Thanks TIC...

[Peter Parker]

Another interesting thing about TIC is that its promotion is decentralised, relying heavily on word of mouth from members recruting friends (again like real clubs eg the local tennis, bowls or Rotary).

Material can be written and published by 'support members', who gain from their evangelism.

Support members may not have cleared their stuff legally and may make claims that don't stand scrutiny or seem outlandish. A bit like political parties where their leaders try to be fair and moderate but members are on average more rabid and extreme than the mainstream voters the leaders know they need.

Below is an example.

http://people.aapt.net.au/~rus/pcintro.htm

Note the above's use of the 'higher authority' or 'doctors recommend' ruse, to quell doubt:

"TIC have been investigated by ASIC and were found to be up-front and honest in all dealings."

 

[redwing]

After mediation fails, Investors Club dispute headed for court

Just reading this December 2011 update on The Property Observer which follows on from some of the older posts on this thread

After mediation fails, Investors Club dispute headed for court

By Larry Schlesinger
Wednesday, 21 December 2011

The legal dispute between Queensland-based advisory group The Investors Club and WA couple Marilee Coombs and Hugh Wilson will be heard in a Perth court next year after two attempts at a mediated resolution failed.

A closed hearing took place in the Federal Court of Western Australia on November 4 following a first court mediation taking place on September 12.

A spokesperson for Slater and Gordon, the law firm representing the Denmark, WA couple, told Property Observer that papers have been filed and the case is heading for trial.

“We are waiting for a date but are hopeful the case will be heard early next year,” the spokesperson says, adding that the case would be closely followed by other people who purchased property through the club and are “concerned about the value of their homes”.

In August this year Coombs and Wilson launched a claim against the property investment company and two staff members alleging they had been advised to purchase a three-bedroom bushland house in Highland Park on the Gold Coast that they later discovered was grossly overpriced.

Coombs and Wilson allege the company engaged in misleading and deceptive conduct when it advised them to purchase the property.

The property reputedly cost $630,000 when the couple bought it in 2007, though official records show a public sale price of $905,000.

The Investors Club also negotiated a $60,000 discount for the couple on the sale price.

However, after the couple purchased the property they say an independent valuation revealed the unit was worth as little as $450,000 at the time of the deal.

Coombs says she relied on the advice and assurances of The Investors Club and that this was a sound investment.

In October the couple crystallised their loss when the property was sold for $391,000.

The couple are represented by Slater and Gordon lawyer Carita Kazakoff, who says Wilson and Coombs were told by The Investors Club that the Kirribilli Heights house in Highland Park was worth up to $1 million, and they would make an instant profit of $300,000 on settlement.

“My clients, who are in their late 50s and 60s, wanted a secure investment for their future. They trusted the professional advice given to them by The Investors Club.

“However, after purchasing the Gold Coast property they are now hundreds of thousands of dollars out of pocket, and at risk of losing their family home,” Kazakoff said in August.

“The Investors Club and its two staff members ought to have known that the purchase price of the property was well above market value, and that promises of an instant profit, and appreciation in value of $60,000 in the first year were unreasonable,” she says.

A spokesperson for The Investors Club confirmed the dispute was heading for trial. The club denies the allegations.

Cont....

Source

Investors Club couple prepared to meet Gold Coast property price reality

By Larry Schlesinger
Wednesday, 14 September 2011

The West Australian couple who have commenced Federal Court proceedings against The Investors Club have reluctantly decided to list their Gold Coast property investment property at $399,000.

The three-bedroom Highland Park property reputedly cost $630,000 when it was bought by the Wilson couple in 2007, but official records show a public sale price of $905,000.

The Kirribilli Heights property on Ridgeline Way has been listed through Champions Property agent Matthew Mariconte. At the same time the Perth couple have launched proceedings against the Queensland-based TIC alleging misleading and deceptive conduct by the property investment group.

Carita Kazakoff from law firm Slater & Gordon, the lawyer representing the couple, says the couple were told by TIC that the Kirribilli Heights unit in Highland Park was worth up to $1 million, and they would make an instant profit of $300,000 on purchase.

According to consumer advocate Neil Jenman, who is covering the case on his website (and personally being sued by Investor Club founder Kevin Young), the couple signed a contract to purchase the unit in August 2007 for $630,000 – believing this to be a $50,000 discount on its purchase price ($680,000) and $275,000 below its then valuation of $905,000.

“Through their recommended mortgage broker, The Investors Club helped the Wilsons arrange a loan on the property for $678,750 [exactly 75% of the valuation]. The Wilsons signed a contract which showed the sale price at $905,000.

Cont...

