Tenant demands reasonable ?

[bennido]

Hi all,

I am experiencing my first tenant issue in 4 yrs of being a landlord to several properties. And it is quite stressful I must say.

Here's what happened ... the central ducted heating in the house stopped working intermittently. We had it repaired but it kept breaking down. Finally it decided to give up the ghost and stopped working altogether. This happened over a couple of weeks.

New we are getting tradies in for quotes and this has taken another week.
It will likely take another couple of weeks I guess to install a new one.

In the meantime, the tenants have been using their own portable heating appliances. But they have come back with some pretty unreasonable demands (in my view at least) ...

1. 1 months free rent
2. Half of last electricity bill
3. Full amount of next electricity bill

.. and its upset me off quite a bit to say the least !

So I've put forward a counter proposal like this ...

1. 2 weeks free rent
2. Show me the electricity bill before the heater broke down. Then, I'll pay half of the increase in usage for the electricity bill until a new unit is installed.

Am I being too generous ?
Or too stingy and I should accept their original demands ?
If they reject my counter-proposal, should I escalate this to the tribunal ?

Thanks in advance for the much needed advice !

 

[Leikela]

I would try to come to some sort of agreement with the electricity bill increase as that's fair enough, however wouldn't go as far as to giving them free rent. They still have a roof over their head don't they? A heater can break down in any house (rented or owner occupied) so they run this risk with ANY property they live in. It's not like you are not taking reasonable steps to rectify the problem so I think they are being unreasonable and trying to take advantage of you.

 

[fokas]

I agree with leikela. If it was their own house, they would have to wait a few weeks for the installation of a new system anyway.
Don't let them walk all over you.

 

[Andrew L]

There free rent idea is not acceptable.

The counter of paying the extra between the last electricity and the new one is far more workable.

 

[wylie]

Their demands are totally unreasonable. I agree with Leikela that if the cost of the alternative heating is costing them more than the heating that has broken, you could consider reducing the rent per week by the extra it is costing them to heat the place.

Is the heater they are using likely to be costing more to run than the one that is broken .

To give you an idea of what we have done in the past, when tenants went into a house we had to wait two weeks for the oven/cooktop to be delivered. We knocked $50 a week off the rent. These were two young men who probably had no intention of cooking anything anyway, but for goodwill we reduced the rent until it was delivered and installed.

If it was a family, I would have knocked perhaps $100 per week off to keep them happy. But having no cooktop is way more inconvenient than having to use a different heat source, so I would be offering them maybe $30 per week until the heater is fixed. (Saying that, I have no idea whether the cost to run whatever they are heating the place with is costing them considerably more than the broken one. If so, why is that so?)

For them to ask for one months' free rent is just madness.

Why not offer a reasonable reduction in rent until it is fixed. If they don't want to take it you could always offer to release them from the lease without penalty (if that is what you desire). They truly sound like they could be trouble in the future. If it was me, I would want them gone.

 

[boods99]

I agree with Leikela, No free rent period, as that is just taking advantage of the situation on the tenants behalf. Your suggestion of paying the difference between their electricity bills is fair. You should probably get them to average the last 6 months worth of bills and pay the difference between that figure and their new amount. In all probability, this is only going to be about $50, and definately less than $100.
If they don't like that, I would let them take me to the tribunal (this is the way I would do it, but it is not necessarily the way that you must do it. Only you can decide that)
Keep records of all correspondance in regards to this matter. If you can show that you are being fair and reasonable, and taking steps to rectify the situation in a timely manner (which I think you are) I think that this will go a long way towards your case.

Boods


In the time it took me to type my response, 3 more people have replied...don't you people have anything better to do??

 

[J Martin]

I agree with leikela. If it was their own house, they would have to wait a few weeks for the installation of a new system anyway.
Don't let them walk all over you.

I see it slightly differently. They are paying a rent for a house with specific services and features. if those features or services become unavailable then they should not have to pay for them for the duration of the service being unavailable.

I would argue more along the lines of a rent discount for compensation over the period of the problem, rather than free rent.

 

[boods99]

The problem with offering a rental discount everytime something goes wrong is that how do you put a price on the inconveniece? For example; if the heating went, you can give them a $50 per week discount until it is fixed...Ok
What happens if at the same time a window broke, a couple of light switches went, oven gets a fault, leaking roof, someone steals the letterbox...you could, in effect, have to pay the tenant to live there...

Boods

 

[xcesiv]

taking a bit of this and that from each comment here

JM mentioned that they have rented with specific features, r these features listed on the lease agreement. If yes, then compensation of rent maybe a small portion.

You didnt take the whole house off them when the heater stoped, so no free rent.

I would say a small % of the daily rent for every day that the heater isnt working, and as mentioned above a portion of the elec bill for the extra cost.

 

[wylie]

The problem with offering a rental discount everytime something goes wrong is that how do you put a price on the inconveniece? For example; if the heating went, you can give them a $50 per week discount until it is fixed...Ok
What happens if at the same time a window broke, a couple of light switches went, oven gets a fault, leaking roof, someone steals the letterbox...you could, in effect, have to pay the tenant to live there...

