smoke alarms

[camo100]

Hi,
Should a property manager test the smoke alarm during inspections, or record that they were working and in place during the inspection.

I have rental and I have been there a few times...everytime the bloody tenants have taken the smoke alarm down.

Basically what I am saying is if the tenants have removed it or taken the batteries out of it
shouldn't the PM issue them with a breach or something like that.

I am just worried that if something happens and the smoke alarm isn't working the insurance will not pay or will find reasons not to pay.

I am aware it has to be working before a lease starts but what about during the lease???

Cheers

Camo

 

[The Fence]

Search the forum for smoke alarms, there is a plethora of discussing regarding.

 

[priscilla]

Hi,
Should a property manager test the smoke alarm during inspections, or record that they were working and in place during the inspection.

I have rental and I have been there a few times...everytime the bloody tenants have taken the smoke alarm down.

Basically what I am saying is if the tenants have removed it or taken the batteries out of it
shouldn't the PM issue them with a breach or something like that.

I am just worried that if something happens and the smoke alarm isn't working the insurance will not pay or will find reasons not to pay.

I am aware it has to be working before a lease starts but what about during the lease???

Cheers

Camo

There is no way we would test a smoke alarm during an inspection as to test it properly involves simulated smoke, checking location expiry dates etc etc and has WHS issues however the PM should be advising the tenants not to interfere with the smoke alarm because that is a breach

http://www.rta.qld.gov.au/Resources/Fact-Sheets/General-tenancy-fact-sheets/Smoke-alarms-fact-sheet

 

[mattysavager]

We do not 'test' smoke alarms for the reasons Priscilla mentioned, however if we notice that the tenant has tampered with it, they are breached.

I did a bank valuation at a property yesterday - and the tenants had put a plastic shower cap over the smoke alarm. I pulled it down, left it on the floor, and they got emailed a breach.

As long as you have engaged a company to test and clean them as required, you have satisfied your obligation.

The agent has a duty of care to take action if they notice that they have been tampered with/taken down at any inspections that are carried out. Beyond that, there's nothing you can do, as the tenants will do what they want in between inspections.

Matt

 

[Lil Skater]

I don't test either, it's the tenants responsibility to make sure batteries are change and at inspections I ask if they've tested it.

These rules are about to change though..

 

[Aaron_C]

Just hard wired my smoke alarms and EVEN then I need it tested every 6 months. What a joke.

 

[The Fence]

I did a bank valuation at a property yesterday - and the tenants had put a plastic shower cap over the smoke alarm. I pulled it down, left it on the floor, and they got emailed a breach.


Matt

Slightly off topic, but just quickly, do email notifications count as formal enough or must you always write and post in the mail system?

Im sure in NSW we are never to count on email as a notification method for when things come to push & shove like breach etc.

 

[S.T]

There is no way we would test a smoke alarm during an inspection as to test it properly involves simulated smoke, checking location expiry dates etc etc and has WHS issues however the PM should be advising the tenants not to interfere with the smoke alarm because that is a breach

http://www.rta.qld.gov.au/Resources/Fact-Sheets/General-tenancy-fact-sheets/Smoke-alarms-fact-sheet

Hey Priscilla, where does it say in that link that you must use simulated smoke to test? I have searched all it states is the test button or follow manufactuers instructions, I've checked instructions for ones I've purchased and they all say "Press test button", they dont mention simulated smoke. Just curious where you got that information from.

 

[russellpeter]

we test and take a photo of the alarm for our records.

most of our proprieties the alarms are taken care of by Smoke alarm solutions so we are not testing for location or if they will go off with smoke,

but we like to make sure they are working and still on the ceiling. peace of mind. and if anything does go wrong it shows we have done everything in our power to make sure we are compliant.

we also have in the lease that its the tenants responsibility to maintain them during the tenancy.

 

[Lil Skater]

Russell, how do you test them? Do you carry a ladder to each property, or borrow a broom?

Silly question I know.

 

[S.T]

Further reading into the QLD legislation my take on it is :

If landlord provided a recipt of purchase of smoke alarm with noted the service life and a PM was to make sure there was no audible alarm (flat or nearly flat battery) and borrowed a broom or a "smoke alarm testing piece of wood" to press the test button when renewing a lease or placing a new tenant thats really all thats required to comply.

