Solar Power and Greenhouse Gas reduction

Just been researching domestic solar power. I have found that a simple system can be built which uses no battery banks (highest maintenance part) and is connected to the electricity grid.

The power you generate is stored in the grid for your use. Basically during the day your solar cells are operating at the highest capacity and your usage is typically low. At this point your electricity meter should be spinning backwards creating a power credit for you.

In the evening and night when you are running lights, telly, dishwasher etc you are then drawing power from the grid and using up the stored power. ideally this should work out cost neutral but not for my family I am embarrassed to admit.

This is not a setup for the remote home away from the power grid but is for those of us who wish to reduce reliance on generated power in the simplest way possible.

I started to run some figures using my recent power bill. What a surprise I had to see how much power we are using. My first foray into reducing my dependence on coal fired power is to try to reduce my family's consumption of power. They already see me as an eccentric who wanders around switching off lights and TVs in empty rooms muttering away but my wife and kids just don't see the waste as I do - perhaps it is because I came from a poor family and lived for some time with my Grandmother who was a product of the depression. I had to get a week out of my brown paper bag and greaseproof paper wrapping my sandwiches - folded it up and brought it home each day..... my kids think I am a dinosaur when I tell them stories like that.

My wife thinks nothing of firing up a 2000w fan heater at her feet while she studies but will not dress warmer or even close the door to the room. 2000w is the equivalent of having 20 x 100w lights burning. Equivalent of 140+ of those low wattage eco lights we can buy these days.....

This heater, I have calculated, costs 22c ph to run. Doesn't sound much but it is adding about 20% to our power bill by my back of the envelope calcs. How do I explain this to her without her feeling that I am trying to make her less comfortable for a measly 22c ph. Should I even attempt it? Would it be better to convert it to tonnes of CO2 instead of dollars?

Anyway back to the solar setup. More info is available here.

To buy the largest one possible with 15 solar panels and having it installed will cost me $25K after Govt and Industry rebates. It will generate 10KW/hrs per day.

Given that we currently use 22KW/hrs it wont even cover half of our power needs at this current rate. But should cut our power bill by 40%, or under $500pa at todays price.

At that rate and assuming no maintenance is needed we will have recouped our investment in 58 years at today's electricity price .......

Seems the greatest investment in terms of reducing our energy consumption costs is still me wandering around of an evening turning off lights and tellies and muttering to myself.
 
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Simon said:
Seems the greatest investment in terms of reducing our energy consumption costs is still me wandering around of an evening turning off lights and tellies and muttering to myself.

A classic conclusion to an informative story...well done.

Simon, take comfort in the fact you are in very good company with these actions. I'm told the Queen has been doing the very same thing at Buckingham Palace for decades.
 
None of which takes into account the pollution caused and energy used to refine the raw materials, and manufacture the solar equipment, very large amounts of energy are required to produce solar panels, hundreds of years at the maximum output for 12 hour days of the final product. the chemical doping of the purified silicon leaves arsenides, selenium, heaps of toxic chemicals.
ecologically sound?, don't go solar
 
Simon said:
Seems the greatest investment in terms of reducing our energy consumption costs is still me wandering around of an evening turning off lights and tellies and muttering to myself.

Simon,

Great thread!

I've also come to much the same conclusion.. less heating, less cooling, less lights.. less washing, less tumble-drying.. In addition I'm starting to put in a lot of fruit and nut trees and am going to get some chooks for eggs, and will plant a few veges.. so there's a lowering in energy consumption through less food production and transport.. I'm going to plant more trees around the house to shade it in summer and I'm putting overhead fans in the living and bedrooms for cooling (much cheaper and really quite effective).. Like AlmostBob I see Solar as a Toyota Prearse type solution.. might give the Cafe Late set some warm and fuzzies, but its not an environmentally effective solution at this point.. For fun I'm thinking of tinkering with some little wind generators.. but dont anticipate actually generating much more than enough to power a few low wattage lights.

The only real answer currently is significant reduction in our consumption of energy and goods produced with petro-chemicals (gee, almost everything).. Funnily enough, I'm finding that the process of reducing my "ecological footprint" is actually delivering significant satisfaction and its increasing my quality of life.
 
Any good links where i could read up more about this topic. The cost & energy used in producing the items & also how to reduce my eco-footprint.

Geoff
 
We have some family friends who are 700 kilometres west of Adelaide; an area where they don't have access to power, water, or gas. The distance between the entrance to their property, and the house, is about 2 kilometres, so it wasn't feasible to get a connection made.

So, they have installed a solar tower, which is basically a vertical "shed" with an angled roof pointing towards north, at an angle of their latitude south. On this roof are 4 large solar panels. With this set-up, they are able to run most electrical appliances, but do have to mindful about what they run. It's only the 2 of them.

They have to be mindful of things such as, using an iron in the morning of a sunny day, to recoup the power lost from using it. Even a washing machine requires this kind of consideration. As for heating, it wouldn't be possible for them to have any sort of electrical heater, thus they have a wood combustion heater.

As for cost, it is a big plus for them not having to pay an electrical company like AGL for their power use, but the maintenance of the battery system does make running this set-up somewhat comparable, (although on the more expensive side), to grid power.

They have recently bought a wind turbine, but have yet to install it, and this would make the system much more reliable, especially during the winter months.

It is an impressive set-up, and I would love to do something similar one day, through building an environmentally friendly house that is self sustaining. It would be awesome. :)
 
Links to saving water and energy

Hi,

as a Sustainability Officer in local government, Ive very recently put together the following fact sheets on my Council's website: http://www.kmc.nsw.gov.au/index.cfm?objectId=ADACD217-BCE2-5326-8670EC5B0B4F8C55

(I hoped that worked).

