Steve Navra - Guru or Ghost?

[Ebbie]

Hi Steve/Sim.

Are you any closer to uploading this presentation?

I stumbled across this thread after doing a Google search on the Navra Retail Fund. A friend of mine received a letter today from NavraInvest advising that the fund moved into cash last November and "cannot confirm when a move out of cash and back into the share market might be made".

The letter says the combined total size of both the Navra Retail and Wholesale funds is substantially below the size at which it is economical to successfully run two registered managed investment schemes. From what I understand the letter also says that no further applications are being accepted into the fund.

Can you please provide an update on where the Navra fund is headed? My friend is very stressed because he rang your office and was advised to think about redeeming his units! This would be at a large capital loss even though he has held on since the GFC in the hope the unit price will eventually recover. Given your new feelings/view on the share-market are you closing the fund down and will he be forced to sell at a loss?

 

[Peter Parker]

Hi,

I am struggling to upload my presentation slide show on this topic.

I will email slides and notes to Sim and perhaps he will oblige

Thanks - will look forward to it.

Though I don't think the forum allows .ppt powerpoint attachments, it's possible to convert the slides to a jpg or gif which is easily uploadable.

A very crude way is to use the <printscreen> button, paste onto MS Paint and save as jpg or gif. If the file is too big it can be shrunk using Irfanview etc. Then uploaded here, like others manage to do with pics of their IP, reno, kitchen etc.

Those smart enough to devise computer program share trading alglorithms worth $$$ might have more elegant ways of conversion or at least access to those that do.

My experience though is that good power point presentations don't have many notes. So the method above might not be all that good. Instead it might be better to paraphrase/elaborate from the Power Point in your post here rather than try to copy it word for word (expecially as directly copied PP presentations can come across as shallow).

 

[redwing]

Hi Steve/Sim.

Are you any closer to uploading this presentation?

I stumbled across this thread after doing a Google search on the Navra Retail Fund. A friend of mine received a letter today from NavraInvest advising that the fund moved into cash last November and "cannot confirm when a move out of cash and back into the share market might be made".

The letter says the combined total size of both the Navra Retail and Wholesale funds is substantially below the size at which it is economical to successfully run two registered managed investment schemes. From what I understand the letter also says that no further applications are being accepted into the fund.

Can you please provide an update on where the Navra fund is headed? My friend is very stressed because he rang your office and was advised to think about redeeming his units! This would be at a large capital loss even though he has held on since the GFC in the hope the unit price will eventually recover. Given your new feelings/view on the share-market are you closing the fund down and will he be forced to sell at a loss?

According to the website

Navra Blue Chip Australian Share Retail Fund
FUM as at 27 Jan 2012: 7 million
Navra Blue Chip Australian Share Wholesale Fund
FUM as at 27 Jan 2012: 3 million
Navra Structured Property Fund
FUM as at 31 Dec 2011: 15 million
Navra Asia Pacific Growth Fund
FUM as at 31 Dec 2011: 12 million
Total fund under management: 37 million

Source

The US Fund is long gone and the two new funds (Property & Asia Pacific) would both seem to be aimed at trying to get some much needed growth back for investors who have taken a pounding throughout the GFC

The website advises that they have moved the Australian (retail & wholesale funds) to cash as they consider the short term risk to be excessive.

They also have concerns over the european debt crisis and the possibility of it hitting the australian markets; no one likes a kick in the teeth when your down and they obviously are mitigating the risk to themselves and members?

Your friend already has the loss though, redeeming the units will just be "realising" this loss (in more ways than one?).

 

[amy21322]

The Future of Navrainvest

This letter appears on the Navra website.
Interesting read for those involved with this outfit.
Amy

http://www.navrainvest.com.au/pdf/Letter to Unit Holders 24 01 2012.pdf

 

[oracle]

This letter appears on the Navra website.
Interesting read for those involved with this outfit.
Amy

http://www.navrainvest.com.au/pdf/Letter to Unit Holders 24 01 2012.pdf

Looks like every time the funds go 100% cash, the stock market has a rally. From memory they went 100% cash before March 2009 and again now, although the current rally is smaller compared to 2009, but it's still around 10% from it's recent lows.

