for hurt money and relief from renovation for quiet enjoyment of the property, while having grossly diminished rent for an unfinished house for the reminder of the time they want to stay?

What was agreed prior to signing the lease could be regarded by the tribunal as an irrelevancy and unreasonable, and the tenant/s inalienable right to quiet enjoyment (without renovation) is paramount.

 

[MsAli]

Thanks fisherman. Good points. I'd rather have the property vacant to have the works done.

 

[Truly Exotic]

Unfortunately its a catch22

You kick them out, it takes you 1 week to paint, half a week to clean up, 1-2 weeks to find a new tenant to move in, thats 3 weeks from the time they left at a higher rent

You let them stay, and you have to compensate them or hotel them, they feel entitled to have no rent increase due to the inconveience, reno takes a bit longer because they have all their stuff inside, all at the lower rent

You'll have to assess each situation on their individual merits

 

[MsAli]

Thanks Truly Exotic. Just did my numbers. It will be better to get it renovated for the mid to long term.

 

[BeYourOwnAgent]

The tenants are not obliged to allow access unless they agree, or it's for maintenance (painting would not be seen as this)

Any magistrate would look very, very unfavourably on you trying to terminate the lease due to non access for cosmetic work for your financial benefit.

In fact, I'd suggest against even trying, as the magistrate will most probably award against you, and in favor of the tenants with a financial sum attached (ie you will have to compensate the tenant)

As other people have suggested, it would be a good idea to offer them a rent free period (generally for the amount of time they will need to move out to facilitate painting + 1 week)