Hi. I'm building a double storey on a block of land that slopes towards the back of the property. To keep costs down and get rid of the need for planning approvals, I was thinking of simply cutting and filling to the back. This would still give me a split level home, but would also mean that the front of the house will be below street level (but behind a fence). However, having talked it over with a few people, the consensus appears to be having the front at least level with the street to maximise future property value. Would appreciate anybody's thoughts on this.
Split Level
- Thread starter bayswater
- Start date
I bought an investment property that the house is built lower than the road, with the driveway sloping down towards house. Apparently it's bad feng shui and Asian's would not buy it. I don't have a problem with it, and it survived the Brisbane floods without any drama's. You would be cutting out a lot of the market when selling in future. My parent's tried to talk me out of buying the property because they didn't like the fact it was lower than street level. It was about $60,000 cheaper than other properties in the area.
Unless you are in a dead flat ex farmland plain, you are always going to have a high side and low side of the street. High side is worth more than a low side due to its street presence.
That being said, unless it was on a really steep slope and the roof was at street height, it wouldnt put me off. Too severe a slope can cause all kinds of drainage issues that can cost thousands or even tens of thousands to remedy.
That being said, unless it was on a really steep slope and the roof was at street height, it wouldnt put me off. Too severe a slope can cause all kinds of drainage issues that can cost thousands or even tens of thousands to remedy.
This is a subjective question.
Now look, I understand real estate formulas and all that, but in the end, what it comes down to is the end product, and what it cost you to produce that end product.
The 2 important ideas for you to think about are
1 the cost of building on the site. If you have a hugely slanted slope it can cost tens of thousands in civil works/retaining walls and all that jazz.
2 design the building so that it complements the site. I know of many marina estate sites that slope down towards the rear of the property, where the water is. They put the living areas at the back, overlooking the water. That completely upends the frontage rule of having the property looking great on the streetscape, because we have multi million properties doing the opposite! and maximising their amenity.
Now, getting back to reduced elevation properties - dont think that having a downwards facing property is a bad thing. It is often the opposite. Having a property with a steep driveway can often give you a great deal of privacy, because no one can look over into your land. One of my cousins properties is like this - you go down a steepish driveway, but when you get into the yard/living, you feel like youre in your own private world.
So what it really comes down to is what youd like to do, what you would like to create etc for whatever reason. But the point blank thing that I will say to you based on my experience as a builder/developer is to go with the site. Dont change the site to suit your idea. If you want something flat, buy a block that is flat. If you want something staggered, buy a block that is staggered. Dont fight the site. Use it for what its good for, or buy something else that suits your idea better. Change the site, to suit your idea, by buying a better site in the first place. Earthworks are unneccessary unless you just love the site and want to live there eventually. In that case, good luck to you. But its a bad developing decision. Youre just adding obstacles/pain.
Whatever you do good luck, but as usual, be a complete financial athiest. make decisions based on fact, and money. When emotion gets involved, or if youre hell bent to develop that site...thats when you get problems. 5 figure problems.
Now look, I understand real estate formulas and all that, but in the end, what it comes down to is the end product, and what it cost you to produce that end product.
The 2 important ideas for you to think about are
1 the cost of building on the site. If you have a hugely slanted slope it can cost tens of thousands in civil works/retaining walls and all that jazz.
2 design the building so that it complements the site. I know of many marina estate sites that slope down towards the rear of the property, where the water is. They put the living areas at the back, overlooking the water. That completely upends the frontage rule of having the property looking great on the streetscape, because we have multi million properties doing the opposite! and maximising their amenity.
Now, getting back to reduced elevation properties - dont think that having a downwards facing property is a bad thing. It is often the opposite. Having a property with a steep driveway can often give you a great deal of privacy, because no one can look over into your land. One of my cousins properties is like this - you go down a steepish driveway, but when you get into the yard/living, you feel like youre in your own private world.
So what it really comes down to is what youd like to do, what you would like to create etc for whatever reason. But the point blank thing that I will say to you based on my experience as a builder/developer is to go with the site. Dont change the site to suit your idea. If you want something flat, buy a block that is flat. If you want something staggered, buy a block that is staggered. Dont fight the site. Use it for what its good for, or buy something else that suits your idea better. Change the site, to suit your idea, by buying a better site in the first place. Earthworks are unneccessary unless you just love the site and want to live there eventually. In that case, good luck to you. But its a bad developing decision. Youre just adding obstacles/pain.
Whatever you do good luck, but as usual, be a complete financial athiest. make decisions based on fact, and money. When emotion gets involved, or if youre hell bent to develop that site...thats when you get problems. 5 figure problems.
At Bayswater??
Ocean Architec your post is one of the best l have read on SS for some time regarding building.
"Dont fight the site"
We are currently looking at retaining a block and building. We have been throwing around all kind of ideas that would cost us bucket loads.
Thanks to your post l am going to stand back and really take a good look at the site and work with it.
Hope you have saved me a lot of $$$s and heart ache.
