Tenant damage - advice needed.

[dannyhc]

Can someone please advise me on where I stand now that the following events have transpired.

Had excellent tenants looked after the house and made capital improvements at their own expense, found the whole experience to be quite pleasant until I discovered....

Shade sails had been illegally erected and attached to the roof of my house, the G force generated is akin to having a parachute attached to my house and I believe this may have caused all the windows to sink leaving gaps exposed and major cracks forming.

Both inspections by my property manager failed to report the glaring obvious and I wish to know where I stand in terms of litigation, please note I have both landlord insurance and building insurance.

Thanking you in advance for your assistance.

 

[Lil Skater]

Have a building inspection undertaken - You may find it's the natural lean of the property which has caused the movement.

If not, check what your landlord and building insurance covers.

 

[kathryn d]

Can't help you for this time..but whenever we have a tenant want to make an improvement, we inform them exactly how it is to be done.
Most don't know anything about home repair or any installation, and Rob is quite knowledgable on almost anything..or will search out how.
Might be something to keep in mind for the future.

 

[NBS]

I'm not sure if I have this right, you were happy that your tenants did improvements to your property at thier expense. You were fully aware of this, did you ever ask what they wanted to do and if so did you stipulate how it should be done IE permits if required etc etc. Or were you not aware of what they were going to do?

Have you asked the tenant how the sail was installed?

As for the shade sail not sure why you think this would cause all the windows to sink, if all the windows are sinking as you say I dare say you have a settlement issue. Any photos?

The sail is most likely installed with turnbuckles if your that concerned remove the sail.

Get a building inspection done to find out the issue with all your windows sinking.

If the building inspection indicates the sails caused the cracks you could approach your insurance Co not sure how this will go if you knew what they were going to do and allowed it to be done.

Brian

 

[chris_qld]

"Both inspections by my property manager failed to report the glaring obvious..."

The lesson I learned from my experience is do regular inspections with PM and do NOT trust any PMs.

 

[chilliblue]

As stated above, do not assume and have a written repot undertaken before commenceing any action.

However, the PM should have advised you of any additions made by the tenant and you need to advise them of the breach once you know what damage if any they may have caused.

If damage is found, hit the agent for the cost of the report as well as any rectification.

 

[dannyhc]

Just to clarify, the Shade Sails were done without notification by the tenants, all the other improvements were requested and approved formally. Upon review we were both happy with the results of the other works performed however they seemed to have become too comfortable and took the liberty attaching Sails despite needing a council approval.

My agent performed inspections twice and failed to report this, I know this is a hard lesson learned and I did attend to the site after the second inspection (8 month mark) to my horror noticed the 3 Sails attached to the roof of my house and immediately advised them to take them down. The agent didn't even know you needed a council approval in the first place, despite this being part of their role as a 'property manager'.

The lack of professionalism and inept ability delivered to me by my agent has me livid and I wish to launch legal proceedings as well as formal complaints to any appropriate bodies that will listen. It seems that if you ever want anything done in this life properly you have to do it yourself and I fail to see any value in the services provided by a Real Estate Agent, will probably self-manage after this episode.

Thanks once again for allowing me to vent, please learn from my experience, I would like to name and shame the agent and provide full details when this is over so that others can benefit, would this be advisable?

 

[wylie]

Just to clarify, the Shade Sails were done without notification by the tenants, all the other improvements were requested and approved formally. Upon review we were both happy with the results of the other works performed however they seemed to have become too comfortable and took the liberty attaching Sails despite needing a council approval.

I don't know where you stand on this, so cannot help but I do know that sails over a (rather small) size need approval.

My agent performed inspections twice and failed to report this, I know this is a hard lesson learned and I did attend to the site after the second inspection (8 month mark) to my horror noticed the 3 Sails attached to the roof of my house and immediately advised them to take them down. The agent didn't even know you needed a council approval in the first place, despite this being part of their role as a 'property manager'.


I really don't believe that this is part of their role as a property manager. Perhaps the tenant didn't tell anyone they were putting up sails. If a PM inspects several houses a week, perhaps he/she didn't notice the sails as being new.

Without knowing all the details, I see it as an issue between you and the tenant, but I'm sorry to say I have no legal idea of what will come of it.