Source

Queensland property investors sue over what they say is inflated price

By Larry Schlesinger
Friday, 26 August 2011

The lawyer representing a couple from Denmark, Western Australia suing Queensland-based The Investors Club (TIC) over alleged misleading and deceptive conduct says other investors might also consider similar action.

"This is the first case that we have filed against The Investors Club, however is not inconceivable that there may be other similar cases,” says Carita Kazakoff from law firm Slater & Gordon.

Hugh Wilson and Marilee Coombs are suing TIC and two employees, Bryn Campbell and Brian Walters, after they were convinced to purchase a unit that they claim they later discovered was grossly overpriced.

Slater & Gordon has begun legal action in the Federal Court in Perth, with the case set to be heard on September 12.
Cont...

Source

 

[Risky Business]

I accidentally found a Park Trent matter which has gone through the Queensland District Court Of Appeal.

I had no interest in it, so didn't read it but maybe it's worth a read if you are buying through people called Park Trent.

http://archive.sclqld.org.au/qjudgment/2012/QDC12-044.pdf

If you're from Park Trent, I live in a tent at Hutt River, and your laws don't apply to me. I have also copyrighted my name in case you intend on writing it down.

 

[MKP]

Hi prc,
I personally think it is better to do your own research because you will learn about new things, new place, new people and communities along the way, and you meet new friends while doing it. Letting an exclusive 'club' doing everything for you is not fun; all you will see and think about is $. I think they also will try to steer you to places/development they want to promote & probably have vested interest in. I joined TIC for few months, but after reading all their newsletters and testimony, and offers of 'profitable units/townhouses', and news about their 'exclusive parties and outings' I decided that it was not fun at all. I too wanted to become eligible to their 'milionarie club' but after a while I think it will be boring. I want to make the $ but it would be sad if my sole purpose in life is just that; I think it is much more fun to make $ and to learn at the same time-your own way.

Sure, you will come across lots and lots of stumbling blocks when doing it yourself, but you will be richer in life ( experience and knowledge); you will get to know the market; the emotions, the ups and down, its fun. With forum like this you can get brainy points on almost any subject on property, there is always someone with knowledge who never laugh at the simplest question.

MKP

Hi all, have just recently had an introductory consultation with the Aussie Investors Club (AIC) and wondering if anyone out there has any experience or knowledge of this club. Is anyone aware if it is in any way associated with the other called The Investors Club (TIC), which i have done a lot of reading about.
Any experience with the AIC would be appreciated thank you.

 

[Jtkumnick]

Run.

If there's a free seminar, pretty colour brochures and they are lining you up with finance more than your bank would, run.

Had many relatives look at TIC. The problem is it is not a club, it is a sales machine as mentioned earlier.

Do any property research yourself, get to know a good property lawyer of YOUR own choosing and start from there. That will remove 80% of the scams.

 

[The Fox]

Another interesting side to the TIC story. My research suggests that back prior to 2009, The Investors Club hosted their Annual Conference in Melbourne. At that time, a TIC approved mortgage broker was listed as their 'platinum sponsor' for the event. His name was Matt George and he headed up a separate company called Money Choice. Matt George had become TIC's golden haired boy because, (and I quote one TIC member) "he could arrange finance when other brokers couldn't"! For goodness sake, shouldn't this have rung some alarm bells amongst TIC Branch Managers and Support Members? Shouldn't they have been wondering how he was able to do this?

Instead, TIC members were referred, (I believe in their dozens), to Matt George to arrange the finance to purchase TIC recommended properties. The result was disastrous for many TIC members.

All of a sudden, just prior to the 2009 Annual Conference, Kevin Young dumps Matt George as their platinum sponsor. Although this caused a lot of speculation amongst members at the time, no explanation was given by Kevin Young as to why this happened.

Behind the scenes, it appears Kevin Young finally came to the conclusion that TIC's association with Matt George and Money Choice was going to get very embarrassing. Many TIC members were complaining bitterly about the financial mess that Matt George had steered them into.

Today (2012) it seems Matt George and Money Choice is now being investigated by ASIC over claims of serious misleading and deceptive conduct going back a number of years. A little more on that story I found here if you are interested: http://www.bfcsa.com.au/index.php/easyblog/entry/matt-george-and-money-choice-financial-advice

Luckily for Kevin Young he saw the writing on the wall and long since distanced himself from Matt George, thus avoiding yet more negative publicity. But what about the Money Choice victims who were first and foremost TIC clients? Did Kevin Young take any responsibility for steering them towards Matt George in the first place? What of their plight? Perhaps there are some TIC members, (or should I say ex-members) who would like to finish that story!

