That's what I cant understand why young people don't do a trade,yet you get the opposite when you get 75 dentists going for the same job something must be out of wack..
So, what do you think might be in store for this years budget?
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That's what I cant understand why young people don't do a trade,yet you get the opposite when you get 75 dentists going for the same job something must be out of wack..
Yes, I agree the Universities have been less than truthful about the realistic employment prospects for their graduates hence the oversubscription in courses like law, accounting, finance, business, economics, teaching etc. For courses like law and accounting, there is still the prestige associated by the families for their progeny to have these degrees hence the insatiable demand for enrolment in these courses. Many do not realise, that in this globalised world, even 'prestige' jobs - law and accounting, like IT, are heading for cheaper Indian shores where it is considered backroom work with the help of advanced computerisation.
But I don't think you have to fret much longer about how universities are making the best use of our tax dollars and us having to hold them to account about how our tax dollars are being made the best use of, MarkB.
I've been reading a lot about the University sector shake-up.
The Group of 8 are now participating in the most Divine Comedy of errors reminiscent of Shakespearean proportions.
In April, the Group of 8 went to the Education Minister to pressure hard for deregulation of university fees.
The Go8 chair, Professor Young, who is also the Vice Chancellor of ANU said, "Removing arbitrary limits on fees would lead to a more vibrant and diverse university system and allow Australian universities to become truly world class."
Kim Carr said that they have been doing that for years previously and he and other Education Ministers have knocked them on the head about derergulation.
The Group of 8 had their wildest dreams come true and then some...
The Budget 2014 basically cut universities loose to fend for themselves
"Deregulation of undergraduate fees meant government funding for each Commonwealth-supported student would be cut by an average 20 per cent, and universities would be free to decide their own fees for undergraduate courses". Student HECs/HELP debts would be subject to interest rates of up to 6%.
The Group of 8 wanted deregulation - to be free to charge whatever they want - but they did not forsee the double whammy of withdrawal of Commonwealth funding of 20% for each student and the impost of market rate interest on unpaid HECs/HELP debts at the same time.
Now, the universities are balking and backtracking at the speed at which they have to implement these complex changes as they will have to manage different cohort of students under different fee charging systems at the same time.
Furthermore, the Universities are now begging the Education Minister to give them more time to deregulate as they cannot give accurate tables of fees to current and incoming students. Students will be enrolling in 2014 and 2015 without knowing what the complete fees and charges are from 2016. 'Not enough time, not enough time', Unis are screaming! How ironic when they've brought this upon themselves.
Michael Spence, University of Sydney's vice chancellor is now saying:
''I want the best students, not only those who can afford to pay,'' Dr Spence said.
My take is that what the Unis are really panicking about are potential class actions taken by disgruntled students who enrol without realizing the extent of the cost they would have to pay. Students will claim they were given spurious, inaccurate or incomplete information about their course structure fees. Think 'lawsuits'
Govts will shrug their shoulders and say, 'we cut you loose, you wanted to be cut loose, you deal with it, it's your problem now'
If the Unis lose these lawsuits and students go scot-free without paying a cent of their courses as they will claim to be 'duped', then Unis will have to sell of their assets like share portfolio or realestate portfolio of buildings to realise their losses from uncollected student fees. Just my 2 cts.
Lawsuits??
Why?
Kids going into unis these days have no idea what the exact cost will be as they have too many choices. How can the uni know then????
My son is at UWA atm.
He has a wide choice of core, broadening and elective subjects he can choose. He has no idea what the cost would be for the second semester whilst choosing his first semester units as his choices might change.
IIRC, it is running at about $5K to 10K pa or a total cost of about $30K to 40K. He'll end up with no debt after leaving uni.
Why?
Kids going into unis these days have no idea what the exact cost will be as they have too many choices. How can the uni know then????
My son is at UWA atm.
He has a wide choice of core, broadening and elective subjects he can choose. He has no idea what the cost would be for the second semester whilst choosing his first semester units as his choices might change.
IIRC, it is running at about $5K to 10K pa or a total cost of about $30K to 40K. He'll end up with no debt after leaving uni.
Yes, something the Unions have been complaining about for years.
In this dog eat dog world and perhaps a change in our social fabric more employers can't afford or might not want to outlay the costs of training apprentices.
Easier in some cases to use subcontractors, who in turn can bring in employees from overseas to fill vacancies.
Possibly similar to mining where traditionally a family community would be established nearby. Now it's FIFO or DIDO.
Having said that there are people who go to Uni, realise it's not for them and take up a trade. I know two people who have done that.
Both of them went to uni, pushed into it by their parents, didn't like it, left, then became electricians and are loving it.
Bonus for their parents who get free electrical work.
