Today Show this morning

The median is a useless stat.

It is the halfway price of the area, based on all sales.


Pay no attention to it.

I hear what you are saying BayView, and understand that the median is somewhat unreliable. However a drop of 45% is rather startling nonetheless. Just going off the top of my head with figures but I believe the median in Kew fell from 1.6 million to around $800,000. Naturally there are markets within markets and Kew is no exception. The higher end (over 1 mil) has softened.

For a fall that great to occur some people in the suburb are selling for very reduced prices. May not be the very top end (ie the Pratts etc), and not the bottom end - but perhaps the middle. Possibly people who have been hit by the stock market, and lost their jobs. (Bankers etc).

Is anyone looking to buy into these markets and take advantage of the slide in prices? Great time to pick up a bargain I would think!

Regards Jason.
 
When the stock market goes down, typically the high price properties will take a big drop. And the beach houses and holiday homes.

But talking about Kew. When I was at uni (many moons ago) a friend was going out with a girl who used to live on the biggest block of land in Kew.

Her dad was the caretaker of the cemetary.

This used to cause a lot of very interesting situations when new boyfriends brought her home after a date :)
 
I wish I shared the optimism of others. But once the FHBG is finished, unemployment reaches 8.5% and interest rates begin to rise, why wont house prices decrease?

Take a look at where interest rates and unemployment were when the last boom started. And there was no FHBG either.
 
I wish I shared the optimism of others. But once the FHBG is finished, unemployment reaches 8.5% and interest rates begin to rise, why wont house prices decrease?

You always have to be optimistic and positive Jackstar.

Doesn't mean you have on the rose-coloured glasses though.

If you are able to buy, there will always be a good deal in any climate.

If the climate is not that favourable, there are hedges against loss you can use; such as better rent returns, lower LVR's, depreciation. These are cashflow improvers and will allow you to hold an investment through most turmoil.

For example; here's how I think;

now the rates are low, and rents are going up. This means cashflows are improving. If the property prices go flat or decrease after the FHB's disappear, then your buying price will be lower, which improves the cashflows even more. Nice.

Then, add to this some debt reduction immediately after settlement and further re-investment of tax returns and excess rent monies (if this is the case) then your investment is relatively safe from economic conditions.

This is my mindset, my ongoing strategy, and as you can see, it means that the hoo-ha from the various media sources and street people (sorry; people on the street) means nothing if you look at things in this way.

Think of this; most people are a herd. Herds do the same thing as each other. Most people are down in confidence and even scared of property right now.

They will do nothing if they were looking to buy, or even get out of property.

Meanwhile, there is opportunity and a few will see that and act on it.

The herd will wait until everyone else is feeling confident again before they do anything, and many will have sold out by then and want to get back in.

I have been hearing about massive drops in property values for over 30 years, and there are some. They are operator error caused in ever case I'm willing to bet.

No-one ever sold a house at a loss because they felt like it. They were forced to.

Meanwhile, the guys who plod along, buy a decent house in a decent area, at a reasonable price, with a safe LVR margin, don't get silly - these guys just keep on gettin' richer steadily.

When you get more established, then you can up the stakes and play a bit more near the edge - a bit more.

The guys who get burned play very close to the edge. They borrow too much, they don't do enough research, they pay too much, they get too little cashflow back from rent etc, they use every cent of equity and buy too much property in one go, they capitalise interest, or never pay down debt, or all of the above together, and so on.

It's more exciting and the returns are higher, but it's more dangerous too.

I don't expect my properties to fall at all in the near future. If they do; it'll be not much, and I won't care if they do.

Actually; I will care, because it will slow down my ability to purchase again sooner, and I'll have to sit around and wait until things improve LVR wise again, but that's all.
 
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Steve Keen WILL Be Right!

Yep, you heard me right.

Steve Keen will be right and property values WILL indeed fall 40% in the next few years.

but...

here's the thing. This fall wont be in real dollars. It will be proven to be the case by how its measured.

I was having a 'discussion' with a doom and gloomer the other day and he was insistent that property would go down 30% in 2 years time. But he didnt want to measure it in dollar terms, rather in terms of purchasing power in gold!

What the???

But he was adamant that since gold was about to underpin the Chinese economy and that would soon be the defacto currency...that you had to equate property prices in terms of the purchasing power of gold and that would prove that property had dropped.

(Even if a $400k house now costs $500k in 2 years time.)

So in a few years time, all these economists will be rushing around to tell you how they were right.

It's all in the way you measure it.

PS If I buy a house for $400k now and sell it in 2 years time for $500k and pay off the loan, I'll be able to buy a really nice car with what's left over. But these economists will be telling me I lost lots of money. I guess that's why they dont drive nice cars.
 
Trogdor,

Yep, Im pretty sure that the sun will set tonight and rise tommorrow morning........if that's what you're getting at.....:)

I can already see the SS heretic label being printed now.

Read Jingos' post above..........already has happened in some sectors of the market.....why should any particular other sector be immune?

