smoker vs non smoker

[DCI]

Hi all I need some advise/opions.
My wifes parents own an investment property that till now has been rented to there son. He has since bought his own place so they wish to now rent it out.
They will self manage the property but have mentioned to me that they are going to advertise it for non smoking tenants. When told this I wasn't sure as to wether this may prove as a major disadvantage for them, reducing potential tenants that smoke (legally) etc. I know this may appear discrimenatory but they said it is no diffrent to having a no pet clause, which to some extent might be true. I have explained my concern, but they are concerned about smells and carpet burns etc.
They do not smoke themselves nor does my wife and I or any of our tenants for that matter. So I just wanted peoples opions from smokers/ non smokers as to if you believe this would be a problem renting it out?
Your advise/opions would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance

 

[TheCamel]

to be honest, i'd just tell you I was a non-smoker if I smoked.

 

[kyliej]

I think they are right to ask for non smoking, and in my experience alot of people now days are non smokers. We always include a clause in agreements that says no smoking by tenants or their guests inside the property, that way if there is evidence of smoking inside they are in breach od their tenancy agreement. Smoking inside always causes problems especially bad smells that can never be removed and make houses hard to re rent.

 

[Xenia]

They cannot advertise for non smoking tenants it breaches discriminatory laws. They cannot enforce non smoking as it could breach the quite enjoyment part of the act.

In our leases we have a clause that is written to get around anti desrimination but allow landlords to enjoy non smoking tenants. It states that it is the tenants "choice" to smoke but if they excercise this choice we will choose to hold them responsible for any damage caused to the property as a result of their choice.

We also tell them verbally, this is a non-smoking property!

I agree though, I get annoyed when I see people smoking anywhere let alone in my or my clients rental properties!

 

[Peggle]

Well as a smoker (trying to beat the habit), I'd have to suggest that they find some way to "discourage" smoking within the property itself. Actually, I like Xenia's idea and will have to keep that in mind for the future.

 

[Witzl]

For a start... i wouldn't self manage the property. My parents did this on their home, and it got trashed by the tennants (who were friends of friends).

The tennants were "non-smokers" on interview, and otherwise good people.... but when they moved out, the house was trashed.
- carpets bleached into various "patches" of faded colour
- house REAKED of smoke and ash
- over 15 different cigarette burns in the carpets, most in the living room and main bedroom!
- brand new kitchen (when leased) was left with 2 broken cupboard doors and a broken pull-out cupboard
- new paint in the house was left grubby and filthy.


My parents put the house on the market after these tennats moved out, and my poor mum had to spend an entire WEEK cleaning the house up before any inspections.

Now if my mum had the property professionally managed, this would've all been handled by the PM.


As for the topic at hand.... its a tough one. Im a smoker myself, but i absolutely abhor smoking inside a house. However some smokers, especially those above 30 (in my experience), do smoke inside the house.

It's hard to know if your tennant is a smoker or not... and if they are, then are your wife's parents willing to go through tribunals and stuff to get funds for damages if tennants do smoke inside the house and cause damage?


Personally i think you should leave the property management to the professionals. They will handle all these problems for you

 

[wylie]

My parents put the house on the market after these tennats moved out, and my poor mum had to spend an entire WEEK cleaning the house up before any inspections.

Now if my mum had the property professionally managed, this would've all been handled by the PM.

Could you mum not have kept back some bond to pay for professional cleaners. We have done that successfully on two occasions when cleaning has entailed more than a mop and sweep. Most of our tenants have left the houses clean, but moving out still means a last sweep and mop, which I am happy to do.

It's hard to know if your tennant is a smoker or not... and if they are, then are your wife's parents willing to go through tribunals and stuff to get funds for damages if tennants do smoke inside the house and cause damage?


Personally i think you should leave the property management to the professionals. They will handle all these problems for you

We manage our IPs ourself, and if there is any sort of issue, we make sure we get the forms in before the tenants do, and let them fight to get it back, and take us to the tribunal if it comes to that.

