These boys are good at checking for compliance.Chuckle Chuckle
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUwEIt9ez7M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUwEIt9ez7M
Smoke Detectors
- Thread starter Brady
- Start date
Just going through this now with my PM.
In NSW part of the tenancy agreement states the tenant is required to change the battery as required during the tenancy and that the landlord is to make sure the smoke detectors are working. The legislation does not state how this testing is to be done nor does it state who has to do it. So as the landlord you just need to make sure the alarms are working.
In my case the alarms were installed prior to 2005 and complied with codes back then therefore there is no need to replace the detectors as long as they work.
Does anyone know if I'm still required to make sure the alarms comply with the placement of the detectors or am I simply covered as they were installed prior to the changes??? My IP is a 2 story Torrens Title Townhouse in NSW.
Also on the property inspection report I receive shows a place for smoke alarms and is always marked G (Good). To me this implies the PM has made sure its working. Would you read this the same way???
I'm thinking that I may just get an initial inspection then subsequent agreements test myself.
In NSW part of the tenancy agreement states the tenant is required to change the battery as required during the tenancy and that the landlord is to make sure the smoke detectors are working. The legislation does not state how this testing is to be done nor does it state who has to do it. So as the landlord you just need to make sure the alarms are working.
In my case the alarms were installed prior to 2005 and complied with codes back then therefore there is no need to replace the detectors as long as they work.
Does anyone know if I'm still required to make sure the alarms comply with the placement of the detectors or am I simply covered as they were installed prior to the changes??? My IP is a 2 story Torrens Title Townhouse in NSW.
Also on the property inspection report I receive shows a place for smoke alarms and is always marked G (Good). To me this implies the PM has made sure its working. Would you read this the same way???
I'm thinking that I may just get an initial inspection then subsequent agreements test myself.
Since the new laws came in last year the NSW Residential Tenancy Agreement no longer states that the tenant is responsible to change the battery. The agreement states as follows:-
38. The landlord agrees to ensure that smoke
alarms are installed and maintained in the
residential premises in accordance with section
146A of the Environmental Planning and
Assessment Act 1979 if that section requires them
to be installed in the premises.
If your alarms were installed prior to 2005 chances are they are now expired and would need replacing, you would need to check the expiry date on them.
Our understanding is the placement of the detectors needs to be complied with no matter when the alarms were installed.
A PM is no expert on smoke alarms so I wouldn't be leaving the testing up to them, and any PM or agency that take on this responsibility in my opinion is crazy.
You can do the testing and maintenance yourself, if I were doing this I would ensure I tested the smoke alarm at least annually (testing with simulated smoke is the best way to ensure they are working correctly), and change the batteries. You should keep a record of this along with the expiry date of the alarm.
Agree with Priscilla.
Also - in QLD, the smoke alarms must always comply with Current legislation. So unlike 1970s low handrails and other building code niggles, every time you advertise the property for rent, you must ensure that they are always up to code.
If you would now be required to have an extra alarm, or different placement etc, you will need to ensure that this is done before any new lease agreement is signed (even if it's just a renewal).
Also - almost all routine condition report templates have a section for smoke alarms. This is used usually if the tenant reports it to be beeping, not working etc, or if the agent notices that the tenants have taken it down, tampered with it. It does not satisfy the requirement to test & clean.
Also - in QLD, the smoke alarms must always comply with Current legislation. So unlike 1970s low handrails and other building code niggles, every time you advertise the property for rent, you must ensure that they are always up to code.
If you would now be required to have an extra alarm, or different placement etc, you will need to ensure that this is done before any new lease agreement is signed (even if it's just a renewal).
Also - almost all routine condition report templates have a section for smoke alarms. This is used usually if the tenant reports it to be beeping, not working etc, or if the agent notices that the tenants have taken it down, tampered with it. It does not satisfy the requirement to test & clean.
Short answer - no.
It would contradict the standard terms from the tenancy authority and be invalid and unenforceable.
It would contradict the standard terms from the tenancy authority and be invalid and unenforceable.
I don't know what the legislation in SA is and now I think I need to go find out.
My PM said it's a requirement for all new home purchases to install hard wired to mains smoke alarms so I am getting some installed. It has plain battery powered ones at the moment. He also said it's ok for him to test them and replace batteries when he does inspections.
My PM said it's a requirement for all new home purchases to install hard wired to mains smoke alarms so I am getting some installed. It has plain battery powered ones at the moment. He also said it's ok for him to test them and replace batteries when he does inspections.
