" still too early to wholly discount a sharp fall in house prices"

http://www.theage.com.au/news/busin...tralias-ratings/2005/09/08/1125772609905.html

Fitch affirms Australia's ratings
September 8, 2005 - 7:08AM


Fitch Ratings, the international rating agency, has today affirmed the Commonwealth of Australia's Long-term foreign and local currency ratings at 'AA-plus' and 'AAA' respectively with a stable outlook.

The short-term foreign currency rating is affirmed at 'F1-plus' and the Country Ceiling at 'AAA'.

"Australia's sovereign ratings are supported by fiscal prudence, a strong banking system and a proven track record of managing the economy through adverse shocks." Fitch Sovereign Ratings Group senior director Paul Rawkins said.

"However, persistent current account deficits and rising net external indebtedness remain key constraints on the foreign currency rating, counterbalancing the government's net external creditor status."

Noting that Australia recently chalked up its 14th consecutive year of economic expansion, Fitch says there is good reason to believe that a 'soft landing' is at hand, following the strong asset price and household debt-driven growth of recent years.
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Domestic demand has cooled considerably against a background of high levels of household indebtedness, tighter monetary policy and soaring oil prices.

Nonetheless, unemployment has held steady at an historical low of around five per cent, wage pressures are mostly benign and interest rates appear to have peaked.

Continued economic momentum owes much to further gains in the terms of trade, rising export receipts and significant investment in the natural resource sectors.

Fitch expects growth to slow to a still respectable 2.5 per cent in 2005, before rising modestly in 2006-07, albeit below the long-term trend rate of 3.5 per cent.

Fitch says that high commodity prices and low unemployment have bolstered Australia's already robust public finances, generating higher-than-budgeted surpluses on the back of buoyant corporate and personal income taxes and falling welfare payments.

For 2005-06 the government has tabled a range of tax cuts consistent with a modest reduction in the budget surplus. At the same time, in a move that signals that Australia may be reaching the limits of public debt consolidation - net debt is forecast to decline to zero in the current fiscal year - the authorities have indicated that future surpluses/privatisation receipts will be partially directed into a dedicated fund to meet the public sector's unfunded pension liabilities.

Fitch welcomes the creation of this fund on the grounds that it will further strengthen the public sector's balance sheet while simultaneously boosting national savings.

External factors continue to weigh more heavily on the sovereign foreign currency rating. Higher consumption and the recent investment boom have highlighted Australia's perennial savings and investment imbalance.

Consequently, the current account deficit hit a record high of seven per cent of GDP in Q4 2004, despite sharp increases in commodity prices, while Australia's net external debt ratios - over 50 per cent of GDP and 255 per cent of current external receipts in 2004 - continue to dwarf most others in the broad 'AA' rating cohort.

Fitch notes that the trade deficit has started to narrow now on the back of further terms of trade gains and strong global demand, but it warns that higher international interest rates could constrain parallel improvements in the current account deficit as debt servicing costs rise.

Domestically, the rating agency is encouraged by signs that the housing market is cooling in a sustainable manner. However, it maintains that it is still too early to wholly discount a sharp fall in house prices and the knock-on effect that could have to consumer confidence and demand, if not the banks, which continue to enjoy strong credit profiles for the most part.

- AAP
 
I'm not particularly concerned by a significant fall in the next year or so as the economy as a whole seems to be hanging together quite nicely.

2-3 years down the line or as a result of an unforseen external shock ( Bird flu , terrorism etc ) it is hard to exclude.

See Change
 
see_change said:
I'm not particularly concerned by a significant fall in the next year or so as the economy as a whole seems to be hanging together quite nicely.

I sensing the broader economy outside mining is starting to contract in response to reduced consumption overall, but esp lower of local product and higher of imports.

http://www.aigroup.asn.au/aigroup/pdf/economics/pmi/economics_pmi_nat_pmi_august_2005_pu_310805.pdf
http://www.theage.com.au/news/busin...e/2005/09/08/1125772609935.html?oneclick=true
 
thefirstbruce said:
I sensing the broader economy outside mining is starting to contract in response to reduced consumption overall, but esp lower of local product and higher of imports.

http://www.aigroup.asn.au/aigroup/pdf/economics/pmi/economics_pmi_nat_pmi_august_2005_pu_310805.pdf
http://www.theage.com.au/news/busin...e/2005/09/08/1125772609935.html?oneclick=true

Bruce

Do you see this being enough to trigger a sharper fall in prices in the next year ?

I would have thought it's impact is more likely to be slightly longer than that. 2-3 years.

See Change
 
SC, re how fast and furious things might contract, I'll be paying close attention to the S&P spin index, which monitors overdue mortgage repayments on sub premium loans. I think it's an objective measure which should be a leading indicator of trends with conventional housing loan servicing.

However, I think the bubble will deflate slowly for the next 12-18 months. Afterwards, as contracting domestic consumption starts to significantly affect employment, I think we'll see fringe suburbs (working and lower middle classes) increase property listings. This will escalate downwards pressure quite quickly I believe, as distressed unemployed vendors come under more pressure. After all, people in these suburbs don't work in the mines, they work in local manufacturing and service industries, therefore they are most vulnerable to a pull back in domestic consumption.

Further, this end of the market, which normally lives further away from work, with poor public transport options, will be dealing with pressure from sustained higher fuel prices. And unlike some, I see fuel staying high.