Great advice about getting a building inspection before doing anything more. Once you know whether the sail has damaged the property, you can pursue it either through insurance or the tenant.

Good luck.

 

[Perp]

If the shade sails truly have done this much damage to your home - and I acknowledge they generate huge forces, most people wouldn't realise just how much - then you're in an unenviable situation. I doubt your insurance would cover you because unauthorised modifications are usually explicitly precluded.

If you can clearly demonstrate the link between the sails and the gaps, which I don't think will be straightforward, then your only potential comeback would, I think, be against the tenant's public liability insurance. (Which they should have as part of their contents insurance.) But I don't like your chances and suspect you'll be pushing the proverbial uphill; the insurer is highly unlikely to accept liability without a fight.

This may sound like a silly question, but do you really have to do anything about it? If the sail is removed, it's possible everything will just settle back to where it was, and whilst you may have some patching to do, it may not be that big a deal. Most homes have cracks and settling somewhere. Can you post some pictures, if we're getting the wrong idea about how much damage is involved?

The lack of professionalism and inept ability delivered to me by my agent has me livid and I wish to launch legal proceedings as well as formal complaints to any appropriate bodies that will listen.

I understand your frustration, but I think your anger is a bit disproportionate. Legal proceedings and formal complaints are likely to only increase your frustration, as I'd be willing to bet that the PM has an "out" which puts this outside their domain. Like wylie, I'm not sure that noticing such changes falls within their job description.

I would like to name and shame the agent and provide full details when this is over so that others can benefit, would this be advisable?

In my opinion, no. 1) I'd be willing to bet that the majority of PMs wouldn't have brought the shade sails to your attention. So the only difference between your agent and the thousands of others who would have done the same, is that this situation arose.

2) With regards to risking libel action, provided you state things factually, you're OK. eg They visited the property to inspect on these dates, the shade sails were there, I wasn't notified, etc. But if you venture any opinion, comment on the state of mind of the PM, or state any fact that's contestable, you may be venturing into libellous territory. eg "XYZ were hopeless", "The PM didn't notice the obvious cracks", "The PM didn't care", "The PM was completely oblivious" etc are all problematic.

Good luck, and keep us informed. And post some pics!

 

[kathryn d]

If you can clearly demonstrate the link between the sails and the gaps, which I don't think will be straightforward, then your only potential comeback would, I think, be against the tenant's public liability insurance. (Which they should have as part of their contents insurance.) But I don't like your chances and suspect you'll be pushing the proverbial uphill; the insurer is highly unlikely to accept liability without a fight.


2) QUOTE]

Perp,
You seem to be more open to the suggestion that tenants need to have this type of insurnace to protect their liability.
Good to hear this !!!

 

[kathryn d]

I would expect for a PM to know when council approval is required.
How else would they know if a tenant did something wrong.

 

[wylie]

I would expect for a PM to know when council approval is required.
How else would they know if a tenant did something wrong.

I just don't think it is the PM's place to know this type of stuff as part of their job.

Personally, it was only after my parents installed a fairly small sail in an IP and the neighbour complained because it encroached on their "air space" by (I kid you not ) 1.5cm where the top of the post leant into their yard that the council told my parents it needed approval.

Such a small sail was installed correctly by the installer (we knew about the damage sails can cause if not installed correctly) but we just didn't know a "temporary" type structure which was only a few square metres of shade needed approval (plus the exhorbitant fees ).

Perhaps one of the PMs can enlighten us as to whether this is something they even should become involved in. As self-managers any such requests come directly to us, and I would think ANY request for such things should be referred to the owner. That is why I think the PM probably was not consulted as I would think this request should have been passed to the owner as they said other earlier ones had been.

 

[Lil Skater]

It's not apart of our job to know council regulations, although the tenant should have notified the PM and they should've spoken to the LL and the council to see if approval is required. The PM should also have said that a professional must install the sail as it can damage the property.

Also, in regards to them not noticing - When you take into account only seeing a property once in every 6 months I think it's fair enough to assume they didn't realise something was different. Although they should have it on file and (what we do anyway) is take the previous routine inspection report with us - this way we can tell what has changed.