Thankyou again
cheers
yadreamin
"Dont fight the site"
We are currently looking at retaining a block and building. We have been throwing around all kind of ideas that would cost us bucket loads.
Thanks to your post l am going to stand back and really take a good look at the site and work with it.
Hope you have saved me a lot of $$$s and heart ache.
Thankyou again
cheers
yadreamin
Im going to regret this, but PM me your title document/details (so that I know your easements, frontage, dimensions etc) and your state (planning schemes change from state to state, so I need to know where it is) as well as what you're trying to build - owner occupier wanting to live there vs investor wanting to build something for rent and profit etc - and I'll have a play for you.
I cant guarantee success, because in the NT our houses are cyclone shelters, but itll be a fun exercise and may save you a considerable sum. Plus you have access to my draftsperson, engineer, and might avoid the use of an architect.
Oh if it works, I want a cruise. Thanks
I cant guarantee success, because in the NT our houses are cyclone shelters, but itll be a fun exercise and may save you a considerable sum. Plus you have access to my draftsperson, engineer, and might avoid the use of an architect.
Oh if it works, I want a cruise. Thanks
Thanks all.
@INVSTOR - Yes, building in Bayswater in Perth WA
@Rexilla99 - there are some views - mainly city glimpses and to the southeast (hills). The block and surrounds is on a hilly area.
@OceanArchitect - Your advice to not fight the site is sound advice - my architect actually designed the house to work with the site, and in my opinion, it works well. I just got a bit thrown off when the few people I spoke to said it was better to build up to street level.
If you guys are interested, here's what I'm doing:
There is a 2m slope from the street front to one corner of the land. Sounds like a lot, but there will be three levels: from the street to the front lawn and front part of the house; from the front part of the house to the rear living/kitchen/dining/alfresco; and from the rear of the house to a little corner (which will be a vegie patch I'm thinking).
By stepping down the front lawn (three steps) from the street, I think there is added privacy to the front. A multi-purpose room at the front of the house (which can be used either as a study, guest or playroom) will open out into the front lawn. The plan is to plant trees/foliage against the front fence to add to the privacy and sense of enclosure to the front. Having said this, I drove around my current neighbourhood last night (which is also a little hilly) and there are many houses below street level, and the best ones have made the most of the sense of enclosure/privacy.
Stepping down into the rear of the house means added height to the living area. Adds to the sense of space I think.
And finally stepping down into the last little corner of the land (the lowest point) could act as a drainage point if there is heavy rain. I might lose the vegies but hey, better them than my house right.
@INVSTOR - Yes, building in Bayswater in Perth WA
@Rexilla99 - there are some views - mainly city glimpses and to the southeast (hills). The block and surrounds is on a hilly area.
@OceanArchitect - Your advice to not fight the site is sound advice - my architect actually designed the house to work with the site, and in my opinion, it works well. I just got a bit thrown off when the few people I spoke to said it was better to build up to street level.
If you guys are interested, here's what I'm doing:
There is a 2m slope from the street front to one corner of the land. Sounds like a lot, but there will be three levels: from the street to the front lawn and front part of the house; from the front part of the house to the rear living/kitchen/dining/alfresco; and from the rear of the house to a little corner (which will be a vegie patch I'm thinking).
By stepping down the front lawn (three steps) from the street, I think there is added privacy to the front. A multi-purpose room at the front of the house (which can be used either as a study, guest or playroom) will open out into the front lawn. The plan is to plant trees/foliage against the front fence to add to the privacy and sense of enclosure to the front. Having said this, I drove around my current neighbourhood last night (which is also a little hilly) and there are many houses below street level, and the best ones have made the most of the sense of enclosure/privacy.
Stepping down into the rear of the house means added height to the living area. Adds to the sense of space I think.
And finally stepping down into the last little corner of the land (the lowest point) could act as a drainage point if there is heavy rain. I might lose the vegies but hey, better them than my house right.
Your plans sound nice. I was really tempted to buy one of these riverfront blocks. http://www.realestate.com.au/property-residential+land-wa-bayswater-2804066
@INVSTOR: Yeah that's a good spot. It's really in the Ashfield area, which if they carry through on their planning for the area should become a great spot. There's talk of relocating the train line and creating a town centre and rezoning the light industrial to commercial, office and med-high density residential (think Claremont in 10 years time but with the added benefit of being closer to the river). A spur off the main train line towards the airport is also in the works I think.
It will be nice if all the things you said go ahead as well as shopping precinct and cafe's. I've got a block 80m from the river in Ashfield so I'm looking forward to the changes outlined in the Ashfield Precint Plan. That little pocket in Bayswater beside Ashfield is changing rapidly, there's lots of demolition and building going on.
Here's some positive news for Ashfield. It would be great if the MRA get involved. The minutes from Ashfieldcan show crime is down. Should be a positive for Bayswater too.
http://www.ashfieldcan.info/
Here's some positive news for Ashfield. It would be great if the MRA get involved. The minutes from Ashfieldcan show crime is down. Should be a positive for Bayswater too.
http://www.ashfieldcan.info/
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