So, what do you think might be in store for this years budget?

[Harro]

Education to Year 12 is virtually free for all students who attend Public schools. Going on to Tertiary education is a choice! If you choose to continue to study, you should pay.
Most of these students are over 18 and able to vote, thus, are seen by society as "Adults". Hence, they need to make Adult decisions regarding their futures. Paying HECS debts is not new.
These students know full well which career paths (Degrees) are overloaded and should structure their choices to areas whereby on graduating they have a far greater likelihood of attaining a Job/Career in which they can earn very good salaries. Paying back the debt once earning over 53k is not unreasonable considering their earning potential.
Both my daughters attended Uni and both have now paid off their debt through sheer hard work whilst at Uni and from their salaries after starting in their chosen careers. Thankfully, both realise it was a PRIVILEGE to be able to gain Higher Education which has allowed them to earn high paying incomes. Something they were both prepared to PAY for.

 

[The Fence]

Thank you Harro.

Sensible, no bludging, pay you own way.

Both your daughters have no hand out mentality which will put them in good stead throughout their whole lives!

Well done on bringing them up properly.

 

[Beanie Girl]

Going on to Tertiary education is a choice! If you choose to continue to study, you should pay.

Thankfully, both realise it was a PRIVILEGE to be able to gain Higher Education which has allowed them to earn high paying incomes. Something they were both prepared to PAY for.

Harro, obviously, your daughters haven't fully paid off their debt. Their FULL debt.
If you and your daughters truly believe that Education is a PRIVILEGE that should be PAID FOR, you and your daughters would have no objections in paying the difference between HECS and FULL FEE which reflects the true cost of educating them.

With all due respect, may I kindly suggest then that your daughters make a donation to the university attended to make up the difference between HECS and FULL FEE and please post the receipt to this forum for all to see that you put your money where your mouth is.

Otherwise your daughters have not fully discharged their debt in accordance with their father's thinking -

"If you choose to continue to study, you should pay....HECS....why stop there?....and pay...carry on!...and pay....FULL FEE...and pay.... interest on monies not paid between HECs and Full Fee for the x number of years between commencement of studies and now when working

After all, Education is a privilege, not a right for your daughters (forget the United Nations Convention which Australia signed in 1972, it doesn't apply to your daughters according to their father)

 

[Harro]

They paid what they had to pay by law. They, nor I made the rules, the Government did. Rules as we know change all the time. Suck it up!

 

[D.T.]

BG
Why are you glass half empty on every single post? Are you sure this is the right forum for you?

Harro described 2 girls who played the hand they were dealt, got their crap together and now sounds like they have appropriate reward for effort.

Any multi year endeavour, whether university or apprenticeship or investing or weight loss or business or relationships or whatever, ought to have their dedication and commitment celebrated and not belittled.

 

[pinkboy]

BG
Why are you glass half empty on every single post? Are you sure this is the right forum for you?

Harro described 2 girls who played the hand they were dealt, got their crap together and now sounds like they have appropriate reward for effort.

Any multi year endeavour, whether university or apprenticeship or investing or weight loss or business or relationships or whatever, ought to have their dedication and commitment celebrated and not belittled.

I've gotta spread Kudos around, so no shame in publicly saying: SNAP!


pinkboy

 

[Hoffy]

After all, Education is a privilege, not a right for your daughters (forget the United Nations Convention which Australia signed in 1972, it doesn't apply to your daughters according to their father)

There is a UN convention on tertiary education? What does it say?

 

[Harro]

The UN showed its relevance with the war in Iraq. They are still reeling from it!

 

[Beanie Girl]

BG
Why are you glass half empty on every single post? Are you sure this is the right forum for you?

Harro described 2 girls who played the hand they were dealt, got their crap together and now sounds like they have appropriate reward for effort.

Any multi year endeavour, whether university or apprenticeship or investing or weight loss or business or relationships or whatever, ought to have their dedication and commitment celebrated and not belittled.

D.T. I never once belittled Harro's daughters or their efforts at attaining their degrees. Of course, it escaped your notice that the below statement from Harro was belittling.

I am making a positive contribution. I am defending the right of all young people to receive a university education based on their individual merit and not their wealth or their family's wealth. I will never tell a young person that the quality of their education depends on their capacity to pay.

They paid what they had to pay by law. They, nor I made the rules, the Government did. Rules as we know change all the time. Suck it up!

 

[Ideo]

The UN showed its relevance with the war in Iraq. They are still reeling from it!

What. You mean actually looking for the mystical people shredder?

 

[Ideo]

Education to Year 12 is virtually free for all students who attend Public schools. Going on to Tertiary education is a choice! If you choose to continue to study, you should pay.
Most of these students are over 18 and able to vote, thus, are seen by society as "Adults". Hence, they need to make Adult decisions regarding their futures. Paying HECS debts is not new.
These students know full well which career paths (Degrees) are overloaded and should structure their choices to areas whereby on graduating they have a far greater likelihood of attaining a Job/Career in which they can earn very good salaries. Paying back the debt once earning over 53k is not unreasonable considering their earning potential.
Both my daughters attended Uni and both have now paid off their debt through sheer hard work whilst at Uni and from their salaries after starting in their chosen careers. Thankfully, both realise it was a PRIVILEGE to be able to gain Higher Education which has allowed them to earn high paying incomes. Something they were both prepared to PAY for.

