Tenant education required

[handyandy]

Hi All

Well we have just been through another vacancy of a unit and again the tenant just picks up closes the front door and thinks they have done all thats required.

The basic surfaces are clean ie they wiped down the bench top!!! But when you really look you again realise that they did nothing more than they obviously did whilst they were living there.

They did nothing about the dirty oven the accumulated grease on the sides of the stove and all the cupboards around the stove and the range hood filters. Then of course we have the general cleaning that wasn't do - dirty marks on the walls door frames and doors, the dirty floor that was maybe swept a week or more before the move out and the list just goes on. Heaven forbid if any of these were in the state cleanliness that they are obviously prepared to leave them when they actually occupied the unit.

So I thought as a project I will attempt to put together a series of youtubes showing how to actually clean the various items in a unit.

I am thinking something along the lines of going through cleaning the kitchen the bathroom and then the rest of the unit.

In the kitchen I will deal with the process of cleaning the stove and surrounds, the filters of the range hood, all the kitchen cupboards and the top of the cupboards.

In the bathroom how to attend to any cleaning issues such as soap scum cleaning the toilet, basin and floor.

The the unit generally starting with any hooks on the wall and how to match paint to cover the damage washing the floors and washing any finger prints of the walls door frames and doors.

We have another 2 vacancies over the next month so should have some material to practice on.


If you have any ideas on what to include please share.

Cheers

 

[robboat]

Maybe you could try to include a "professional clean on vacating" clause...?
Certainly have some cleaning and care instructions left in the house for the tenants information.

Otherwise...people just don't seem to care anymore - so make sure your IP has simple surfaces to clean.
Anything complicated creates problems...

Good luck....

 

[DaveM]

If its not cleaned to a decent standard, get your PM to get some cleaners in for a couple of hours, deduct it from their bond, while you sit back and enjoy a pina colada.

After all you pay your PM for managing your property dont you? Why should you have to go spend your weekend scrubbing and cleaning someone elses filth? Even if I had no bond to claim against I would get cleaners in at my own cost, I have better things to do with my free time than scrub walls.

 

[handyandy]

If its not cleaned to a decent standard, get your PM to get some cleaners in for a couple of hours, deduct it from their bond, while you sit back and enjoy a pina colada.

After all you pay your PM for managing your property dont you? Why should you have to go spend your weekend scrubbing and cleaning someone elses filth? Even if I had no bond to claim against I would get cleaners in at my own cost, I have better things to do with my free time than scrub walls.

Well, we certainly don't spend weekends doing this. This is strictly during the week. It is our only job to manage our properties.

We have the PM to collect the rent and take calls from all our tenants. We do not let the PM arrange any maintenance issues. we attend to all the maintenance ourselves.

As far as professional cleaners. You are joking. Even their standard isn't high enough. We have used some in the past and paid substantial dollars only to find that they again didn't address any area that you couldn't directly see. Like moving the stove out to clean around it.

Further using a professional cleaner doesn't address the incidental damage all around the place.

So if you are depending on hired help then your property is slowly deteriorating. If we left our units to deteriorate then as a business we will be out competed every time and end up with longer vacancies.

I am happy to present our properties at the level we want and simply want to educate tenants that it is in their best interest that they do some basic cleaning before they hand over the keys.

Cheers

 

[DaveM]

Well, we certainly don't spend weekends doing this. This is strictly during the week. It is our only job to manage our properties.

I forgot you were a professional landlord Poor schleps like me has to work during the week

 

[handyandy]

I forgot you were a professional landlord Poor schleps like me has to work during the week

It's the downside of professional land-lording.

Obviously for us apart from maintaining high standards it's a question of cashflows with me rather billing the ex tenant for any fix ups than paying over the mark for others to do a sub standard job.

Cheers

 

[alplant]

We took much the same problems (among others) to tribunal. Apparently tenants can't be expected to move a stove to clean around it or to be able to match the paint on more than 100 marks and gouges on the walls, that's all just wear and tear. I guess we should be grateful they tried at all, and we did get $50 towards the $5000 repaint.

Oh, and having an oven door that no longer closes because the hinges have been bent so badly they can't be fixed so a new stove is required, is just wear and tear too. Apparently a landlord who has tenants with three kids that stay for three years can expect quite a bit of wear and tear.