Part of my strategy at the moment is to provide rental accomodation in these areas, as I see demand will pick up in the next few years at the bottom end. These areas will provide the first opportunity to get very healthy CF+ IPs. And I am not interested in chasing large capital gains. IMHO, that will have to wait 12-15 years :) Cash will be king for the next 5-7 years in my books.

I will continue to track several suburbs on realestate.com.au for volume of listings.

Am off to clinic for an 8 hour shift, whixh are getting harder.... :(
 
thefirstbruce said:
SC, re how fast and furious things might contract, I'll be paying close attention to the S&P spin index, which monitors overdue mortgage repayments on sub premium loans. I think it's an objective measure which should be a leading indicator of trends with conventional housing loan servicing.

However, I think the bubble will deflate slowly for the next 12-18 months. Afterwards, as contracting domestic consumption starts to significantly affect employment, I think we'll see fringe suburbs (working and lower middle classes) increase property listings. This will escalate downwards pressure quite quickly I believe, as distressed unemployed vendors come under more pressure. After all, people in these suburbs don't work in the mines, they work in local manufacturing and service industries, therefore they are most vulnerable to a pull back in domestic consumption.

Further, this end of the market, which normally lives further away from work, with poor public transport options, will be dealing with pressure from sustained higher fuel prices. And unlike some, I see fuel staying high.

Part of my strategy at the moment is to provide rental accomodation in these areas, as I see demand will pick up in the next few years at the bottom end. These areas will provide the first opportunity to get very healthy CF+ IPs. And I am not interested in chasing large capital gains. IMHO, that will have to wait 12-15 years :) Cash will be king for the next 5-7 years in my books.

I will continue to track several suburbs on realestate.com.au for volume of listings.

Am off to clinic for an 8 hour shift, whixh are getting harder.... :(


Sounds not dissimiler to what I'm thinking will happen , though I'll be suprised if good cash flow in Capital Cities will be available that quickly. My current thinking will be to look at the share market in the medium term , though obviously if good cash flow is avalable I will look :)

Part of my hesitance to commit to early ( in a big way ) in the next cycle is because we don't know how long it will take , and we don't know what interest rates will be in 4-5 years time.

See Change
 
Same boat

Seech, TFB

I'm in the same boat. But I find it hard to find CF+ in Sydney... let me rephrase that... I can not find CF+ in Sydney and haven’t looked much in the rural areas. As for CF all of my other properties are CF++ and I'm thinking about additional development on some land that I have (none of this is in OZ).

Anyway, I have put some money in Gold, mainly as anti-inflationary measure, but I'm looking into mining stocks atm. I like BHP, although will wait for it to come down a bit, maybe around 19, but would not rule out 17.5 either. I like Uranium miners, as well as gold and silver. BHP is all-rounder so I think it fits the bases very well, on top of BHP I'm looking at one-two speculative buys in gold/uranium miners/explorers atm. Trying to stay away from consumer-related stocks, as I think that consumer confidence will be just falling in the near term.

What is forum's on BHP in particular?

Thx
V
 
Panic, I'd say you're safe buying BHP, which I want to do too. I have been waiting for a pull back and am amazed that the whole market keeps moving up, week by week. THough I am thinking everyone is getting the jitters, because US analysts say their property market is seriously overpriced . The US is on the tail end of higher consumption tied to their property boom(everyone feels richer with the recent increased equity). A correction in their share market has to occur soon, I reckon no later than March 06 (after a soft Christmas spend).

Will be interesting to watch what happens to China when US consumption slows. Hopefully, Chinese internal consumption will fuel their economic fire, when the US goes off the boil.

I don't think it is too late to get into some oil and coal. I haven't followed uranium that closely, nor gold and silver. I am thinking it might be a bit premature for gold and silver. I don't see a serious world recession on the horizon, just a baby recession.

Though will be interesting to see what comes of Katrina and Iraq. I think your average American will be feeling pretty lousy about continuing to send their hard earned dollars towards keeping Iraqis from blowing themselves up. Esp when the rest of the world couldn't give a stuff, esp the EU......
I think your average yank will be thinking about home first. Those dollars going to Iraq could be doing a lot of good in the USA......Gee, the US could even start demanding that China play a larger role as world policeman.....now that would be something.....China keeping the peace in Iraq.........can you imagine.....


SC, I agree that one has to be careful getting in early. That's why I am looking for property neutrally geared with potential to develop cheaply to improve yields.

I am thinking it is going to be a subtle dance one has to do, timing decreased exposure to the share market and more into property. I am trying to get a real feel for what I can do re CF+ IPs, so I am ready to act with confidence. The one thing I'd like to avoid is negative equity by getting in too early. But it will also be a hard call when capital gains are next significant.

Nevertheless, if I can get healthy passive cash flows, I think I'll be able to convince a few lenders that equity has improved, and use that for purchases as the market softens further. A dollar cost averaging approach might just be the way to go re property for the next 3-5 years.

Admittedly, it would be better not to try and catch falling (property) knives, but I think as the share market tops, there won't be too many chances to get any growth out of shares, or property, for around 18 or more months. Which is why I think early entry to CF+ IPs is justified.

One thing is for certain, expecting passive capital gains in the next few years will be seriously risky, unless you are playing at the very top end.

As for interest rates, I can't see them moving beyond 7.5% in the medium term. Most of us are maxed out on debt, and don't have any spending power left to push demand. And as domestic consumption softens, there isn't likely to be any wage pressure pushing prices up.

Gotta get home and eat......
 
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