Anyway, you should find factsheets on everything from draught proofing your home right through to installing cogeneration equipment to air condition a large scale building.

There are also online tests so you can find out exactly how efficient your home is compared to other Australian homes and also links to suppliers of energy and water efficient products and services.

Id be really happy to get some feedback on whether this site covers what info you're after. ...and if there is anything I havent covered please let me know and Ill endeavour to research it for you.

Regards

Louise.
[email protected]
 
AlmostBob said:
None of which takes into account the pollution caused and energy used to refine the raw materials, and manufacture the solar equipment, very large amounts of energy are required to produce solar panels, hundreds of years at the maximum output for 12 hour days of the final product. the chemical doping of the purified silicon leaves arsenides, selenium, heaps of toxic chemicals.
ecologically sound?, don't go solar


Cannot find much info on this.

But did see this one:

Cost effectiveness

The current cost of solar panels, and other renewable energy systems, means that grid-interactive systems are not as cost effective as relying purely on the grid for electricity. In spite of this, many people are choosing to install grid-interactive solar systems, as they do not create any greenhouse gases when generating electricity, unlike coal-fired power plants. Numerous studies have demonstrated that the equivalent amount of electricity used to make a solar panel is generated by the panel within the first two years of operation, hence a solar panel will repay its greenhouse gas 'debt' within this time.
 
Simon said:
Cannot find much info on this.
http://www.manicore.com/anglais/documentation_a/solar.html, refers to french experiments but the details are close to correct for Aus, still doesnt include the mining and refining of source ores, just the actual manufacture of the articles from refined metals, very long article, a good read

Excerpt .......In 2002, the french electricity production amounted to 550 TW.h (1 TW.h = 1 billion kW.h).The annual production of a photovoltaic panel is 100 kWh per m2, at least for the largest part of Europe.
If we only consider gross outputs, we should cover 5,000,000,000 m2 to get the same amout of electricity, that is 5.000 km2. It is indeed a lot in absolute figures, but if we compare it to the total surface of France (which is over 500.000 km2), we see that it represents only 1% of the metropolitan surface. And, most of all, the surface that is already built (excluding roads) amounts to 10.000 km2 (see figures on urbanization).

By covering only half of the existing roof surface with solar panels, we could thus produce something that is of the same magnitude than our present electricity consumption, that is something which is between 20 and 40% of our total energy consumption, depending on the way we calculate it (see explanations here)...........
 
there are people here putting solar water heaters on the roofs in Nova Scotia.
even when it is minus 20, there is enough energy in the light in the 4 hours of sunshine that is winter, to make them worthwile.
The cost is much lower than Photovoltaic cells, and the efficiency seems higher, even including the 6 watts for the pump off the grid
Because of the cold water heaters use antifreeze in the coils and a heat exchanger to heat the water, not direct flow and switch off when its really cold
 
Wind power, needs generators along every bit of coastline to get a good wind, => so it needs thousands of Km of roads and the cables to tie them all together
Solar, estimates needed 5% of the country covered with solar panels
Both need hundred thousands of rock tons mined to extract the 1% and less ores into metals, using heaps of energy from existing sources, and are not always available
Oil, coal and gas will run out, just cant tell when
Nuclear accidents, nuclear waste scare the **expletive deleted** out of me
BioFuels alcohols from corn etc, just remove that much arable land from food growing, and use most of the production to fuel the producer

diesel from waste fish frying oils is better than dumping it
anything low tech that can be made from recyclable products, the way to go

2c worth
 
BioFuels alcohols from corn etc, just remove that much arable land from food growing, and use most of the production to fuel the producer

diesel from waste fish frying oils is better than dumping it
anything low tech that can be made from recyclable products, the way to go

2c worth

I did read that Biofuels are Greenhouse Gas neutral as the act of growing them is of benefit to the environment. The real danger is that more rainforest is cleared to plant this cash crop of the future.

There is a growing group of biodiesel home brewers in Melbourne and other major centres. I read that it is suitable for older diesel engines but it will reduce the lifespan of the engine - this is considered economical in older vehicles.

What is a real crime is that we are using the dwindling pool of petro chemicals to burn for fuel or to manufacture single usage packaging. It is awful that I throw out so much plastic after I put away the weekly groceries. Many items are double packaged. Plastic bags inside cardboard boxes of everything from cereal to wash powder. Toothpaste tubes inside cardboard etc.

Fortunately tyhe emerging generations are well aware of this problem and take recycling for granted, hopefully they will develop better and better initiatives to save resources.
 
Good Thread, Simon.

We've been thinking hard about going solar power but it can't currently be justified on cost alone. The $25K it would cost post-rebates as you say would take a long time to recoup as an investment. You may even be better off using the $25K buying bank shares and using the dividend to pay for your power bill after changing to Green power option from the provider.

Our conclusion for solar power was to buy a home with systems already installed but not pay the premium for it.

On the topic of going around turning off lights etc, is it an urban myth that it costs more energy to turn lights on and off than to leave it on if the duration is only short?

Regards,

Kenny
 
On the topic of going around turning off lights etc, is it an urban myth that it costs more energy to turn lights on and off than to leave it on if the duration is only short?


There is a persistent myth that this is true for fluoro tubes.. that the start up cost is the equivalent of "x" hours of operation..

From : http://www.chugachelectric.com/energy/lighting.html

"It is a myth that it costs more to turn off fluorescent lights than to leave them on. This was true in the 1940’s when fluorescent lamps first became popular because it greatly shortened lamp life. Today’s lamps aren’t as affected by start up damage. Their lives are shortened by unneeded hours of operation. The energy surge to start up the lamps is so small it’s cheaper to switch them off."
 
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