Strangely we got the full cost of a broken window, apparently that isn't wear and tear.

 

[MTR]

Hi HA

I am not sure whether this would be effective, because you are really dealing with a tenant that probably does not give a damn or perhaps they consider their standard to be good and your standard too high. Also, if they are smart enough they will know what they can get away with.

Don't want to be negative but it's a tough one.

MTR

 

[Joe D]

If you have any ideas on what to include please share.

Good luck with trying to educate the outgoing tenant on cleanliness.

I have had excellent tenants who leave the property immaculate and I have had tenants whose definition of clean leaves a lot to be desired.

For the properties I self manage, any tenants who vacate without adequate cleaning (or repairs etc) get hit with both the cost of the cleaning as well as well as a daily rent charge until either they perform the work or until a cleaner/repairman is organised.

I have this in my leases and I also spell this out to my tenant(s) prior to performing a final inspection before tenant vacates.

If the tenant doesn't want to come back to clean (or organise repair) then I will assess this cost implication during my inspection and advise how much will be deducted from bond. We can either reach common ground on the amount to be deducted from Bond or they can take me to the Tribunal (but I will have backup to support any dispute).

 

[Ideo]

From a tenants perspective from my last three places

Place 1 - excellent standard when we went in. Excellent standard when we left. Employed a cleaner to do an end of lease clean and he didn't do some basic stuff so had to go back and redo it. PM was very good about it, and got the money back from the shoddy cleaner. Live and learn (he didn't give the bathroom a proper clean or anything like that)

Place 2 - Excellent when we went in, we got a cleaner every fortnight, and got a end of lease clean from the agents recommended cleaner. Who left it worse than what it started out as (didn't wipe up spray etc). The PM dealt with the cleaner. We had someone come in for photos as it was being sold and they reported back to the PM that it was one of the cleanest places they'd ever had to photograph. Win for us. Left on bad terms with the agent due to something else, but no issue with getting 100% of the bond back.

Current place. Disgusting when we went in (apartment is 10 years old), the rangehood has never been cleaned and is unusable because it stinks so much, none of the vents have ever been cleaned, there was about 4 years worth of lint built up in the dryer, the walls above the cooktop were greasy as hell, oven had never been cleaned, and apparently the last tenants "left it in excellent condition" according to the PM. Not by my standards. When we leave it will be in much better condition than when we started, apart from some minor additional wear on the carpets and a huge damp spot on the ceiling which is not our fault.

Agents 1 and 2 are known to have high standards by those in the areas. Agent 3, my current PM, are lazy and couldn't organise a root in a brothel. And it shows in how they present apartments to new tenants.

I think PMs need training as to what is acceptable as well. My 2 IPs, now sold, had similar issues. Place 1 was left as a pigsty but PM said it was "fine" (grime in the sink, mould in the bathroom, carpets filthy) and wouldn't pursue anything. Second one the agent was much fussier and the condition was much better and nothing needed doing.

 

[The Fence]

That's the go Joe !

Always remain confident and knowledgeable about rights and rules and keep informing tenants and referring them to the relevant Act.

That way, tenants know you are serious and not some pushover that Daz keeps referring to when criticising resi investing.

 

[D.T.]

Good luck with trying to educate the outgoing tenant on cleanliness.

I have had excellent tenants who leave the property immaculate and I have had tenants whose definition of clean leaves a lot to be desired.

For the properties I self manage, any tenants who vacate without adequate cleaning (or repairs etc) get hit with both the cost of the cleaning as well as well as a daily rent charge until either they perform the work or until a cleaner/repairman is organised.

I have this in my leases and I also spell this out to my tenant(s) prior to performing a final inspection before tenant vacates.

If the tenant doesn't want to come back to clean (or organise repair) then I will assess this cost implication during my inspection and advise how much will be deducted from bond. We can either reach common ground on the amount to be deducted from Bond or they can take me to the Tribunal (but I will have backup to support any dispute).

Does the WA Resi Tenancy Act allow for the daily charge component? Has it been tested in tribunal?

 

[SeafordSunshine]

you tube

Great idea!

Tenants dont clean, generally speaking, (I don't want to besmirch the people who do!)

