The future of food

my goodness, how timely this is.

i was only at the supermarket 2 days ago and we (my daughter and i) were discussing why a 2kg supermarket chook was the same price as a 1kg (well known brand) free-range chook.

one person behind me piped up and said "because the bigger chicken is grown on hormones".

i kindly reminded him that hormones given to poultry was outlawed before I was born, and his response was "then why else would the bigger one be cheaper?"

i nearly laughed, but quickly explained buying power (and by default, density of the chicken's area), feed and breed selection have a much, much bigger part in the pricing than whether something is given an injection or not and that even if it were true, a chicken can't live and grow for 8 months on one single hormone injection.

"yeah, well, they stil give them hormones".

even my 7 year old looked at me and winced.
 
It always amazes me how these myths continue when they are so ingrained in so many.

Geez it's not like it's poorly documented or secret information.

Just don't anyone mention the antibiotics. That would really put a spanner in the works.

Hang on, antibiotics are hormones... aren't they :D.
 
Interesting to read what the US is going through. Had heard of it through a different context (friends building a house and finding the going easy due to low rain) but not food bowl type. My high school in the US was surrounded by corn fields (near Michigan State University so lots of ag research) and the periods of low rain made a visible difference.

We've just got our weather report for the next 12 months for our main event areas - all showing lower rain than average but that's not really food areas (Jervis Bay and Canberra) - would be interested to hear what you guys are expecting
 
We've just got our weather report for the next 12 months for our main event areas - all showing lower rain than average but that's not really food areas (Jervis Bay and Canberra) - would be interested to hear what you guys are expecting


We've had a few wet years in a row now. I'd think we are due for some dry ones. It always averages out.


See ya's.
 
Regular (non organic) chickens (free range, etc) are fed GMO. So does the rest of the livestock, even in Australia.


The only GM crops grown in Australia are canola and cotton. What you are saying is probably correct, but the amount would be tiny. Cotton seed and cotton seed meal is fed to cattle in drought times, and turned into vegetable oil. The left over canola meal after it's been crushed for oil may get used for animal feed.

Cattle, pigs and chooks would not be fed GM grain in Australia, but as I've mentioned, they may eat a tiny amount of cotton seed and canola meal.

In north and south america, China, and a few other places, animal feed would be 90% GM grains.


See ya's.
 
Watched "Food Inc" today, its US based and a nasty peak inside thier corporate controlled food industry

220px-Food_inc.jpg

Source

Interesting to see some of the big corporations getting into the organic industry as well
 
Watched "Food Inc" today, its US based and a nasty peak inside thier corporate controlled food industry

220px-Food_inc.jpg

Source

Interesting to see some of the big corporations getting into the organic industry as well


As discussed before, besides the GM crops grown in the US, agricultural practices over there and in Australia would be almost identical.

I haven't watched food inc, but one thing that seems to come up in the article in the link was how unsustainable agriculture is now under a high yield, high input, oil based system.



This photo of the dust bowl years of the US was from a drought in the 1930's.


Dust_Bowl_-_Dallas_South_Dakota_19361.jpg





The soil fertility was gone. The soil was mined of it's nutrients, and the nutrients left the farms as grain and food in trucks and trains. Chemical fertilizers had only just been invented. No herbicides ment ploughing the ground was the only weed control method available, so the soil was ploughed and ploughed until it was a fine powder. Then drought hit, and the wind blew it all away. Google "US Dust Bowl".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dust_Bowl



The US has now been hit by another drought.

http://www.abc.net.au/rural/news/content/201207/s3557045.htm

I'd calculate that 90 million tonnes of corn alone has been wiped out, or twice Australia's total grain harvest. Soybeans, which are planted later than corn, are now being hammered, and the yields of soybeans are now crashing too. Grain prices have risen 50% globally in 6 weeks, Yet yields will still be high, despite no rain in the grain fill. Yields will still be double or triple that of 80 years ago in a normal season. The soil is more fertile now than ever, and it is covered in a layer of mulch, as it is not ploughed anymore, but sprayed with herbicides. There will be no dust storms in the US this year.

For me, it's like I've won lotto, but thats another story.



The organic food industry still depends on the nutrients spewed out by high yield, oil based agriculture. As I explained in this post,

http://somersoft.com/forums/showpost.php?p=767366&postcount=125

Magic bullet, bragging about his staw bale garden and somehow thinking it was the organic answer to food production. It's hilarious!!. The straw bales were made from straw imported from a grain farm. The compost that he put in the straw beds was made from animal manure, animals fed grain, and then even more straw, all mixed together in an energy intensive, machinery intensive process, all these inputs from a conventional grain farm. This conventional farmer who exported all this stuff from his farm now has no straw there to protect his soil, and will now have to replace the nutrients removed, so will order in more fertilizer.

