Spain's housing bubble. Bigger'n our's.

but this guy reckons it's riding for a fall:

This Stock Market Could Collapse
By Tom Dyson

A friend is looking for work in London's financial industry…

"My timing is bad," he told me on the phone. "Most of the big banks have hiring freezes at the moment, so I haven't had much luck. A strange thing happened last month though..."

"I used to work at Barclays Capital. Three weeks ago, I got a call out of the blue from one of my old bosses. He said his team is financing a new subprime lending business in Madrid, and he wanted me to apply for the COO position."

"I was amazed that they came looking for me... especially in this environment. So I went to a couple of interviews and everything seemed to be going pretty well. They asked me to come in for one final meeting... they said they wanted to offer me the job and this final meeting was just a formality. Anyway, as I'm walking to the train station, I get a phone call. It's my old boss. He tells me Barclays have pulled their financing and the whole gig is off."

Spain has the largest property bubble in the world. Since 1996, Spanish median house prices, after adjusting for inflation, have risen 130%. That's the third-largest increase among OECD economies – the so-called "developed" economies. (Ireland and Britain are No. 1 and 2, respectively). However, since 2000, Spanish house prices have doubled. That's more than any other country in the western hemisphere... even Ireland or the U.K.

Not only are prices extremely high... they've become totally unaffordable. The house price-to-income ratio is one measure this. In Spain, the ratio is more than seven. In other words, on average, in Spain, people's houses are worth seven times their annual pre-tax income.

Compare this to the U.S., where the median nation household income for 2006 was $48,201, and the median house price was $212,000... a ratio of 4:5.

The supply of houses in Spain has also gone crazy. Last year, 800,000 houses were under construction in Spain... that's more than in Italy, Germany, and France combined... and just less than half the houses under construction in the U.S. (The U.S. population is six times bigger than Spain's.)

In the U.S., the construction industry makes up 8% of the total labor force. In Spain, 13% of the labor force works in construction and construction investment measures 18% of Spanish GDP, up from 11% in 1998.

In America, when the consumer gets into trouble, the Fed simply cuts interest rates and stimulates the economy with cheap cash. Spain can't do this. The European bureaucrats in Brussels control Spanish interest rates. Rates are set mainly to German and French considerations. This is why Spanish interest rates fell from 12% in 1999, when they still used the peseta as the official currency, to 2% in 2005, under the European Central Bank and the euro currency.

Now, European interest rates are rising. They're up to 4% from 2% 18 months ago.

In America, many people think the huge number of adjustable-rate mortgages issued by the subprime lenders over the past few years could bring down the consumer. But in the U.S., only 50% of mortgages come with adjustable rates. In Spain, 90% of mortgages are issued with adjustable rates. So the Spanish consumer is much more sensitive to rate hikes than the American consumer.

In sum, I think the Spanish economy is in big trouble. And because the Spanish central bank has no power to cut interest rates, I think house prices in Spain and the Spanish stock market are going to experience heavy falls.

I first voiced this opinion on June 5, 2007, with my column called "Spain Is in Big Trouble." At the time, the Spanish stock index – the IBEX35 – was trading above 15,300. It's now at 13,900... a 10% decline in three months.

My friend confirms that bankers are finally pulling money out of Spain's housing market, I suspect the next leg down is imminent...

Good investing,

Tom
 
Tom

I have been to Spain many times over the last few years and agree with everything you have said, the building boom is extraordinary but so is the infrastructure, roads, wind generation, bridges, the whole place is just buzzing, I have travelled both North, South and Central Spain and the whole country is abuzz.

The one thing that really hit me was that it is not the Spainish that are buying the property it is the British, it is a complete takeover.

My sister from England has purchased a house way up in the hills, an hour from Malaga, she bought it from a British Developer who is in partnership with a local Spanish builder. They had sold 8 new properties in the last couple of years, all to British purchasers.

The price of Spanish housing is cheap in comparison to purchasing a house in the London area (including the home counties here), most of the people I spoke to have purchased the house in Spain with the intention of retiring there, selling their English house, investing the money and living in the Sun in Spain.

Apparently there are other areas where many germans have settled as well.

I believe that a recession in Britain will have a huge effect on Spain.

Just my observations from travelling around.

Regards
Chris
 
Sunfish,

The major difference between Aus and Spain is the population.

They are 40 Million Spaniards living in Spain, probably another 10 million of them live overseas
and ofcource there are another 450 million people in the rest of the EU who have the right to buy properties in Spain. (probably many of them would be queing up to buy properties there).

Cheers
 
Seems the British are leaving the Isles in droves.
Maybe it is something to do with seeking a sunnier lifestyle.

Maybe because of housing prices in UK, and the ageing population trying to balance their budget or live off equity in retirement.

Maybe to get away from the issues brought about by a liberal approach to immigration from developing nations.


In 2005, 565,000 people immigrated into the UK (the majority from developing nations), and 380,000 left the UK. The most popular destinations for those leaving are Australia, Spain, and France.

http://www.migrationwatchuk.org/Briefingpapers/migration_trends/forecastingmigration.asp
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom#Migration_and_ethnicity
 
"However, since 2000, Spanish house prices have doubled. "

isn't this the minimum standard that most buy and holders seek? i.e. doubles every 7 years... the spanish experience hardly sounds remarkable.
 
Winston

Those figures are for those that have actually left the British Isles, it is not counting the thousands that have bought homes and spend every long weekend and holiday going to Spain to their holiday houses. They will not be counted until they finally retire.

On my last visit in July, I did notice that the resale of apartments along the Coast from Malaga to Nerja had gone down slightly from my previous visit 6 months before. The new apartments were more expensive, particularly those built around the spectacular golf courses.

Chris
 


Willair, interesting story. I think there is some truth that developed nations are shifting in sentiment from a from a cycle of greed to a cycle of fear.....

I think it is worth a thread of its own to discuss whether it is better to be big in cash or big in fixed interest debt at the beginning of a cycle of fear.....

Think I'd rather be owing the bank fixed rate money then them owing me if there is to be another feezing of global capital....So that means keep leveraging into greater debt....

Anyway, interesting times.....all this migration of different races is driving home how the relative stability we had in the second half of the 20th century was probably the exception not the rule.....
 
While I am no expert, comparing a country in Europe, versus Australia is fraught with issues....totally different countries,, economies, politics, land mass etc. etc. :eek:
 
While I am no expert, comparing a country in Europe, versus Australia is fraught with issues....totally different countries,, economies, politics, land mass etc. etc. :eek:

true HA, but at the end of the day, we are all linked together in an ever increasing global economy....

read (seriously read) this article (for starters) to get an idea of how the west's trade deficits are being subsudized by higher savings rates countries...

Seems developed nations in general have hypnotised themselves into believing they deserve a better lifestyle then nations prepared to work harder and smarter and be more conscious of where they invest/spend their hard earnt mulah.........yes racism is alive and well. it comes in the form of many caucasians believing they have earnt a materially more luxurious life, for ever less effort....
 
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I think it is worth a thread of its own to discuss whether it is better to be big in cash or big in fixed interest debt at the beginning of a cycle of fear.....
TFB,imho that's the question several would be asking themselves i know you
can ride out any investment cycle if your money is spread out enough..
I'm not sure about any cycle of fear,all the media are diliberately side-tracking
the problems that are out there in international money markets
and with the vast amount of information out there for investors
just think if the Internet was around when Edward de Bono invented
his techniques of Lateral Thinking in the 70's:) ..willair..http://business.timesonline.co.uk/t...ectors/banking_and_finance/article2469784.ece
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/t...ectors/banking_and_finance/article2469784.ece
 
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