State of the Property Market

And still no logic just gut feel :p

I respect your opinion but merely ask for a basis for it other than speculation. It like Lehman brothers before the GFC selling MBS saying they were risk free - there is no such thing as we now know.

I've spent lots of time analysing the market over the last few years . I'm not going to go into an in depth presentation / discussion every time a D & G merchant asks me .

I've got better things to do with my time .

eg helping people who actually want it rather than going through endless repetitious debates

Cliff
 
And still no logic just gut feel :p

I respect your opinion but merely ask for a basis for it other than speculation. It like Lehman brothers before the GFC selling MBS saying they were risk free - there is no such thing as we now know.

what does your lecturer think about where the market will be in 2 years? i remember you quoting him in the past
 
what does your lecturer think about where the market will be in 2 years? i remember you quoting him in the past

I bet in 2 years time he'll still be teaching at said college. This is why I don't even bother telling people where to buy. I just tell them where I am buying and ask them to do their own research but at least I put my money where my mouth is and don't hide behind dud predictions.
 
I'm willing to bet nobody here can reliably predict, with reference to hard facts or data, where the Sydney property market will be in two years.

The Sydney market will be in Sydney in 2 years time!
Now how much you willing to bet?
Good thing nobody can predict....
26-08-2006, 06:08 PM
You don't have have grey hair to remember a recession.

A recession is the opposite of a Boom.
In a boom, most have money to invest and support lifestyle.
In a recession, most are borrowed to their limits, few can afford to buy more, demand collapses, investment prices fall, living expenses rise.
As more people run out of credit or spending power, demand slows, the recession prolongs and turns into a depression.

M.Y. states that we had a recession but "we did'nt know it". :confused:
This really surprises me coming from someone who touts 30yrs in RE, for all those investors that I know (hundreds) that went through the recessions of the 90's, 80's and 70's and before (my dad was born in 1926 btw) will never forget them.
There is still too much liquidity imho for a prolonged recession, but that liquidity does'nt seem headed for the RE market, instead I would say it's going to the share market for the next 3-4 years.
If that liquidity ends, we may be in for a stock market crash, followed by a *real* recession for a few more years.
By then interest rates may be 12-13%, metro RE rental yields 9%, inflation 6%, un-employement 9%, petrol $2 ltr, bread & milk $5.
We will reminisce about the "good ol days" when we could borrow @ 6%, houses were affordable, petrol was $1 ltr, and credit was easy.
By that time the baby boomers will mostly be inactive (or in hell for their 60's sexual revolution) the economy will have slowed down, inflation & interest even higher, and 12% seemed a good rate.
Then ...when night seems darkest, morning begins...again.

Now back to enjoying the good life while I still can. :cool:
What really happened was things were so bad that interest rate rises would've meant mass repos resulting in trillions lost by the banks (they are insolvent as it's a ponzi scheme) just like japan, then the US, which the RBA would not allow.
But close enough.

And Sea Change's record is here as well.
http://somersoft.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10636


What some of us call "gut feeling" is more like opinion based on years of accumulated experiences in the market, and not from someone who charges you for the honour of hearing it.
 
I bet in 2 years time he'll still be teaching at said college. This is why I don't even bother telling people where to buy. I just tell them where I am buying and ask them to do their own research but at least I put my money where my mouth is and don't hide behind dud predictions.

I am not hiding behind any dud prediction, ive bought property myself - actually, i never said that I disagree with what sea_change was saying, im just interested in the facts - all i see is a whole lot of supposition.
 
You didnt happen to use any supposition when purchasing your investment did you Mr Tambourineman?

no I relied on the supposition of others.

all investment relies on some form of speculation, but there should be some reason behind it.

but what are the facts or underlying reasons to make the broad assumption that in two years time, the Sydney property market (which is already at the highest point has been) will be higher again in two years?
 
And Sea Change's record is here as well.
http://somersoft.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10636

What some of us call "gut feeling" is more like opinion based on years of accumulated experiences in the market, and not from someone who charges you for the honour of hearing it.

Gee , where did you find that one ...

The one I like to drag out is this post

Where I went into more detail .

