Smoke alarm compliance

[Wishlist]

Thanks for your post Lura. Having input from a PM is valuable. Keep it up.

The logistics of testing the smoke alarms properly pushes the role of the property manager into the role of a handyman.

I agree with Lura.

As a Landlord I considered doing the task myself but realised that traipsing over to a rental property, even if it is close by, is going to take at least an hour of my time, and if the lease is renewed every 6 months then that is twice a year. $90 starts to look like a reasonable deal, as most of those agencies offer testing for a complete year, no matter how many times the lease is renewed.

Another option might be to get a good handyman to do it along with other maintenance when they are at the premises. The legislation doesn't appear to require specialist services to do the testing.

 

[Wishlist]

Thanks for your post Lura. Having input from a PM is valuable. Keep it up.

The logistics of testing the smoke alarms properly pushes the role of the property manager into the role of a handyman.

I agree with Lura.

As a Landlord I considered doing the task myself but realised that traipsing over to a rental property, even if it is close by, is going to take at least an hour of my time, and if the lease is renewed every 6 months then that is twice a year. $90 starts to look like a reasonable deal, as most of those companies offer testing for a complete year, no matter how many times the lease is renewed. Not all companies charge that much though. Some are around $70.

Another option might be to get your handyman to do it along with appropriately timed other maintenance when they are at the premises. The legislation doesn't appear to require specialist services to do the testing.

 

[lura]

Thanks for your post Lura. Having input from a PM is valuable. Keep it up.



I agree with Lura.

As a Landlord I considered doing the task myself but realised that traipsing over to a rental property, even if it is close by, is going to take at least an hour of my time, and if the lease is renewed every 6 months then that is twice a year. $90 starts to look like a reasonable deal, as most of those companies offer testing for a complete year, no matter how many times the lease is renewed. Not all companies charge that much though. Some are around $70.

Another option might be to get your handyman to do it along with appropriately timed other maintenance when they are at the premises. The legislation doesn't appear to require specialist services to do the testing.

Your welcome Wishlist, I'm happy to help.

Lu

 

[Louwai]

So you are saying that fire alarms purchase from a reputable source (ie: Bunnings etc) with the appropriate Australian Standard endorsed on them don't work?

Gee, thats shocking...you should write a letter to your local consumer affairs agency to inform them of the fact that smoke alarms are being sold with AS3786-93 compliance stickers when in fact they don't work!

Of course Photoelectric and Ionising detectors have different roles to play. If you read the packaging on any of the ones I've looked at, they recommend where that particular kind of alarm should be placed (ie: cooking areas vs sleeping areas etc)

Murphy

It's the old conspiracy theory.....
You are correct, the current units available do comply to the STD, but the actual STD is not suitable. There is even an advisor to the AU STD board that has been lobbying to the rest of them to get the STD changed due to it's inadequecy.
Authaurities won't acknowledge Ionisation unit inadequecy for fear of litigation because they have been recomending them for yrs.

Ionising type may be recomended on the box for the bedroom, or away from cooking, but factual tests show that they actually do not detect smouldering fires. These are usually the types of fires that start in the bedroom or lounge room.
Tests clearly show an Ionisation unit in a covered glass container with a smouldering fire & it does not activate. The smoke is so thick you can not see through the glass container yet the Ionizing detector does not activate. This is the toxic smoke from a smouldering mattress or similar.
A Photoelectric unit dropped into the same container activates within seconds.
The same Ionisation unit is removed from the glass container of thick smoke & then held over a toaster & it activates straight away.

So from that factual test, it's obvious that a smouldering fire presents no danger, but a toaster does.

I know which "smoke" detectors I'd prefer.

 

[Jen_PFR]

Interesting to read all the different info that's available. WA has only recently passed smoke alarm legislation for all properties. All properties that are to be sold must have a hard-wired smoke alarm fitted or the sale can't happen (ie. property can't settle). Proof needs to be provided to the settlement agent through provision of a certificate by a licensed sparky. In places where a hard-wired smoke alarm can't be fitted (eg. ground floor units, where there isn't a ceiling cavity to run wiring through) a smoke alarm with a ten-year lithium battery is required.