Sadly, the government doesn't love our apprentices for trades either though.
Nearly $1bn is cut by ending the "tools for trade" program.
The 'Tools for Your Trade' is a program of financial incentives to apprentices to buy their tools. It will be replaced with a loans program for apprentices, similar to higher education loans, which must be repaid.
During the election campaign the Lib-Nats promised that the loan would be "interest free"; now however it will, like the Help, be paid back at the 10 year bond rate.
Hockey swaps apprentices tools for debts
"Struggling apprentices will be expected to pay their own way with the Budget axing their tool allowance and instead offering to lumber them with a $20,000 bank loan to meet expenses.
In one of Treasurer Hockey's meanest cuts, apprentices on pay well below the minimum wage have been stripped of an $8000 grant to purchase the tools essential to their work as the Australian Apprenticeships Incentives Program 'Tools for Your Trade" was abolished.
Instead, each apprentice will be brought under the new Trade Support Loans Program, a HECS-style arrangement for loans up to $20,000 which apprentices will pay off once they have completed their training.
By swapping the $1 billion spent on the tools program for the $439 million loans program, Joe Hockey has just lifted $561 million out of the pockets of Australia's most crucial workers, the future hope of retaining a skilled manufacturing industry.
Putting extra pressure on them to start meeting those payments, the Government wants the private financial sector to take over managing the loans to from 2015.
AMWU National President Andrew Dettmer condemned the Government's claimed concern for apprentices as "rank hypocrisy" which reflected its across the board disdain for young people.
"First off, the Government is replacing a grant with a loan - and still claiming that apprentices will be better off. Then, it is ripping the funding out of skills training and apprenticeship support," he said.
"And finally, it has the hide to consider privatising the loan system and hiving it off to banks and debt collectors."
"If they do lose their jobs at any stage, this Budget means young workers face six months with no benefits, possibly forced on to the street and chased by debt collectors."
In a further blow, more than 10 Skills Training and Apprenticeship programs are being abolished, including the Accelerated Australian Apprenticeships Programme, National Workforce Development Fund, Australian Apprenticeship Access Programme and Step Into Skills Programme.
That debasement of industry training will save the Abbott Government $524 million, as they introduce an Industry Skills Fund with a budget less than half the $1 billion previously spent in this area.
That will see private sector employer groups given more opportunity with their own training companies to grab the whip hand on co-ordinating many skill training programs across manufacturing.
Courses formerly run through TAFEs will be opened up to a wide array of private providers, which even the Australian Industry Group admits will have to be scrutinised closely to ensure training standards are adequate.
Mr Dettmer said the AMWU had no confidence in such a system, which includes Joe Hockey axing the English language training for NESB workers which unions and employers both support..
"We've see the stripping back of TAFE funding across conservative states, we've seen enrolments plunge as they drop into the red," he said.
"There's been a continuing increase in 457 visas being issued to supposedly "plug skill shortages" - but a lack of training and future planning is causing these shortages in the first place."
Nearly $1bn is cut by ending the "tools for trade" program.
The 'Tools for Your Trade' is a program of financial incentives to apprentices to buy their tools. It will be replaced with a loans program for apprentices, similar to higher education loans, which must be repaid.
During the election campaign the Lib-Nats promised that the loan would be "interest free"; now however it will, like the Help, be paid back at the 10 year bond rate.
Hockey swaps apprentices tools for debts
"Struggling apprentices will be expected to pay their own way with the Budget axing their tool allowance and instead offering to lumber them with a $20,000 bank loan to meet expenses.
In one of Treasurer Hockey's meanest cuts, apprentices on pay well below the minimum wage have been stripped of an $8000 grant to purchase the tools essential to their work as the Australian Apprenticeships Incentives Program 'Tools for Your Trade" was abolished.
Instead, each apprentice will be brought under the new Trade Support Loans Program, a HECS-style arrangement for loans up to $20,000 which apprentices will pay off once they have completed their training.
By swapping the $1 billion spent on the tools program for the $439 million loans program, Joe Hockey has just lifted $561 million out of the pockets of Australia's most crucial workers, the future hope of retaining a skilled manufacturing industry.
Putting extra pressure on them to start meeting those payments, the Government wants the private financial sector to take over managing the loans to from 2015.
AMWU National President Andrew Dettmer condemned the Government's claimed concern for apprentices as "rank hypocrisy" which reflected its across the board disdain for young people.
"First off, the Government is replacing a grant with a loan - and still claiming that apprentices will be better off. Then, it is ripping the funding out of skills training and apprenticeship support," he said.
"And finally, it has the hide to consider privatising the loan system and hiving it off to banks and debt collectors."