I don't disagree with that. I don't think free tertiary education is attainable in the current economic climate. I have a HECS debt, I deal with it. Not a problem.

However, I don't want to see a situation where costs dramatically increase because that will lead to a lack of class mobility. Which is a problem.

That said, I don't think there should be a push for 50% of people to get a university education like was espoused in the UK. It leads to pointless degrees and no jobs to support them.

I also think there should be a move away from increasing tafe fees and the like, because that will have a significantly negative effect on how people from a poorer background can develop new, employable, skills.

 

[HotRod]

I am defending the right of all young people to receive a university education based on their individual merit and not their wealth or their family's wealth. I will never tell a young person that the quality of their education depends on their capacity to pay.

I did not see anything in my son's uni application form how much he earns, his family earns or how much he or we have, saved.

Where is that exactly?

 

[Beanie Girl]

Has paid his way through uni and now looking at an investment unit at the age of 19, bless his soul.

I did not see anything in my son's uni application form how much he earns, his family earns or how much he or we have, saved.

Where is that exactly?

Your son signed up for Uni before the proposed changes to Uni fees in the Budget. He has finished Uni you say? Good on him, he will not be affected in the slightest bit as he has paid his way through Uni. Not even the slightest sceptre of a HECS debt to be paid back at interest rates of 6% will haunt him.

 

[Scott No Mates]

Isn't that more an achievement than something to be derided BG?

 

[Beanie Girl]

Your son signed up for Uni before the proposed changes to Uni fees in the Budget. He has finished Uni you say? Good on him, he will not be affected in the slightest bit as he has paid his way through Uni. Not even the slightest sceptre of a HECS debt to be paid back at interest rates of 6% will haunt him.

Isn't that more an achievement than something to be derided BG?

Huh? I didn't deride Hot Rod's son. I agree it's an achievement and said so. I said, 'Good on him, he will not be affected in the slightest bit as he has paid his way through Uni' (I praised Hot Rod's son for working hard to pay his own way, I know he tutored and is tutoring, doesn't go out much, doesn't spend much). I give praise where praise is due. Are you needing your glasses again, Scott?

 

[Dazz]

I am making a positive contribution.

Just looked back at the first 10 posts in this thread.

Off track or what ??

 

[Beanie Girl]

I'll take a crack at this.

Students get welfare if they are poor, to pay their living expenses. I have no problem with this.

Universities have been bleating about being further deregulated for some time, so they can charge more to enable them to compete more effectively. I think caps need to remain on tuition fees to keep costs manageable.

I don't think university should be free. Australians already get 13 years of free education.

I further think students should have to pay back their fees, and I think the HECS/HELP system was good for that. If people leave the country, I think bilateral tax agreements should include provision for collecting HECS/HELP debts.

Charging interest above the real cost I disagree with. The government takes a deliberate decision to subsidise university education, but allowing debts to grow to unmanageably large sizes is not good policy.

^ +1 Excellent analysis.

 

[Crabnet]

I am making a positive contribution. I am defending the right of all young people to receive a university education based on their individual merit and not their wealth or their family's wealth. I will never tell a young person that the quality of their education depends on their capacity to pay.

I read an interesting article recently that suggested uncapping university course charges, aligning the maximum amount chargeable with the amount they charge an overseas student will lead to a two tier university system
Elite institutions that will spend big on gyms, pools, sporting facilities and educational resources and charge appropriately.
Alongside budget universities offering cheaper degrees and distance education via the internet at bargain basement prices.

 

[gooram]

I read an interesting article recently that suggested uncapping university course charges, aligning the maximum amount chargeable with the amount they charge an overseas student will lead to a two tier university system
Elite institutions that will spend big on gyms, pools, sporting facilities and educational resources and charge appropriately.
Alongside budget universities offering cheaper degrees and distance education via the internet at bargain basement prices.

Of course it will. And what happens then? Degrees from 'Elite' institutions will be worth more, and the price will continue to go up as those that can afford it, fight for places.

 

[HotRod]

Your son signed up for Uni before the proposed changes to Uni fees in the Budget. He has finished Uni you say? Good on him, he will not be affected in the slightest bit as he has paid his way through Uni. Not even the slightest sceptre of a HECS debt to be paid back at interest rates of 6% will haunt him.

And yet he got off his butt, worked hard and paid his way through uni, which he has another two years to go, BTW.

But he signed up knowing that the units he chose could cost anything, depending on the units he chose.

I fail to see how his own choices in units should be paid by someone else. I just can't see it.

The days of a free uni education are gone, long gone.

The sooner uni students realise that the privilege of a uni education can lead to high paying careers, which they can choose, may come with a debt, the better. That is not an impediment going in. They can pay it off during their time at uni instead of going out each weekend and partying spending $200 a night. It's their choice how they want to live life.

There's nothing to stop a smart kid from a poor family to go to uni and become some medical specialist earning millions a year. Nothing.

Read my signature. It might give you a hint.