I recently had a visit from SATS to do the alarm checks, below is the link to what they do.
http://sats.com.au/landlords.html
http://sats.com.au/landlords.html
Is it true that tenants do not have to change batteries if the smoke alarm runs off AC? Assuming that these batteries need replacing every year (which may not be the case given they run off AC most of the time), then wouldn't the landlord have to do it or pay someone to do it?
Maybe I'm totally underestimating the complexity of a smoke alarm but I don't see why it would need specialised expertise.
Checking the date - surely the expiry date on these devices would be reasonably obvious. I would expect a PM to be able to comprehend most date formats. OK, maybe not all of them
Positioning - legislation/guides should be clear enough to state the position. ie. in hall, not in bedroom etc. If they can understand the RTA (which they should), then they should be able to get their brain around these rules.
Testing. Even if they don't have 'simulated smoke', wouldn't it be fairly easy just to create some controlled real smoke. eg a candle. They can take their own toaster and burn some toast under it if it makes it easier.
I just don't get why its such a big deal to check out a smoke alarm.
*Sigh* maybe I'm just having a bad day...
Maybe I'm totally underestimating the complexity of a smoke alarm but I don't see why it would need specialised expertise.
Checking the date - surely the expiry date on these devices would be reasonably obvious. I would expect a PM to be able to comprehend most date formats. OK, maybe not all of them
Positioning - legislation/guides should be clear enough to state the position. ie. in hall, not in bedroom etc. If they can understand the RTA (which they should), then they should be able to get their brain around these rules.
Testing. Even if they don't have 'simulated smoke', wouldn't it be fairly easy just to create some controlled real smoke. eg a candle. They can take their own toaster and burn some toast under it if it makes it easier.
I just don't get why its such a big deal to check out a smoke alarm.
*Sigh* maybe I'm just having a bad day...
Here's some info regarding positioning
http://www.changeyourbattery.com.au/positioning.html
I'd be interested in how the smoke alarm companies test using smoke simulation.
http://www.changeyourbattery.com.au/positioning.html
I'd be interested in how the smoke alarm companies test using smoke simulation.
From what I have seen they use a spray can which must contain so sort of 'smoke' which they spray in the vicinity of the alarm and see if it responds.
thanks Terry
quick google found it here for only $13.50 a can!
http://www.sparkydirect.com.au/p/931871/can-of-smoke-lt711.html
There you go, you too can start up a smoke alarm testing company
quick google found it here for only $13.50 a can!
http://www.sparkydirect.com.au/p/931871/can-of-smoke-lt711.html
There you go, you too can start up a smoke alarm testing company
Can somebody point me to what section 146A of the Environmental Planning and Assessment Act 1979 says, because I cannot find anything on it.
Tx.
In the spirit of being big enough to admit when I was wrong I thought I would report back about our decision to hand over the smoke detector annual visit to Smoke Alarm Solutions for our own house and our IPs, plus the IPs we look after for our late parents. I still believe we are perfectly capable of changing batteries with each lease renewal or new lease and we have always covered ourselves by scratching the date onto the batteries and noting that the new battery is in and the detectors tested on both the lease and the entry condition report.
However, with the offer of two years for the price of one, and the fact this whole area is a bit of a grey area, and with the increasingly litigious path we seem to be heading as a society, we thought it was worth paying to have someone in to check the alarms and take on the risk.
I've had two calls today advising that one house requires two more smoke detectors than it currently has and another house requires (by law) a smoke detector in the laundry area which is enclosed under the house. We would never have thought this area needed a detector.
Another house had two detectors that had passed their "use by" date and in one house the tenants had removed the detector, no doubt due to it beeping. Any future beeping will be looked after by the company and any faulty detector they install will be replaced free of charge.
I know that maybe four months ago we got our sparkie in to replace the old detectors in our house. The new one outside our upstairs bedrooms beeped so much, we ripped it off in frustration and getting the sparkie back was on our list of things to do. Meanwhile we didn't have a working smoke detector and I was not comfortable but it must be three months since we took it down.
The company put a new one in for us. If it beeps, we won't have to pay them to return and fix it.
So, I actually feel happy that we have handed this over to the experts and they can shoulder the risk.