"If they do lose their jobs at any stage, this Budget means young workers face six months with no benefits, possibly forced on to the street and chased by debt collectors."
In a further blow, more than 10 Skills Training and Apprenticeship programs are being abolished, including the Accelerated Australian Apprenticeships Programme, National Workforce Development Fund, Australian Apprenticeship Access Programme and Step Into Skills Programme.
That debasement of industry training will save the Abbott Government $524 million, as they introduce an Industry Skills Fund with a budget less than half the $1 billion previously spent in this area.
That will see private sector employer groups given more opportunity with their own training companies to grab the whip hand on co-ordinating many skill training programs across manufacturing.
Courses formerly run through TAFEs will be opened up to a wide array of private providers, which even the Australian Industry Group admits will have to be scrutinised closely to ensure training standards are adequate.
Mr Dettmer said the AMWU had no confidence in such a system, which includes Joe Hockey axing the English language training for NESB workers which unions and employers both support..
"We've see the stripping back of TAFE funding across conservative states, we've seen enrolments plunge as they drop into the red," he said.
"There's been a continuing increase in 457 visas being issued to supposedly "plug skill shortages" - but a lack of training and future planning is causing these shortages in the first place."
A younger cousin is doing a mechanics apprenticeship at the moment and it sounds like its with an industry body rather a specific business. He's been moved around to different businesses a few times when they've run out of work to give him or get sick of him or whatever - which is great because he gets to see/learn some variety and has great job security because he just gets placed at the next business.
It'd be great if other industries did that as well (or maybe some do already).
Because of all the retarded work by unions over the past few years, people are basically impossible to fire. Especially as beginners to the workforce as most apprentices are, it'd be a win-win if employers didnt have to commit for 4hrs.
Well, it's cheaper than going to uni, they get to earn money probably 2/3 years sooner than a uni graduate, plus most end up starting their own small business and/or being their own boss.
I can only see positives.
Glad I've got a glass half full attitude most of the time.
Yes, I read about that. One source wrote that the payment time frame has been structured so as to provide an incentive for people to complete their apprenticeship. Apparently there have been high drop out rates.
And that is great!
These people were obviously smart enough to go to Uni and then plan an alternative career path.
What would be sad is if the same characters had left school, become electricians and then spent years wondering whether they should have gone to Uni instead ....................
Joe Hockey protesting about a $250 admin charge when he was a student in 1987 
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/...ducation-for-all/story-fni6ulvf-1226935016965
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/...ducation-for-all/story-fni6ulvf-1226935016965
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/national/believe-it-or-not-this-version-of-joe-hockey-actually-protested-against-an-attack-on-free-university-education-for-all/story-fni6ulvf-1226935016965
Joe Hockey agrees with you (but only in the time since he finished his free education).
Hahaha! Joe Hockey who fattens himself on the public purse, first as a student and now as a politician, then insists that the 99% must go on a starvation diet. Sublime!
University students protesting...
Meh.
Meh.
Joe Hockey protesting about a $250 admin charge when he was a student in 1987
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/...ducation-for-all/story-fni6ulvf-1226935016965
Wonder if he will pull out the Gillard defence: I was young and naive.
At least what he was doing was legal.
I just heard him explain the differences in what he was protesting back then and todays proposals.
Vastly different situation.
But hystericals will run with it I guess.
At least what he was doing was legal.
I just heard him explain the differences in what he was protesting back then and todays proposals.
Vastly different situation.
But hystericals will run with it I guess.
Yeah, vastly different. He's right to protest a $250 admin fee, yet current students are wrong to protest tens of thousands of dollars of extra fees.
Keep drinking the Kool-Aid, Fence.
At least what he was doing was legal.
I just heard him explain the differences in what he was protesting back then and todays proposals.
Vastly different situation.
But hystericals will run with it I guess.
Hockey was fervently protesting the same situation, Fence. Besides protesting about the $250 admin fee, he was an ardent and staunch defender of free education for all and lambasted the Liberal party for daring to plan to cut funds to university education. Let's hear it from his own mouth.
For by your words you shall be justified, and by your words you shall be condemned.
Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...ersity-fees-20140528-394jn.html#ixzz333NvPZnh
You do realise that dentists have the highest starting salary out of all university graduates? And they can start their own business if they want, just like someone who has completed a trade.
For sure that may be the case but the start-up costs would be vastly different from being a Dentists compared to a Plumber,,around the same time frame for plumbing and dentist in study and lic terms,but the start up for a Dentists even with the leased building and all outgoings full new fit-out depending on the location is a high risk and I have be married to a Dentist for over 25 years and not all Dentists in private business models are a winner..imho..
So BG, you agree that students get too many benefits?