The only time my parents were taken to the tribunal because they held back money for cleaning and trashed curtains, we had photos to back up our side of the story. My parents won the case. I don't think having a PM would have been any easier.

 

[ianvestor]

For me it would depend on the length of the lease and the current state of the carpet. Carpets need replacing occasionally anyway (Or removing, if there are nice boards underneath).

 

[Witzl]

The carpet in mum's house was only a few years old, and spotlessly clean (my mum is anal about cleaning).


Wylie.....
yes my mum couldve done that, however the hassle of doing all the forms, not knowing exactly where they stand as landlords and where the tennants stands, not being experienced with it... and having a tennant pushing you constantly to get their bond back.... it made it all a massive stress for my mum.

Sure she kept some of the bond for cleaning, but how to you put a price on things like a brand new kitchen getting 10 years worth of use in 24 months?

it was more the stress of being the one to have to directly contact with the tennant to tell them "no, you arent getting your whole bond back because you trashed my house"... and then copping the verbal abuse from a military mother (yes this was a defence force family)

 

[wylie]

Totally understand that. I was at the house the morning the tenants who took my mum to the tribunal came back to do their final clean. They did nothing, but took some last remaining things out. My mother confronted the woman (rotweiler with lipstick ). Meek little husband waiting outside, not game to come into the fray. It was not pleasant, but quite fun in a way. Certainly gets the blood flowing.

We took plenty of photos, which were invaluable at the tribunal. They didn't have a leg to stand on. The photos told it all .

I understand somebody could easily be intimidated, but my mother is one force to be reckoned with. After their smart attitude, she increased what she was claiming for. She was only going to ask for eight hours' cleaning, but instead asked for that, plus the cost of new curtains, hose etc. Tenants ended up with $14 of their bond .

These were long term tenants, no issues until then, but kept the place like a junk yard, which my mum was most upset about. They were about $80 under market because they had been there about five years, and mum just didn't keep up like she should have, particularly the final year when rents had jumped so quickly. Mum also allowed them to stay a few months at the old rent while they settled on their house purchase, something she did out of the goodness of her heart. What a payback . I think that just got mum riled up more. You don't want to mess with my mum when she is riled .

I have learned so many things from watching my parents manage IPs over the years, and it is really helpful to have my mum to back me up, and vice versa.

One of the best tips we ever got was to get our return of bond paperwork in first, and let the other side prove their case. Better than them getting their paperwork in first and us having to fight our case.

 

[natmarie73]

They cannot advertise for non smoking tenants it breaches discriminatory laws. They cannot enforce non smoking as it could breach the quite enjoyment part of the act.

Which discriminatory laws does it breach Xenia? The commonwealth anti-discrimination act only lists race, sex, marital status, transgender, disability, responsibilities as a carer, homosexuality, age as areas you are not allowed to discriminate against while s.7(1) of the Qld Act prohibits discrimination on the basis of the following
attributes—
(a) sex;
(b) marital status;
(c) pregnancy;
(d) parental status;
(e) breastfeeding;
(f) age;
(g) race;
(h) impairment;
(i) religion;
(j) political belief or activity;
(k) trade union activity;
(l) lawful sexual activity;
(m) association with, or relation to, a person identified on the basis of
any of the above attributes.

I don't know about the Acts in any other states or any other laws that would apply but if you could point me in the right direction I would be interesting in reading up on it some more.

I guess you probably wouldn't be allowed to evict them if they do smoke though.

My leases all state no smoking in the house and tenants are breached if they do. This hasn't stopped them though, but you would think they would be smart enough not to leave cigarette burns in the carpets

 

[ianvestor]

(h) impairment;

What about respiratory impairment?

 

[natmarie73]

It wouldn't surprise me at all. I recently read about a case where a drug-addict who was sacked from his job because he turned up when he wanted to (or not) stoned out of his head and pretty much did nothing all day was reinstated because his drug addiction was classified as an impairment.

 

[duckster]

smoking

If you build a nice outside area like a rotunda or a pergola on the side of the house a tenant might prefer to smoke outside rather than affect their kids with side stream smoke by smoking inside.