Thats my simplistic take on it?

I tend to bang on about this smoke alarm stuff, but I get a bit cheesed off with money for jam type services. For the record, I do my own tests using smoke, pressing buttons and checking the service life.

 

[mattysavager]

Thats my simplistic take on it?

Your 'simplistic' take is correct - that is all that is required. What you are paying for is not just the man to go and test it a few times a year and replace batteries (which at $79pa including batteries and replacement alarms for expired ones is very cheap, considering an electrician callout fee alone is like $90), but you are also paying for their professional indemnity insurance.

If the property burns down and the tenants die, you point the finger at Smoke Alarm Solutions and their insurance pays.

Otherwise, the insurance companies pick holes in your testing and documenting methods, and ask questions about your methods and reliability.

I happily pay the $79 personally.

 

[mattysavager]

Slightly off topic, but just quickly, do email notifications count as formal enough or must you always write and post in the mail system?

In QLD leases, the tenants sign and agree to receive formal notices by email.

We always post copies once we email them, however I prefer email as I can prove that it was sent, and I can show that the tenant uses that email account (if it came to court), so I know they received it. It also allows me to make sure all separate tenants on a lease get to see a copy.

Otherwise you have to rely on a mail outgoing log, which is just a handwritten ledger book (we don't even do it any more due to the volume of letters sent) or diary notes.

 

[mattysavager]

I am aware it has to be working before a lease starts but what about during the lease???

One more point - they must be tested and cleaned at each lease renewal too.

Our office does not charge for lease renewals at all. If we had to send someone to every lease renewal with a ladder and/or stick, we would need to start charging. It would be cheaper to pay Smoke Alarm Solutions to do it than to pay us.

Last calendar year our office RENEWED 947 leases (not including new tenants moving in). That would have meant 947 extra trips to properties with a ladder and stick. Not to mention the liability to the business for taking on this litigious issue.

They do need to be done at new leases, as well as lease renewals. The companies mentioned include this in the annual charge, and we simply notify them when the alarms are due.

 

[The Fence]

Our office does not charge for lease renewals at all. If we had to send someone to every lease renewal with a ladder and/or stick, we would need to start charging.

So no inspection at renewal of lease at all...?

 

[S.T]

Otherwise, the insurance companies pick holes in your testing and documenting methods, and ask questions about your methods and reliability.

They can pick away as much as they like, as long as I am complying with regulations it should not matter.

Sorry, just saw your post about cleaning, fair point I missed that in original fact sheet link. That would require ladder access.

 

[S.T]

So do smoke alarm solutions (or other providers in QLD) just provide you with the minimal service for compliance? Will they only come out within 30 days before the start or renewal of the tenancy?

Seems the tenant is responsible for on going maintenace, battery replacement, testing and cleaning during the tenancy.

Ah answered my own question

http://www.smokealarmsolutions.com.au/SERVICES-PRICING

Smoke Alarm Servicing

Queensland
After our initial visit, we will re-attend the property at every tenancy change and lease renewal to comply with the Queensland Fire and Rescue Service Act 2006.

that is their service in QLD

 

[russellpeter]

Russell, how do you test them? Do you carry a ladder to each property, or borrow a broom?

Silly question I know.

we use half of a pool stick

we do it because we are in the property every 4 months and it takes 2 min to take a photos and push the button. peace of mind that its working.

its not a complacency thing more a common sense and most of our owners use smoke alarm solutions or maintain there alarms themselves

 

[camo100]

I was just reading Mattsavagers thread about insurance companies picking holes in the documentation (in th event something happens)
I test my alarms at the start of the lease, could that cause a problem if anything happens.

I just assume that if that the smoke alarm hasn't expired, and when you test the push button the alarm makes a sound that the smoke alarm is working.

 

[priscilla]

Hey Priscilla, where does it say in that link that you must use simulated smoke to test? I have searched all it states is the test button or follow manufactuers instructions, I've checked instructions for ones I've purchased and they all say "Press test button", they dont mention simulated smoke. Just curious where you got that information from.

I don't believe it is written in legislation but has been recommended as part of the testing process. I have been advised several times in the past (mainly by PM trainers and electricians) that simulated smoke is the ONLY way to properly test if a smoke alarm is working properly, pushing the button to make the alarm sound does not mean the alarm is working and would respond to smoke.