Could I suggest showing people how much product to out on a rag , or e cloth, makes a difference.
When I had a broken leg, my friend shouted me a cleaner, and each time they left, they sprayed 'perfume' in the kitchen, which made the floor slippery, and I fell over with my plaster cast....

How to gently wipe a surface so the paint is not scratched, and then once the 2 years ( or however long) of dust or pollution is removed. then to rub hard so that a shine is returned?

Also, how to empty a vacuum cleaner, so that it continues to suck?
Opening and closing doors and cleaning inside the closures, and above the door sills.
Call it something catchier than...' how to get your bond back, and the white glove treatment.'
People don't realise how to clean, and how it saves things from breaking (and the extra cost of replacing things.
Could I also suggest you ask your tenants to watch before the tenancy commences, I think 'the horse has bolted ' at the end of a tenancy
I look forward to seeing it!
All the best

 

[thatbum]

Does the WA Resi Tenancy Act allow for the daily charge component? Has it been tested in tribunal?

He probably means non-WA properties since the WA laws almost certainly wouldn't allow it, and its the Magistrates Court here rather than a tribunal.

 

[Joe D]

He probably means non-WA properties since the WA laws almost certainly wouldn't allow it, and its the Magistrates Court here rather than a tribunal.

I actually do mean WA.

Previous post also refers.

http://somersoft.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1015434#post1015434

It all comes done to being able to demonstrate and substantiate actual costs incurred.

 

[thatbum]

I actually do mean WA.

Previous post also refers.

http://somersoft.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1015434#post1015434

It all comes done to being able to demonstrate and substantiate actual costs incurred.

I think I vaguely remember that thread. Whether or not the charges are actual damages arising from a tenant's breach of a tenancy agreement - you still can't set a "daily rent charge" in the lease.

Liquidated damages are prohibited in WA leases.

 

[geoffw]

I've had good experience with PMs and cleaners. The standard has been high- and the cleaner gets sent back if it's not perfect.

Presumably if you clean it yourself you wouldn't be able to claim the cleaning cost from the tenant?

 

[Joe D]

I agree that LDs are unenforceable.

We obviously disagree on the interpretation and substantiation of these incurred costs.

So be it.

 

[handyandy]

Thanks so far for the comments.

The idea would be that they are given (or directed to) the relevant clips on entering the lease. Then they would be given a refresher at the time of their notice.

It would also be redistributed to those we find have no idea during their occupancy. (we have a few). A story. We have a pair of gays (iraqe) who wanted to move from a single bedroom unit to a vacated 2 br unit in the same block. OK, no problem until we went to inspect unit after changeover. The kitchen was a grease ball. We hit their bond. Cleaned up and they are still tenants 3 years hence. We had the PM go in and teach them how to clean in the new unit. But they are still not very good and I certainly have them in mind for a first release premier. lol

Its not that my tenants (in the main) don't give a damn but they really are missing the fundamental ideas on western levels of cleanliness. I am not sure if it's western level or European levels but it's the level that I grew up with which unfortunately most of my tenants didn't grow up with.

By the way we had an Iranian couple in a unit and the woman was a clean freak. No idea on how to actually clean but had obviously sprayed liberal amount of chlorine around everywhere and continually. There was so much chlorine used in their 1 year of occupancy that they managed to rust parts of a brand new stove and even the s/s sink had rust spots. The opposite of the problem. The ironic thing is that the oven was filthy.

We do charge ourselves for the cleaning and repairs etc. My sons have a company and we use it to invoice the property's holding entities for all work.

This all makes it sound like we are doing this all the time but it's just a numbers game. We actually have many long term tenants, some over 14 years. It's just one of those times when we are faced with 5 changeovers (not including the USA) over a very short time period.

Cheers

 

[wylie]

We had one tenant who came in after I had spent a day cleaning (big house). She was not happy because it was not as clean as the professional cleaners she paid in the house she just left (I didn't see that house, but I left it very clean).

So, we said "get in a professional and we will pay for it". She never did that ( think she was just wanting to see what we did when she complained), and when she left it was clean enough that I returned her bond, but when I went in after she had gone, things I'd missed initially needed doing. I spent another day cleaning.

Had she not been so picky at the start, I would not have been so amused at the end.