I thought I would report back about our decision to hand over the smoke detector annual visit to Smoke Alarm Solutions for our own house and our IPs, plus the IPs we look after for our late parents. I still believe we are perfectly capable of changing batteries with each lease renewal or new lease and we have always covered ourselves by scratching the date onto the batteries and noting that the new battery is in and the detectors tested on both the lease and the entry condition report.However, with the offer of two years for the price of one, and the fact this whole area is a bit of a grey area, and with the increasingly litigious path we seem to be heading as a society, we thought it was worth paying to have someone in to check the alarms and take on the risk.
I've had two calls today advising that one house requires two more smoke detectors than it currently has and another house requires (by law) a smoke detector in the laundry area which is enclosed under the house. We would never have thought this area needed a detector.
Another house had two detectors that had passed their "use by" date and in one house the tenants had removed the detector, no doubt due to it beeping. Any future beeping will be looked after by the company and any faulty detector they install will be replaced free of charge.
I know that maybe four months ago we got our sparkie in to replace the old detectors in our house. The new one outside our upstairs bedrooms beeped so much, we ripped it off in frustration and getting the sparkie back was on our list of things to do. Meanwhile we didn't have a working smoke detector and I was not comfortable but it must be three months since we took it down.
The company put a new one in for us. If it beeps, we won't have to pay them to return and fix it.
So, I actually feel happy that we have handed this over to the experts and they can shoulder the risk.
Well I'm just looking at this smoke alarm thing now and I'm pretty appalled by this attitude of pass the buck for money. Is there no responsibility left? And the scare mongering? It's shameful and I'm a property manager. Risk Management does NOT mean 'Pass the Buck'!!! cos you couldn't be bothered.
We know what the owner has to do. They have to keep the smoke alarm working lalala. Does the manufacturer consider their instructions sufficient to do that during the alarms life? Well guess what a well known manufacturer says to that? There is no further maintenance or testing required other than to follow the instructions contained with the alarm when supplied. It is all user serviceable as it were. Honestly you can press your own test button, you can change your own battery. You can even press hush. Really.
Don't get me started on microwave radiation. I must be missing a trick.
We know what the owner has to do. They have to keep the smoke alarm working lalala. Does the manufacturer consider their instructions sufficient to do that during the alarms life? Well guess what a well known manufacturer says to that? There is no further maintenance or testing required other than to follow the instructions contained with the alarm when supplied. It is all user serviceable as it were. Honestly you can press your own test button, you can change your own battery. You can even press hush. Really.
Don't get me started on microwave radiation. I must be missing a trick.
Don't Smoke Detectors only alert someone to the prescence of smoke/heat?
If you leave the oven on, have faulty wiring etc I can't see them chasing your smoke detector company or compliance/checking company
Speaking to a couple of fire fighters, its seems candles in the home with teenage girls are a common cause of fires
I am more that happy to document and test the alarms in my IP. I have 5 in my IP low set requirement is 1. All are hardwired photo electric and interconnected so when one goes off they all go off. Installed by sparkie and have been certified by the sparkie.
Through the PM I use it costs me $49.00 per year with free visits for batteries etc as required, I receive notification and a certificate when they have been and that they meet requirements. Hence why I don't bother doing them myself.
Wylie - I'd question the (BY - LAW) one must be installed in the laundry, I have not heard that one. One in the laundry would be a bit$h if there is a dryer.
Two extra in a house again I'd question was it a requirement or a nice to have. Low set basically only needs one, highset requires one on each level of course nice to have them one each level and each bedroom.
Brian
Through the PM I use it costs me $49.00 per year with free visits for batteries etc as required, I receive notification and a certificate when they have been and that they meet requirements. Hence why I don't bother doing them myself.
Wylie - I'd question the (BY - LAW) one must be installed in the laundry, I have not heard that one. One in the laundry would be a bit$h if there is a dryer.
Two extra in a house again I'd question was it a requirement or a nice to have. Low set basically only needs one, highset requires one on each level of course nice to have them one each level and each bedroom.
Brian
I'm not sure if that post is aimed at me. I've looked after our own IPs smoke alarms (and self-managed for 30 years).
The only reason we decided to hand the job to the "experts" is that it seems to be a bit of a grey area, and I don't want to lose all we have for such a low cost per year. I KNOW I can do it myself, have done for years. But I was surprised that we did have some detectors past their due dates and one house with five bedrooms needed extra. The "laundry" downstairs might not have been required, but that was their advice to us, and for $30 I was happy to have one there. It is under a queenslander, so not fully enclosed, but I'm not questioning it.
And I'm happy that should something happen, the company has insurance. I do too, but I'm happy to pay a little to have more chance of not losing our shirts.