If todays agriculture is really unsustainable, I don't know why everyone on here is talking about buying houses. If it's unsustainable, you would go and buy some arable dirt, because that is where the profit will be when everything crashes and burns. Plus some guns and ammo, and build a bunker. And when conventional agricuture crashes, so will organic, because it won't get anymore straw and manure and compost from conventional farms, from the billion tonnes of grain that is fed to animals.

Agriculture today is not unsustainable. Yields are still rising, although platueing out, as there is not much else left to do to increase them higher. Soil erosion is now under control, as the soil is fertile and covered in mulch. Nutrients are now replaced at the same rate as removal. If agriculture is really unsustainable, then so is about 5 billion people! If you really analyse organic agriculture, and follow the inputs it uses, and where they come from it is all so obvious.

The blokes who made that movie should take some time to explain how the world would be fed, without all this nasty fertilizer and chemical farmers use. And if it was not used, farmers would be the only winners, as food production crashed.


See ya's.
 
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To feed the world for the next 40 years, more food will have to produced in those 40 years, than have been produced in total over the last 500 years. Over the last 50 years grain yeilds in australia have increased an average of 18 kg/ha per year, or a tonne per ha. kg/ha per mm of rainfall has increased by more.
 
Hi TC

For me it was the sheer size of some of these American mega-corporations and the production line/factory systemisation of it all

It’s a change from my youth of chooks in the back pen, a veggie garden, getting the yearly calf/lamb/sheep/pig off the local farmer to fatten and slaughter

We used to send Mangoes to the Perth markets (no longer), nowadays they get strip picked when still green sent down and gassed when ready to be ripened, they just don't taste the same as the fruit sugars haven't fully developed

I read somewhere that the average apple/ornage has 1/8 of the nutrients the same item had in our youth?

I can't remember the last time I had a nice tomato from the shops, they all taste watery? The hydroponic ones smell like the real thing, but still dissapoint flavour-wise

Times change, that’s a given, It’s just that the movie is an eye opener to the U.S business conglomerates
 
Hi TC

For me it was the sheer size of some of these American mega-corporations and the production line/factory systemisation of it all


I'd think it's the same here, just on a smaller scale as we are a smaller country. There is only a few dairy companies, a few poultry companies, etc. It's just globalisation. As anything gets bigger it can get more efficient. The few seed companies here all all US owned anyway.

Rural land is seen as a growth asset, and increasingly so. So the income yields are getting less and less as land prices go nuts. The last farm I bought, I paid $2000 a hectare for. It would now be worth $7,500 per hectare conservatively, but some land is now going for $10,000. This is in 15 years.

Around here big farms are being bought up by coal mining hundred-millionares and billionares. And I'm not talking about to dig up for coal, I'm talking about as a store of assets. I am neighbour to one, and about 20 ks from another, and I know others are ready to buy. They are taking their coal profits, and locking it into farm land. This is farms worth 20 million or so. I no longer see my future as one where I buy any more land, but rather one where I work with, for, and help manage these big places next door, as these bloke know nothing about agriculture.



I read somewhere that the average apple/orange has 1/8 of the nutrients the same item had in our youth?

I call that a load of garbage. I'd like to see some evidence.


I can't remember the last time I had a nice tomato from the shops, they all taste watery? The hydroponic ones smell like the real thing, but still dissapoint flavour-wise

Times change, that’s a given, It’s just that the movie is an eye opener to the U.S business conglomerates


Isn't this a consumer thing? If tomatoes taste like rubbish, isn't there a market for some bloke to make a motsa, sweep away the opposition and bring in a better tasting tomato?

And I don't really find tomatos any different, but I dislike the ones that are full of air. Hydroponic ones are more reliable I'd reckon. But surely hydroponic tomatos are a tick for intensive factory farming?


See ya's.
 
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I know it sounds like a bunch of middle class toss, but I find that the best tasting produce does come from buying in season, locally, direct from the producer.

The thing is, we as a society now expect to be able to buy, say, a tomato at any time of the year. I tend not to eat them in winter because they are out of season and generally rubbish.

Same with Asparagus. I don't know how you can justify buying asparagus from say Peru out of season.

Embrace seasonality. Make informed food choices. You'll get better tasting food as a result.
 
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