smoke alarms

[Lil Skater]

I don't believe it is written in legislation but has been recommended as part of the testing process. I have been advised several times in the past (mainly by PM trainers and electricians) that simulated smoke is the ONLY way to properly test if a smoke alarm is working properly, pushing the button to make the alarm sound does not mean the alarm is working and would respond to smoke.

I've heard that too.

Whilst I think it's great to test alarms (from a PM perspective) I don't think I want to take on that responsibility by saying that it has been tested as working.

Still waiting for the updated legislation to come in re smoke alarms in Vic and really looking forward to having a read through it as I believe it is removing the responsibility from the tenants to change batteries to the landlord.

 

[wylie]

I don't believe it is written in legislation but has been recommended as part of the testing process.

I would guess that until it is written into the legislation, then testing by pressing the "test" button is all that is required.

We always looked after this for our IPs until a few months ago. I hate paying for something that I can do myself, but now I've moved everything to Smoke Alarm Solutions (SAS), I do enjoy not having to get hubby to remember to put in a ladder and change the batteries and test etc.

The other thing was that even though we were very careful about changing batteries at new lease and renewal, and confirmed this on both lease and entry condition report, we didn't realise smoke alarms had "use by" dates and when SAS checked the houses we control, they found three alarms were past their use by date, and two houses needed an extra alarm.

So, careful as we were, had something disastrous happened, we would have been in some trouble.

The other thing I'm enjoying is with four leases being renewed within two weeks of each other, we don't have to do any more than email SAS and arrange a check in the 30 days prior to the new leases starting. Of course, I have to ensure I send SAS an email with tenants' details, but I'm liking that I don't have to organise hubby to do this, nor liaise with tenants. SAS contacts them directly to arrange a mutually suitable time.

All in all, this has turned out to be something I'm happy to pay for.

 

[S.T]

I don't believe it is written in legislation but has been recommended as part of the testing process. I have been advised several times in the past (mainly by PM trainers and electricians) that simulated smoke is the ONLY way to properly test if a smoke alarm is working properly, pushing the button to make the alarm sound does not mean the alarm is working and would respond to smoke.

Yeh but the legislation only says as per manufacturer.

One of the popular brands is Quell (Chubb), here's what they say for their testing, Model is the Q1275 http://www.chubb.com.au/utcfs/ws-582/Assets/Q1275 Manual.pdf

Testing
• Utilise the test button to test the alarm. Do not use naked flames as this does
not replicate smoke and may cause physical damage to the alarm. Test
all your alarms weekly. Remember they are life saving devices, protecting
the family and home. Press and hold the test button until the alarm
sounds. All interconnected alarms will also sound. (Do not stand too
close to the alarm during testing – hearing may be damaged.)
NOTE: WEEKLY TESTING IS REQUIRED.

I've heard that too.

Still waiting for the updated legislation to come in re smoke alarms in Vic and really looking forward to having a read through it as I believe it is removing the responsibility from the tenants to change batteries to the landlord.

Totally agree, it's hard to find the specific information for Vic, so much easier with QLD as they have spelt it all out so it's clear.

 

[The Fence]

I was just reading Mattsavagers thread about insurance companies picking holes in the documentation (in th event something happens)
I test my alarms at the start of the lease, could that cause a problem if anything happens.

I just assume that if that the smoke alarm hasn't expired, and when you test the push button the alarm makes a sound that the smoke alarm is working.

That's all you have to do, that's what the manufacturer says to do so that's all you need to do.

Testing with simulated smoke is unnecessary and anyone telling you to do so is placing you at risk by damaging the alarm itself going against manufacturers instructions.

It's not hard to check an alarm for use by date, it's not hard to check or replace a battery and it's not hard to press a stick on the check button and then record all that in your diary.

Read the rules and stay within them and you should be fine.

 

[camo100]

According to the fire and rescue website; if a tenancy is greater than 12 months the responsibiliy lies with the tenant to clean and test the smoke alarms.
Does that mean if a 12 month agreement is renewed for another year (i.e the tenants stay 2 years) then the tenants are now responsible for the maintenance of the smoke alarms. Because in effect, they have been tenants longer than 12 months.

 

[wylie]

In Queensland, according to the RTA the landlord checks the smoke alarm and changes batteries at the start of each lease and at renewal.

 

[priscilla]

I have posted this link previously in a smoke alarm thread but if you in any doubt as to whom is responsible for smoke alarms is NSW read the coroners report on the death of a tenant....... just because something is not in black and white in the legislation doesn't mean it's not your responsibility.......

http://www.theherald.com.au/story/115632/smoke-alarm-maintenance/

 

[wylie]

The report states "As the legal representatives of landlords who, under lease terms, have responsibility for smoke alarms, agents could find themselves challenged in court if failure to provide or maintain alarms was found to be a contributing factor in a case involving loss of life or property.

For their own good, as well as for the good of both landlords and tenants, agents and managers ought to take Mr Buscombe’s advice and carefully document the installation and regular maintenance and testing of smoke alarms as part of their business procedure."

In Queensland we have always done just this, as per the smoke alarm packaging and as per the RTA. If that changes, then our checking would change.

I'm just saying that in Queensland, we are doing everything as per the rules, and should be covered in the event there is a fire. I still would not like to risk it, but having handed it all over to a company, I am happy to know that this is being looked after. I don't believe this company is doing anything "extra" than we were regarding checking the alarms. I seem to recall they had an aerosol can, so they probably are using simulated smoke or something rather than just pushing the "test" button. However, it seems that pushing the test button is how these things are recommended to be tested weekly, so I was always confident we would be fine (until we found out some alarms had expired).