The same legislation also states that rental leases can't be renewed (or new leases signed) unless the above is done. This is a less regulated area however, as there is always the private tenancy market which doesn't have formal leases, register bonds etc.

As an aside, I had a unit ten years ago which completely burned out due to the electrical circuit being overloaded (a single pp had a double adaptor off it, both sides of the double adaptor had powerboards running off it). Fortunately I was insured to the hilt, but the poor tenant (who was unemployed) lost everything except his life - he was out for the night, luckily for him.

 

[KateMelb]

And a word from a landlord

Landlords are absolutely responsible for installing and maintaining smoke alarms, although tenants can be obliged under a special condition of their lease to ensure the batteries are periodically changed.

While it is compulsory for all Victorian investment properties to be fitted with smoke alarms, there is no requirement for an independent "inspection service". The agent or landlord should simply check smoke alarms are working (by pressing the tester switch) whenever an inspection occurs. Pushing a tester button on a smoke detector is not, in my view, a specialised service that merits a seperate investment by a landlord. If that button doesn't make a noise and a new battery doesn't remedy that, then that is grounds for specialised assistance.

The inspection service makes no difference to a landlord's insurance policies - it is simply the PM seeking to shift any liability from it to the inspection company or landlord in the extremely rare event of a destructive fire that could have been better contained had the smoke alarm been working.

Third party inspection is not mandatory and is, in my opinion, a waste of money.

 

[handyandy]

Hi All

Has anybody come across a combined ionization/photoelectric 240v with battery and emergency light type smoke alarm?

I have found these without the 240v option but just can't seem to find all these feature with the 240v feature. I would settle for all minus the ionization feature.

I think its particularly functional to have an emergency light incorporated as these will be installed in hallways without windows and as such are naturally dark and obviously more so at night. This is off course on the basis that the light works both the smoke alarm is activated and/or failure of mains power.

Maybe I am just designing a new product

Cheers

 

[NBS]

For me fire safety is high and in my current renovation I have 5 detectors installed inclusive of one in each bedroom they will be photoelectric and will all activate if one should go off.

All these will have battery backup, yes it will cost me 5 batteries at each change but a very small cost for a life.

As for testing etc, I will do that, yes it will cost me but I will cope that at this stage, if things change I will consider passing this to others.

Brian

 

[wylie]

I saw something on the telly a few months back where they had people in a monitored sleep environment and set off the smoke detectors. It was testing the pitch of the "beep beep".

The high pitched ones we all use didn't wake the sleeping people. When they used a lower pitch, they woke up.

Did anybody else see it. I would like to know if these lower pitch detectors are available. After watching the segment, I would add the lower pitched ones as well as the ones we have hard wired.

 

[kissfan]

I've heard conflicting reports about the type of smoke alarm required (in NSW). Does anyone know whether the alarms have to be hardwired or are the battery type still permitted?

Regards
Marty

 

[handyandy]

The whole smoke alarm thing seems like a gross waste of time!!!!! What is the point of installing smoke alarms when the tenants then tamper with them to make them inoperative yet there is no penalty as a consequence of this action.

Had some maintenance done on a property today.

Received a report back that the hardwired smoke alarm in the property has been unplug from its caddy, battery removed and said smoke alarm is now sitting on top of the bathroom cabinet

So who is responsible? The landlord for not being there every day to plug the smoke alarm back in or maybe, just maybe it should be the tenant who can't be bothered reporting that they can't handle inserting a new battery (if that was the case).

It is not unusual to walk around the area and hear smoke alarms chirping as the last of the batteries are running down and the owner/tenant hasn't the brains to replace the battery to stop the chirping.

The laws are only good if people participate.

Cheers

PS Mind you this tenant also used the toilet to dispose of feminine hygiene products then complained that the toilet was no longer flushing!!! That's going to cost her $140

 

[KateMelb]

Received a report back that the hardwired smoke alarm in the property has been unplug from its caddy, battery removed and said smoke alarm is now sitting on top of the bathroom cabinet

If tenants are doing this to smoke detectors, then during inspections landlords or their agents should take photos of a disassembled unit, then fix the alarm so it’s working again and finally send a formal letter or email to the tenant, reminding them not to interfere with any smoke detector.