Cheers,
Oracle.

 

[MIW]

Interesting thread.
I too followed others advice that nobody will look after your money as well as you do (by RK).
Hence decided on investments that will be totally controlled by me. At least I thought if I made a mistake I will have only myself to blame....
I think we live in a society and age that we don't own up to our responsibilities including being responsible for our wealth building.

 

[Ebbie]

Is anyone here in the Navra Structured Property Fund? A percentage of the funds are invested in the Retail Fund, with the aim of using the cashflow from the Retail Fund to offset the negatively geared properties in the Property fund.

I'm wondering how the Structured Property Fund will continue without the Retail fund? Without the cash flow from the Retail fund there is no "structure"...

 

[amy21322]

Navra Share Funds CLOSED DOWN.

This letter appears on the Navra website.
Interesting read for those involved with this outfit.
Amy

Further to the above, this latest letter on their website says it all...well, almost.

http://www.navrainvest.com.au/pdf/Fund termination letter 13.02.2012.pdf

Amy

 

[Peter Parker]

I can't see this as being very sustainable.

http://www.navrainvest.com.au/Our_People lists 4 (presumably full time) workers, 3 non-exec directors and two others as a compliance committee.

I doubt any will work for free.

Renting even a small office in North Sydney won't come cheap.

Overheads might be $1-2m pa all up.

http://www.navrainvest.com.au/HOME says there is $31m under management.

To pay overheads you'd have be taking about 5% of that each and every year - no matter whether the performance is good bad or indifferent.

There's lots of minus signs here http://www.navrainvest.com.au/index.asp?pageid=1&pagetype=static_content_single

But even if you had an OK year - eg 10% up - then half would have to be taken to meet costs, leaving a miserable 5% left over - ie term deposit type returns - not adjusting for risk or tax.

The costs just look excessive compared to likely returns. A managed fund really needs to be several times bigger than $31m (or staffing a lot leaner) for its costs not to gobble up most of the returns.

It's been an interesting learning experience.

It teaches the lesson, alluded to above, that collectivism, pooling or merging funds does not necessary lower risk, and investing 'experts' aren't necessarily better than 'amateurs'. (similarly mergers between those already big does not improve management or reduce risk, though it does lessen competition)

While busy professional people might wish it wasn't so, investing does not appear to be something that can easily, successfully or reliably outsourced. I feel for those involved.

 

[Sim]

I can't see this as being very sustainable.

http://www.navrainvest.com.au/Our_People lists 4 (presumably full time) workers, 3 non-exec directors and two others as a compliance committee.

I doubt any will work for free.

Most of the information on the website is now obsolete. A lot has happened in the past few months. Current situation is complicated.

 

[amy21322]

Renting even a small office in North Sydney won't come cheap.
Overheads might be $1-2m pa all up.

Not necessarily so, if Suite 203 is occupied by THREE companies. Check out their corresponding websites.

NavraInvest
Navra Financial Solutions, and
Quantum Financial Solutions.

These 3 companies all share the same address. And some staff, too, apparently.

And, Sim, as the Navra share funds have now been terminated, wouldn't it be encumbent on Navra to remove any obsolete info from their website ASAP, or, better still, remove the website in its entirety?

Amy

 

[chai walla]

Steve Navra declares himself bankrupt!

Well folks,

Steve Navra declared himself bankrupt.

I guess he will blame everybody except himself. But one does not get into a position like this by being a 'stand up' guy.