It has been said time and time again; Consumers need to be very cautious before dealing with any of these property marketing companies who take their commissions from the other side of the fence.

 

[redwing]

Interesting quote from the Jenman article:

On August 28, 2011, Queensland’s The Sunday Mail ranked Kevin Young and his wife, Kathy, as Number 74 in ‘Queensland’s Top 100 Rich List 2011’.

The Young’s personal fortune was reported to be $148 million (up by $76 million since the 2010 Rich List). The Youngs reportedly own more than 200 properties.

I recall someone on Somersoft who was running a silent comparison on thier property business model against The Young's, they apparently overtook the Youngs in 2007

Now with another five (5) years under thier belt from 2007 to 2012 i'm sure they have extended that lead

Then again, the Youngs dropped a Mill this year

Kevin and Kathy Young have donated $1 million towards a new Red Cross Centre to help the homeless​

ONE of Queensland's richest couples has donated $1 million to help get homeless young people off the streets.

Kevin and Kathy Young, founders of The Investors Club property investment company, are backing the Australian Red Cross initiative to support about 160 youths each year.

"I've always had a desire to help street kids," Mr Young said. "I would hate to be in their situation."

The couple were ranked number 74 on The Sunday Mail Queensland's Top 100 Rich List last year with an estimated wealth of $148 million.

Mr Young said he recalled what it was like growing up poor, sleeping on the open-sided verandah of his parents' rented home.

"I worked three jobs to get where I am today," he said. "But you can't do that these days and it's harder again trying to get a job when you don't have a home base to start with. So we are happy to help out."

The new Red Cross service will operate out of a building in Brisbane's Fortitude Valley - named the Young Centre to recognise the couple's contribution - to be launched Wednesday.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...port-street-kids/story-e6freoof-1226381486929

 

[bugsy]

TIC... Shonky as...

I have read with some interest this thread about the Investors Club... The reason I am interested is that I was one of the original support/ sales people when it first kicked of back in the mid 90's...
I was introduced to it by a relative who was also involved..... The sales pitch back then seems to be the same now...
I havn't had anything to do with them for many many years now.. and for good reason.. I purchased a property through them and followed thier golden rules... which was to only pay interest on the loan and depreciate the be-jesus out of the property... I did this and it all seemed to work quite well.... I had problems with tennants and I suppose all the other annoying things that come with property investment... But the crunch came when I had to sell the property and got stuck with a huge tax bill... but worst of all... I found out how much the developer got paid for the property when I bought it... and worked out how much Sampe... Yes, Kevin Sampe is his real name.. got out of my purchase... even thought I was selling properties for him... He made $47,000... out of that one sale.... My relative (who introduced me to the club) got 1,000... and the Area manager (who introduced my relative to the club) got 3,000...
So, Sampe got 43K.... and he did nothing but spend an hour or so with me (and a few others) over a beer.... Great way to earn a living...

 

[alexlee]

But the crunch came when I had to sell the property and got stuck with a huge tax bill...

You had a tax bill because the property went up, right? If you'd bought in the mid 90s, you would have seen some good gains. Complaining that you had to pay a lot of tax because you made gains seems a bit rich.

 

[redwing]

I have read with some interest this thread about the Investors Club... The reason I am interested is that I was one of the original support/ sales people when it first kicked of back in the mid 90's...
I was introduced to it by a relative who was also involved..... The sales pitch back then seems to be the same now...
I havn't had anything to do with them for many many years now.. and for good reason.. I purchased a property through them and followed thier golden rules... which was to only pay interest on the loan and depreciate the be-jesus out of the property... I did this and it all seemed to work quite well.... I had problems with tennants and I suppose all the other annoying things that come with property investment... But the crunch came when I had to sell the property and got stuck with a huge tax bill... but worst of all... I found out how much the developer got paid for the property when I bought it... and worked out how much Sampe... Yes, Kevin Sampe is his real name.. got out of my purchase... even thought I was selling properties for him... He made $47,000... out of that one sale.... My relative (who introduced me to the club) got 1,000... and the Area manager (who introduced my relative to the club) got 3,000...
So, Sampe got 43K.... and he did nothing but spend an hour or so with me (and a few others) over a beer.... Great way to earn a living...

There was an interesting debate on here some time ago about the definition of a Club

Lisson Pty Ltd is the parent company of what appears to be a highly successful business for the Youngs.

They definitely have some motivated and loyal members if you ever go to one of their larger meetings

 

[redwing]

Is The Investors Club now re-branded as The Property Club, or is this a new branch?

 

[Peterw]

Is The Investors Club now re-branded as The Property Club, or is this a new branch?