This way, if there is ever a damaging fire that is attributed to a dysfunctional smoke detector, landlords can protect themselves from liability by demonstrating they have acted reasonably to ensure a detector was working.

 

[Psyk]

Has anyone confirmed the legislation for Victoria?

I heard that the current legislation are that the landlord is responsible to change smoke detector batteries upon commencement of any new lease & then the tenant is responsible to change the battery yearly and notify the landlord/agent if a smoke detector becomes faulty.

However, the new legislation is that the landlord will be responsible to have a qualified person check that smoke detectors are working properly including changing the batteries, cleaning, correct decibels etc.

Anyone know when this new legislation takes effect?

 

[wylie]

Do you have a link to the new legislation? Where did you hear about it?

 

[Psyk]

Do you have a link to the new legislation? Where did you hear about it?

My property manager just sent through a form from Fire Protection Authority Australia (FPAA) working in conjunction with Smarthouse Fire Solutions (www.smarthousefire.com) which mentions the following near the bottom in bold:

"If you elect NOT to be a part of this service, you acknowledge that as the the landlord YOU are responsble for ensuring smoke alarms are correctly located, smoke alarms are in correct working order and that YOU will maintan the smoke alarm(s) on an annual basis in accordance with all relevant regulations and manufacturer specifications, including appropriate testing of the smoke alarms. <Prop manager> will in no way be held responsible for the maintenance of smoke alarms in your rental property (s) and will have no responsibility associated with or for, any claims associated with smoke alarms in your investment property/s. If you elect NO, it is your responsibility to provide this office with appropriate documentation annually stating when alarms have been maintained by whom and what has been done during the service."

Apparently Smarthouse will check the property's every year for a fee...

Anyone else receive this?

 

[alplant]

I think all RE's are sending out this sort of message. I guess they don't want to be held responsible if something goes wrong and by paying a third party to check the smoke alarms it sort of shifts the responsibility away from the landlord and the PM.

The legislation here in Queensland (last time I read it) states that the landlord has to check the alarm and change batteries at the start of a new tenancy but after that the tenant is responsible. So no third party is needed really but like a lot of other people we pay someone to maintain the alarms just because it gives us the appearance of a guarantee of sorts.

In reality it doesn't do that at all. For instance, my OH recently was at one of our IP's doing some maintenance and noticed the smoke alarm hanging from the ceiling with the batteries removed, and this was just a week or so after an inspection by the smoke alarm maintenance people.

 

[chilliblue]

Just as a matter of interest, what is stop an agent/landlord to:

1. state in the ingoing inspection report that the smoke alarms were in working order,

2. the tenant signs acceptance of same,

3. tenant issued new batteries to install into alarm and signs agreement that it is their responsibility to advise the landlord during the tenancy if the alarm does not work.

Surely that would cover any legislation.

 

[Psyk]

Just as a matter of interest, what is stop an agent/landlord to:

1. state in the ingoing inspection report that the smoke alarms were in working order,

2. the tenant signs acceptance of same,

3. tenant issued new batteries to install into alarm and signs agreement that it is their responsibility to advise the landlord during the tenancy if the alarm does not work.

Surely that would cover any legislation.

That's my question too?

Is there some sort of new legislation (i.e. legal) change in regards to managing smoke detectors for tenants? My PM has been managing them in the past but this seems to suggest that only a qualified person is able to check, test and replace smoke alarms including batteries from whenever this new legislation takes place.

 

[BV]

After the tenancy begins, the tenant is responsible for replacing the battery if needed.

Except in the case of hardwired alarms which have a backup battery. In that particular instance it is the landlord's responsibility to change the battery(in NSW).

So this means that you either let the agent send his mates over to test it for $99 plus another $30 or so for new batteries or you do it yourself and keep a log which you get the tenant to sign yearly.

I prefer the log book option.


"The tenant is not responsible for the replacement of batteries in ‘hard-wired’ smoke alarm systems that have battery back-up. This is the responsibility of the landlord."

http://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/Tenants_and_home_owners/Being_a_landlord/Smoke_alarms.html

 

[BV]

I'm attaching a copy of the log I'm using.
You can have a binder with dividers (1 section for each property)