He has been taken to task by FOS (Financial Ombudsman Service), he has been pursued in the courts, he is being investigated by ASIC - no doubt he will turn around and make out he was a victim - blah, blah, blah

No doubt he will still have some squillions stashed away in trusts and other entities that his creditors will not be able to lay their hands on and I will not be surprised if he is back to his old tricks in the not too distant future - this time starting from a nice clean slate to boot!

So unfolds another chapter in the sordid saga of Steve Navra.

Power to the people!

CW

 

[shuggy]

I will quote this although it may get deleted or edited.
Do you have a source for Steve declaring bankruptcy thanks?

Well folks,

Steve Navra declared himself bankrupt.

I guess he will blame everybody except himself. But one does not get into a position like this by being a 'stand up' guy.

He has been taken to task by FOS (Financial Ombudsman Service), he has been pursued in the courts, he is being investigated by ASIC - no doubt he will turn around and make out he was a victim - blah, blah, blah

No doubt he will still have some squillions stashed away in trusts and other entities that his creditors will not be able to lay their hands on and I will not be surprised if he is back to his old tricks in the not too distant future - this time starting from a nice clean slate to boot!

So unfolds another chapter in the sordid saga of Steve Navra.

Power to the people!

CW

 

[chai walla]

I will quote this although it may get deleted or edited.
Do you have a source for Steve declaring bankruptcy thanks?

This information was passed onto me by two lawyers, separately, neither of whom know each other. They are both reputable. I am not sure how else one finds these things out - but time will reveal what I have posted is accurate and correct.

 

[Sim]

I guess he will blame everybody except himself. But one does not get into a position like this by being a 'stand up' guy.

I don't know the full circumstances of what you claim - but I do know a thing or two about some of Steve's investments.

I know he invested heavily into Great Southern along with his clients. He is being pursued by the banks for that just like everyone else who borrowed to invest. I don't know the current situation, but I wouldn't be surprised if that has something to do with things. Steve had certainly flagged that as a possibility in the past due to the court proceedings that had been brought against him by the banks.

Being personally bankrupted doesn't say terribly much about a person other than they ended up owing more than they could possibly repay, which can happen for any number of reasons.

I know several members of this forum who you would probably consider to be "stand up" people - yet who have found themselves in the unfortunate situation of being forced into bankruptcy due to their circumstances. It happens to many people and it doesn't necessarily make them "bad".

NFS had insurance and anyone who has a valid complaint about the advice they were given, could potentially make a claim against that insurance. That's what it's there for. Whether Steve is personally bankrupt or not shouldn't have an impact on that.

 

[chai walla]

My comments about being a 'Stand up' guy relate to him being pursued by almost everyone under the sun. Where there is smoke there is fire and in Steve's case FOS, ASIC and the court system (not the banks but clients who took him to court) says a little more than a boy scout billy boil!

 

[Sim]

FOS, ASIC and the court system

Yes, but as far as I'm aware, there have yet to be any adverse findings against Steve from any of these entities? How about we stick to innocent until proven guilty for a change?

 

[chai walla]

Yes, but as far as I'm aware, there have yet to be any adverse findings against Steve from any of these entities? How about we stick to innocent until proven guilty for a change?

Sorry to inform you my friend but you are not fully informed...

All will come out in due course. Please don't ask me to elaborate as I am unable to - but time will reveal all, very eloquently.

 

[topcropper]

Where is Bill.L?

Gee's he was a valuable poster here. Shame he left.


See ya's.

 

[DavidMc]

Sorry to inform you my friend but you are not fully informed...

All will come out in due course. Please don't ask me to elaborate as I am unable to - but time will reveal all, very eloquently.

So CW, why should we believe you? A guy who registered a few months ago, has provided no evidence and has 10 posts? You sound like some guy who's got a bone to pick with Steve - what is your motive? Don't say 'good Samaritan' either.

I tend to have faith in Steve. His living off equity concepts were groundbreaking when I first read them and very interesting, whether you thought they'd work or not. I believe this forum is better off from having Steve here I want to support people that advance our community.