I think you'll find that after some critical analysis that unlikey is possibly a poor choice of word.

Go look up JT Reason in the local library. Read some of his works.

I'm not saying that it will or it won't, just that eyes wide shut doesn't cut it in the real world..........:cool: (not meaning you of course)

ciao

Nor

median prices are useless - they change month to month.

no one here is eyes wide shut - and don't post wiki links as proof because ANYONE - including me - can edit content.

All specualtive suburbs have fallen a long way - 10 - 20 - 40%.

never mind the fact they TRIPLED in price on a few short years....
 
Yep, you heard me right.

Steve Keen will be right and property values WILL indeed fall 40% in the next few years.

but...

here's the thing. This fall wont be in real dollars. It will be proven to be the case by how its measured.

I was having a 'discussion' with a doom and gloomer the other day and he was insistent that property would go down 30% in 2 years time. But he didnt want to measure it in dollar terms, rather in terms of purchasing power in gold!

What the???

But he was adamant that since gold was about to underpin the Chinese economy and that would soon be the defacto currency...that you had to equate property prices in terms of the purchasing power of gold and that would prove that property had dropped.

(Even if a $400k house now costs $500k in 2 years time.)

So in a few years time, all these economists will be rushing around to tell you how they were right.

It's all in the way you measure it.

PS If I buy a house for $400k now and sell it in 2 years time for $500k and pay off the loan, I'll be able to buy a really nice car with what's left over. But these economists will be telling me I lost lots of money. I guess that's why they dont drive nice cars.

yes! THAT's what we meant! COMPARED to the gold standard - sorry, did i forget to mention that? :rolleyes: yeah, tipping point Q1 2008.

maybe if we bought and sold houses with gold it'd be a real worry. but we don't.

wood for trees folks....
 
He has obviously been watching the USA market and thinks that we are on the same path as them. Well the fact is that the recession has pretty much hit the bottom now or it is near so how can prices still drop by 40%? The other thing is that Australia has a completely different housing market from the USA and we have much higher housing demands here and this will only get worse as more immigrants keep coming in by the boat loads :rolleyes: Has anyone tried to rent a home out in Sydney, if you enjoy been part of a stampede then that's what it is like, it is a frenzy, there is no housing flood here, only a shortage!

Please explain how the recession "has pretty much hit the bottom now" when Australia is not in recession yet.

Thanyou
 
Well....I think this is academic....the IMF has declared that Australia is in recession....and by the posturing coming from the K-Rudd....we are in one.

I don't think we have hit bottom as unemployment is a lagging indicator. Anyone who thinks we are out of the woods is being naive....we have just started down the slippery slope.:p

Having said that I think there will be some fanstastic buying opportunities in in Aug to Dec 2009 in property. Why??.....because all the planets are aligning:

1. Removal of the FHB grant post June 2009 to be replaced with grant for new homes....will not have a big impact
2. Banks are tightening credit - now you need more that 10% deposit unless you have been a good risk
3. Unemployment is heading up rapidly....foresee 7% by July
4. Due to a huge deficit...it is likely that "middle class welfare" will be curtailed or removed...thus taking more money out og the economy!
5. Less experienced property investors will panick and sell as rents will settle due to high unemployment in the wealthier suburbs. This will translate to fall in median prices whilst lower end is supported. But people will read it as the property market is falling rapidly!

Bring on the next few months.....:D

Please explain how the recession "has pretty much hit the bottom now" when Australia is not in recession yet.

Thanyou
 
median prices are useless - they change month to month.

no one here is eyes wide shut - and don't post wiki links as proof because ANYONE - including me - can edit content.

All specualtive suburbs have fallen a long way - 10 - 20 - 40%.

never mind the fact they TRIPLED in price on a few short years....

If median prices are useless why did you post this?
http://www.somersoft.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51746

They are useless when they don't support your POV. :D
 
Well....I think this is academic....the IMF has declared that Australia is in recession....and by the posturing coming from the K-Rudd....we are in one.

I don't think we have hit bottom as unemployment is a lagging indicator. Anyone who thinks we are out of the woods is being naive....we have just started down the slippery slope.:p

Having said that I think there will be some fanstastic buying opportunities in in Aug to Dec 2009 in property. Why??.....because all the planets are aligning:

1. Removal of the FHB grant post June 2009 to be replaced with grant for new homes....will not have a big impact
2. Banks are tightening credit - now you need more that 10% deposit unless you have been a good risk
3. Unemployment is heading up rapidly....foresee 7% by July
4. Due to a huge deficit...it is likely that "middle class welfare" will be curtailed or removed...thus taking more money out og the economy!
5. Less experienced property investors will panick and sell as rents will settle due to high unemployment in the wealthier suburbs. This will translate to fall in median prices whilst lower end is supported. But people will read it as the property market is falling rapidly!

Bring on the next few months.....:D

Cheers, thanyou and for the record agree with all your points to an extent.

I just found monsoons original post bewildering, that the worst of the recession was over.
 
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