I cannot believe ANYONE, tenant or owner tests their smoke alarms weekly. Our IPs alarms were always tested once a year by us, which didn't even happen in our own house.

 

[The Fence]

The landlord obviously was found negligent in some way. Exactly how we dont know. Possibly wrong location or failure to provide new batteries at beginning of tenancy, out of date alarm. And fair enough.

But the law is the law.
The Landlord is responsible for the correct installation of smoke alarms, then at each and every new tenancy they are responsible for checking they work, use by date and replacing old with new batteries and the documentation of these actions.

No more no less.

The periodic checking is up to the tenant.

How can a landlord continually check if a alarm is working when they are to respect the tenants right to peace & quiet...?
How does a landlord know if the smoke alarm is disarmed by a tenant.?
For that matter how would any Smoke Alarm Service company know?

Bye the way, Im not so sure that journo was awake at the time of writing that story as it descends into some totally unrelated bit of reporting on street violence...???
never mind telling us all exactly how the landlord was found negligent.....lets move onto street violence in Newcastle .....

 

[The Fence]

I cannot believe ANYONE, tenant or owner tests their smoke alarms weekly. Our IPs alarms were always tested once a year by us, which didn't even happen in our own house.

Impossible for landlord or landlords representative to test weekly as that would be disrupting their right to privacy peace & quiet.
That is why that task is placed upon the tenant to perform.

Unless.......legislation is changed to disrupt tenants on a weekly basis that is...?


Didnt think so...


I agree wylie that you feel better to have someone else do it that's your choice fair enough, but it still does not mean you are completely covered in the case of a death from fire in your property.

 

[wylie]

Agree... And I must ensure I tell the company of new leases etc. it is not a "hand it over completely" scenario at all.

Funny though that we have probably saved the first years cost by not paying our sparkie to swap over a faulty alarm that went into our own house. SAS comes out to replace it for free if it is faulty whereas we would be paying our sparkle a other call out fee (unless he is feeling very generous).

All in all I'm happy to have handed it over after being reluctant for a long time.

 

[The Fence]

Is SAS a registered authorised electrician ?

Im now wondering if only a registered electrical contractor should be doing such things on behalf of landlords...?

Dont know anything about them but I know I'd be feeling more inclined to use them if they were.

It's such a contentious issue...well it can be if we keep expanding on it or it need not be if we stick to the simple written facts and regulations.

I must delve futher...

 

[mattysavager]

The Smoke Alarm Solutions techs are not electricians. They do have electricians on hand to change smoke alarms when they expire, which is also free.

Any work to do with the smoke alarm (such as installing a new one) is quoted from site, and their electrician prices generally are exactly the same as our regular electrician ie - $135 to install a new hard wired smoke alarm.

 

[mattysavager]

So no inspection at renewal of lease at all...?

I just noticed this.

We do not do inspections at lease renewals. It would be illegal for us to do so, as we already carry out the maximum 4 inspections per year (or inspections that are no less than 3 months apart) on a routine cycle.

These inspections do not align exactly with the end of all of our leases, so we do not inspect specifically for lease renewals. We base our recommendation on previous inspections for that property.

 

[Little Learner]

Hi everyone, newbie here + 1st time poster

I received a letter in the mail yesterday from my PM asking if I want to do twice yearly smoke alarm tests $176 pa. I've searched SS for past threads on smoke alarms already and have subsequently decided to agree to this bit but I was hoping for some advice regarding other tests they are also recommending I undertake.

They stress the importance of doing an annual Electrical Test (wiring, electrical fittings check etc) $253.00, and an annual Gas Heater Check - 'price dependent on findings'.

Is this something standard that most LL's would agree to? I havnt been successful in finding many posts on these latter 2 types of tests as part of regular Property Management. Would appreciate any advice given!

 

[mattysavager]

The annual Electrical test seems ridiculous to me. Tenants will inform you when electrics are not working, and as an electrician cannot 'see' the wires to check that rats haven't nibbled them - it would just be a surface inspection.

I have not had experience in gas heaters, which I know are common in the southern states and can be deathtraps if not maintained correctly.

 

[The Fence]

Thanks for the info Matty.

So for lease renewals (without inspection) do you use the original condition report then?

 

[The Fence]

The Smoke Alarm Solutions techs are not electricians. They do have electricians on hand to change smoke alarms when they expire, which is also free.

Any work to do with the smoke alarm (such as installing a new one) is quoted from site, and their electrician prices generally are exactly the same as our regular electrician ie - $135 to install a new hard wired smoke alarm.

I emailed and asked them and yes they are covered by a Licenced Electrician.

Now all we need is for them to provide NSW with their service and I shall be thinking of enrolling.

 

[mattysavager]

Thanks for the info Matty.

So for lease renewals (without inspection) do you use the original condition report then?

In QLD there is only one Entry Condition Report. This is done when the property is vacant. As the tenants are continuing, the original condition report will be referred to whenever the tenants vacate. I am fairly sure this is also the case in the other states - that there is only one Entry Condition Report.

As the tenants don't remove their furniture at each lease renewal, it would be impossible to complete a new Entry Condition Report at each lease renewal.

The routine inspections are different, and just check that the property is being kept in good condition. We have a separate checklist for this, that the owner gets every 3 months with the photos. Any damage or cleaning items are noticed at these inspections and the tenants must rectify.

Some agencies may only do one inspection at each lease renewal - which might be what you're talking about? I wouldn't be happy with that.

The lease renewal is just that - we review the rent, consult with owner, offer a new lease and organise smoke alarms.

 

[The Fence]

Thanks again Matty !