Yep. Let google be your friend.

http://www.tic.com.au/OurServices/tabid/61/Default.aspx

Here is another interesting read.

http://www.asic.gov.au/asic/asic.ns...ndertakings+to+protect+investors?openDocument

 

[jim1964]

PIGs (Property Investment Gurus) indeed!!

Smiled..........................

 

[Arnoldus]

Apologies if this has been posted elsewhere, but saw this in the news tonight (link at the bottom). I know a lot of people say that folks should do their own due diligence, but it's not uncommon for people to put trust in 'advisers' the same way they do other professionals/experts (solicitors, doctors, engineers etc.) because they really have limited or no knowledge, and would rather someone supposedly capable and representing their best interests to help/do it for them.



http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-08-12/high-flying-investment-club-sued-by-couple-over-1m-in-loans/5665976

 

[Redwood]

Apologies if this has been posted elsewhere, but saw this in the news tonight (link at the bottom). I know a lot of people say that folks should do their own due diligence, but it's not uncommon for people to put trust in 'advisers' the same way they do other professionals/experts (solicitors, doctors, engineers etc.) because they really have limited or no knowledge, and would rather someone supposedly capable and representing their best interests to help/do it for them.



http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-08-12/high-flying-investment-club-sued-by-couple-over-1m-in-loans/5665976

I came to this thread to post the same - please people don't get sold/ spruiked at these seminars - if it sounds too good to be true - then maybe it is- don't sign anything and seek a second opinion.

Cheers, Ivan

 

[The Fox]

The Investors Club (Property Club)

So they are in the news for all the wrong reasons yet again.

http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2014/s4065976.htm

Not surprising really I guess. See how badly Kevin Young and Wendy Priestly come across. Many of his statements are just nonsense if you listen to them carefully. He supplies no evidence to back them up just expects everyone to take his word.

Interesting. My guess is that the lid is about to burst on TIC. There are many members past and present who now believe they have been seriously misled by Kevin Young and his merry followers.

I'd just like to see him produce one member who has genuinely retired using his Kevin Young Retirement Plan. He hasn't even been able to get it to work for himself! Word is that he needs over $1 mil in cash flow from the club to keep his own property portfolio afloat. Mmmmmm.

 

[The Fox]

The Investors Club (Property Club)

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-08-...-club-sued-by-couple-over-1m-in-loans/5665976

Oh and another!

 

[Brady]

I'd forgotten all about this until now, had ex-clients around 4-5 years ago buy a whole heap of property through TIC (financed through their brokers) and they were trying to get me to come along with them to part of what they called the YIC (young investors club).

Smelt fishy at the time so I kept clear. If memory serves me right they were buying a whole heap of stock in QLD somewhere, think Gold Coast OTP. Ouch....

That was before I purchased my first property, hurts to think what sort of financial mess I could of been.

Actually feel sorry for them, they were prime targets... he was earning >$150k they had paid off PPOR ready to gear up with poor stock were valuations that dont stack up seem to breeze by.

 

[redwing]

From the ABC

Property investment scheme faces claims of misleading conduct

Also NSW retirees sue property scheme

KEVIN YOUNG: If anyone comes to me, and no-one has come to me making that claim by the way, I would say go and see the banking ombudsman, they've got huge amounts of power that can quickly see this matter fixed up.

But if you're saying do I see any finance applications? No, I don't have the right nor the knowledge to look over every finance application. I think we do up to $150 million worth of applications go through each month.

KEVIN YOUNG: I throw the challenge out there, if somebody thinks they've created more millionaires than me, come forward. I think we've got an excellent free educational service that stops people getting caught and end up bankrupt. It stops them buying the wrong the property that tangles them up in finances.

TIC happy to give their POV

 

[Ed Barton]

So they are in the news for all the wrong reasons yet again.

http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2014/s4065976.htm

Was the interviewer a work experience chick?

Not surprising really I guess. See how badly Kevin Young and Wendy Priestly come across. Many of his statements are just nonsense if you listen to them carefully. He supplies no evidence to back them up just expects everyone to take his word.

Look eye, look eye!

Interesting. My guess is that the lid is about to burst on TIC. There are many members past and present who now believe they have been seriously misled by Kevin Young and his merry followers.

Well there are a few we see in the press. There may be some more who avoid the press for financial reasons. But who knows if they may all come forward.

I

'd just like to see him produce one member who has genuinely retired using his Kevin Young Retirement Plan. He hasn't even been able to get it to work for himself! Word is that he needs over $1 mil in cash flow from the club to keep his own property portfolio afloat. Mmmmmm.

Himself, he retired in 1974. Oh wait, he still seems to be working.