Boods

The difference as I see it is that the cooktop is rather an integral part of daily life, so I would offer a discount for that (and have done so in the past). Heating in a cold place would be fairly important (even though here in Queensland I would not consider it an issue, but in Melbourne it would be).

In Brisbane, if the reverse cycle air-con broke down, I would organise its repair without offering any discount, because we just don't get really cold here.

The other things don't fall into the same category (except perhaps a badly leaking roof) so when things like that happen, we let the tenants know that the appropriate thing will be fixed next day, next weekend, whatever, but for those little things I would not offer any reduction.

Oven needing repair still leaves them with full cooktop and microwave, but in our case it was not even in situ, so the discount was offered.

 

[Pushka]

Goodness, when we rented the bathroom was out of action for a couple of days and there was no question of getting free rent from the landlord; she was actually cross that the repairs had to be done - blame the tree roots dear!

I thought that Landlords had to replace with urgency, any appliances that were essential to live in (eg water heater, oven) or dangerous (structural repairs) but if they have access to a heater then why the free rent? And why the full electricity bill? Makes no sense to me....

 

[skater]

Let me get this right. The heater broke and you are doing your best to rectify the situation and you are doing this in as quick a fashion as you can. It was not your fault it broke, nor the tenants.

OK, if that is correct, then as far as I am concerned the tenant has no right to expect to receive free, or discounted rent. Things break and need repairing from time to time. That's life! If feeling generous, then a reimbursement of the extra energy used during this time may be appropriate, but nothing more.

The tenants appear to be trying to take advantage of the situation for their own benefit.

We had a tenant with an airconditioner that broke down in 45 degree heat during summer. It took at least a month to repair as it is in a regional area that has to order parts, then wait for tradies. They got no discount.

We had another with a stove that broke down. We ordered the parts straight away, but the wholesalers did not let us know that the model was discontinued and they could not get parts. As soon as we found out, we bought and installed a new one. They were without a stove for 3 weeks. Again, no discount.

Neither of these tenants complained. They could both see that we were genuinely doing our best to fix things for them as soon as possible.

 

[josko]

I would try to come to some sort of agreement with the electricity bill increase as that's fair enough, however wouldn't go as far as to giving them free rent. They still have a roof over their head don't they? A heater can break down in any house (rented or owner occupied) so they run this risk with ANY property they live in. It's not like you are not taking reasonable steps to rectify the problem so I think they are being unreasonable and trying to take advantage of you.

Go Leikela! Totally agree.

They have a roof over their heads.

Regards JO

 

[bennido]

Thanks everyone for the reply and input.

This is my 1st tenant from hell so its a whole new (unpleasant) experience for me. I guess its part of the whole property investment learning experience.

Anyway, the PM haven't put forward my counter proposal to the tenant yet so I managed to make some changes.

I instead offered $20 off the daily rental for the period from the period that the heater is not working. At $400 pw, this equates to about a 35% discount on the daily rental.

I decided not to offer the electricity thing coz its just too messy to calculate. Bills are for 2 monthly and doesn't split by days, the problem has occured over 2 billing periods, if the original unit was working it would be consuming power as well, etc.

I'll keep you posted on the developments ...

 

[Propertunity]

.... but if they have access to a heater then why the free rent? And why the full electricity bill? Makes no sense to me....

I think the premise is that ducted air (air conditioning) would be cheaper to run than an ordinary electic heater for the equivalent amount of heat put out.

OK and they've had it breakdown in the past. So a bit of inconvenience.

They are probably legally entitled to nothing but if it were me, I'd probably go down Andrew L's path of "paying the extra between the last electricity and the new one" - but for the same period - i.e. winter to winter to be fair.

It is probably going to amount to maybe half a weeks rent - that's all I'd be offering.

 

[Pushka]

Bennido, you need to withdraw that offer you made! Oops, you already have!

 

[wylie]

I do agree Skater, but we have made these offers in the past as a sweetener (once when the oven was not even installed when the tenancy commenced, and once when our tenant allowed us to have a deck built while they lived there).

In both cases, it was not expected by the tenant. But we offered it willingly in case things took longer than they did, and the tenants really appreciated it.

However, these tenants sound like trouble and I cannot for the life of me figure out whether they really think they will get a month's free rent for a broken heater

 

[skater]

However, these tenants sound like trouble and I cannot for the life of me figure out whether they really think they will get a month's free rent for a broken heater

That was my thinking too. A tenant that wants unreasonable requests is, to me, disposable. Especially if vacancy rates are low. With a property demanding rents of $400 per week, it should be a nice property, so the quality of the tenants should be such that you don't have to put up with stupid requests.

 

[Pushka]

A tenant that wants unreasonable requests is, to me, disposable.

I love that line! It does seem to be a situation of short term pain - loss of tenants with long term gain - reasonable ones!

 

[LynnH]

However, these tenants sound like trouble and I cannot for the life of me figure out whether they really think they will get a month's free rent for a broken heater

That was my thinking too. A tenant that wants unreasonable requests is, to me, disposable.

Agree with all the above! If they get away with this, what will they be 'demanding' next time?

Suggest that you be 'extremely generous' and offer to release them from the lease without penalty (as Wylie suggested previously).

Cheers
LynnH