tenants smoking in the house

[Andrew]

Is there anything I can do about tenants smoking inside an IP?

My quantity surveyor went over to do a depreciation report on the
house and he tells me that it stinks of cigarette smoke.

I've told the property manager and his response was that it would
be discrimination to do anything about it other than to ask them to
stop.

I haven't read the standard REIV tenancy agreement but I would
have thought there would be a no smoking clause in it.

Any thoughts?

andy

 

[Jamie]

Hi Andrew,

There are a couple of answers in this thread here

Jamie

 

[Andrew]

Thanks Jamie, I did a search (no, really I did) and didn't come up
with that thread.

Does anyone know if there's any no smoking clause in the REIV
agreement? There's clauses for just about everything else in
there.

andy

 

[mmerlin]

I don't suppose they actually exist, but imagine if you could buy "super-sensitive" smoke alarms that are triggered by cigarette smoke and install them in all rooms except the kitchen. Your tenants would be less likely to smoke inside if they are triggering the smoke alarms.


EDIT:
On second thoughts that could be worse... the smoking tenants might just remove the batteries from the alarms, and end up burning down your IP when they fall asleep while smoking in bed!

 

[Andrew]

Actually wouldn't be too bad if they burnt the joint down,
I have plenty of insurance and I'd get to build a new
house (or two) on the block with all that lovely
depreciation.

andy

 

[abcdiamond]

Originally posted by Andrew
Actually wouldn't be too bad if they burnt the joint down,
I have plenty of insurance and I'd get to build a new
house (or two) on the block with all that lovely
depreciation.

andy

I am not sure that it would work that way withthe the tax man.
I thik he would be claiming back the Tax on ALL the depreciation you had previously claimed. Based on the insurance payout presumably covering all your costs ? Dependig on the Insurance Payout you may even end up in a taxable situation !!

I'm no expert on that, but its worth considering if that type of thing happens.

 

[MarkB]

Andy

If you are grossly over insured, really all you are doing is giving the insurance company premiums for nothing.

Your insurance will only allow you to replace the building that burnt with a like construction.

So you might have a building which costs $150k to replace insured for $200k, but if it ever burns down the most you'll get is $150k.

It is a double edged sword, because if you are under-insured you also lose.

Not sure about ABC D's point re: tax. It would be interesting to know though.

Mark

 

[abcdiamond]

My Theory regarding the tax is that the Insured would in effect be selling the old house to the Insurance company, creating a taxable sale. ?? Thats how i'd look at it if I worked for the Tax Office (which I don't)

 

[MarkB]

Sorry, when I said I "wasn't sure" I mean't just that.

I did have a look on the ATO site earlier trying to ascertain whether the "burning down" and subsequent insurance payout was a CGT event.

I didn't have any luck though, either way.

Mark

 

[Andrew]

The existing house was built well before 1985 so there currently
is no depreciation allowance, hence no possible payback to the
ATO for depreciations claimed.

Whether or not I could claim depreciation on a replacement
building I don't know for sure. But I would be giving it a shot.

Someone in forum land will know the law and/or have a private
ruling on this I'm certain.

andy

 

[abcdiamond]

Whether or not I could claim depreciation on a replacement building I don't know for sure. But I would be giving it a shot

I think I know the answer to this one !!

A replacement building would get the depreciation allowance as it would be built after 1985 !!

I think I think I am sure well, maybe

 

[tdk22]

Andy,

There is no specific clause in the REIV tenancy agreement about smoking in the property.

Your stuck, as evicting them on the basis of the tenants smoking is descrimination, and you cannot do it on that basis. This has been spacificlly adressed before.

Your best bet would be to speak to your PM and see if they can do anything about the clause in the lease regarding the 'general maintenance and upkeep' of the property.

If the smoking has caused damage to the property, ie; the ceilings are now discoloured, and the curtains and carpets have a permanent odour, you can give them notice to rectify this.

I gotta tell though, it's a long shot as you may have difficulty proving it if they resisit the claim.

Good Luck!!!

 

[Jean]

Put 'No Smoking' signs in the premises. If drawn to the attention of prospective applicants, why can't you later give proper warnings (ie remedy breach) and evict where the premises continue to be damaged by smoke? This is not evicting because they smoke, your objection relates to continuing damage.

After all, there are many things which do not constitute reasonable behaviour and damage premises, that are not specifically listed in a tenancy agreement. Eg failing to rectify spillage of sump oil over floor. You don't usually wait for the termination (end) of a tenancy before seeking rectification of damage that is discovered.

What can make it infinitely worse is the oily deodoriser that some use to conceal the pong. The stuff gets everywhere.

 

[Jamie]

Hi tdk222,

As far as I know, for any action to be legally defined as "discriminatory", it has to be specifically outlawed under either State or Federal Anti Discrimination and/or Equal Opportunity legislation A quick search of numerous state and federal acts (1977, 1991, 1995, 1998) found the following (Ive included the majority of variables - the rest are documented in the link below)

Anti Discimination and Equal Opportunity legislation specifically outlaws discrimination on any of the following attributes or identities:

Age, Breastfeeding, Disability, Family responsibilities, Gender/sex, Industrial activity, Irrelevant criminal record, Irrelevant medical record, Lawful sexual activity, Marital Status, Parental Status, Political activity, Political belief or affiliation, Pregnancy, Race, Religious activity, Religious belief or affiliation, Sexual orientation, Association with a person who has, or is believed to have, any of these attributes or identities.

(This link here pretty much covers all of the above)

Dont see smoking anywhere in there

If you own the property, you have the right to insert any clause you wish into the lease... if prospective tenants dont like it, they can go elsewhere... If they sign a Tenancy Agreement that includes that clause and smoke inside your property, they are in breach of the terms of the Agreement, and can legally be evicted.

Jamie.

 

[Gill Bates]

re:
the smoking tenants might just remove the batteries from the alarms, and end up burning

Suggestion: Install ones that are permently connected to 240v

 

[bundy1964]

*Has vissions of tenant puting screwdriver or knife in alarm and having a 240v wake up call*

Hard wired smoke alarms may fix more than 1 problem

bundy

 

[geoffw]

Would it be feasible to offer a discount- say $5pw- for a non-smoker?

It may be hard to police. But perhaps the difference between the discount and full price might be claimed back from the bond if there was evidence it had been broken?

 

[tssk]

Originally posted by geoffw
Would it be feasible to offer a discount- say $5pw- for a non-smoker?

It may be hard to police. But perhaps the difference between the discount and full price might be claimed back from the bond if there was evidence it had been broken?

Smoker would look at agreement "Um, sure buddy. I'm an avowed non-smoker."

BTW, every application to tenancy I've ever filld out had a question on smoking on there.

So at least at the screening process you can discriminate.

 

[Jamie]

Originally posted by tssk
So at least at the screening process you can discriminate.

Hi tssk,

How is it discriminating?

Are hire car companies discriminating when they dont allow smoking in their cars?

Are airlines practicing discrimination by banning smoking on flights and in airports?

What about restaurants?

Jamie

 

[tssk]

Originally posted by Jamie
Hi tssk,

How is it discriminating?

Are hire car companies discriminating when they dont allow smoking in their cars?

Are airlines practicing discrimination by banning smoking on flights and in airports?

What about restaurants?

Jamie

Hey, I didn't say it was a bad thing (especially as a non smoking asthmatic)