Simplistically , Sydney's ten year growth one year ago was the lowest , hence the place to buy. ( long term indicator ) . Short term timing was due to a significant change on what was happening in the market . Decrease supply , increase demand , shorter time on the market before selling , properties selling above asking prices , general awareness in most people ( excluding D&G diehards ) that the market is moving . I know this because I actually watch what is going on . There was an awareness of what was going on , on this forum , before it permeated into the media , you just need to know who to believe and who not to ...

Once the market starts moving like this it keeps on moving . ( personal observation ) until it is overpriced . It's not over priced yet . My 24 year old daughter can afford to buy a unit on her own ....not on high income .

It will stop , but not for a while .

Cliff
 
no I relied on the supposition of others.

all investment relies on some form of speculation, but there should be some reason behind it.

but what are the facts or underlying reasons to make the broad assumption that in two years time, the Sydney property market (which is already at the highest point has been) will be higher again in two years?

True, but it's speculation in the form of calculated risk.
The calculation is based on experience of self, others etc.
Sometimes nobody agrees with you, which means if you're right, big rewards will come.
I read lots on the history of banking going back a few hundred years. It's like a broken record even before the first hundred. Which also follows equity markets and property markets.
And every time it's reported as "unprecedented".
There is nothing unprecedented about toxic derivatives and over leverage in the past few hundred years.
It is different that we have reserve banks that print money at will. But it still has to have some value, so the roller coaster (not cycle) repeats.

I won't say this is easy, just that historical knowledge is very helpful in limiting the downside.

The "facts" are differences of opinion in "value" "worth" and "price".
The person buying at the top of the market has a much different idea of value than the one who sold out at 70-80% and waits for opportunities where he sees value.
 
I'm willing to bet nobody here can reliably predict, with reference to hard facts or data, where the Sydney property market will be in two years.

Since 2009 I have been predicting (on this forum and a few others) that the Sydney median house price would approach $1M by the end of 2015 (as measured by the Residex house price index).

My prediction has been mocked incessantly by the bears over the past few years, but it is looking increasingly safe.

Currently the Sydney median house price is at $730K (as of August 2013 according to Residex).

I bought four Sydney houses between 2005 and 2009 on the back of my belief in the Sydney market. Prices are already up about 35% since I started buying, and currently rising pretty fast.
 
What some of us call "gut feeling" is more like opinion based on years of accumulated experiences [B said:
in[/B] the market, and not from someone who charges you for the honour of hearing it.

Good point.
My guess is SC fits this category, those who have invested successfully through 4+ boom/bust cycles.... there are a few around;)
 
I'd like to say 4 + cycles of successful investing .... But some times you learn more from your mistakes

Bought our first house in 89 just at the peak of the boom and it went sideways for seven years.

Also grew up and watched parents move several items and not get the time correct once . Worst was an auction on the same day as the age had a front page article on " property market crashes " ....

Cliff
 
showing your age there...

Not at all, OK 4 cycles, Perth, Perth again, Syd, Melb, USA, that is 5 if you include US, started investing 12 years ago.

I have basically always chased rising markets, or cash flow from day 1, and of course its without saying, I have made some stuff ups along the way, what doesn't kill you makes you stronger:)
 
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Not at all, OK 4 cycles, Perth, Perth again, Syd, Melb, USA, that is 5 if you include US, started investing 12 years ago.

I have basically always chased rising markets, or cash flow from day 1.

ah ok i get it now, i though you meant 4 cycles in the 1 market! i was just being silly anyway :)
 
What do we have here

Rumours About Bad Bank Debts In China Spark Sharp Fall In Asia, Dragging Down Aussie Dollar
http://www.businessinsider.com.au/r...l-in-asia-dragging-down-aussie-dollar-2013-10

The Australian dollar is getting a bit of a smoking this afternoon after concerns emerged about a possible wave of banking defaults in China.

One bank wrote off around $US3.65 billion in bad debt today and there are rumours that there?ll be similar action at other Chinese banks. It?s having a knock-on effect on Asian markets, with the Nikkei down 1.5% and Shanghai down almost 1.2% at lunch
 
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