Totally appauled of some people's behaviour

[Murphy69]

Excellent post Murphy.

On a side note, is it weird I'm more upset by people dragging a flag on the ground at musical festivals than those trying to be outrageous and inflammatory by burning it?

Yep, totally weird. I'd go see someone about it!

Actually, I can sort of understand it. Someone dragging a flag in the mud at a music festival has brought along a flag because they think it shows patriotism, and then get pissed up and drag it in the mud without a thought.

At least someone who is burning the flag is doing it because they have a genuine belief (regardless of how I might feel about that belief).

Even though I consider myself 'patriotic' I'm always nervous of the term. I feel that many of the openly patriotic flag-waving types have contributed less than some of those that just get on and do it. IE: the Charlie Teo's etc.

I've come into contact with many from uniformed service organisations, and lots of younger ones join for a wide range reasons, partially a sense of 'duty' but also for employment, a trade, an education etc. Almost without exception first/second generation Australians are the first to say 'I joined to give something back to the country that took us in.'

Murphy

 

[jaycee]

My saying is "there is a lot of cream in their coffee"
Quote:
Originally Posted by topcropper
Yeah, maybe it does?

But then, if aboriginals resent being invaded, then really it's only the few full blooded aboriginals that still live at Alice Springs and Tannent Creek and Catherine and a few other places who can complain. I didn't see any full blood aboriginals in the protesters. There were plenty who were whiter then me after I've got a tan. So they all have white blood in them, some a bit, most a lot. Most would be mainly white, with a little bit of aboriginal. So it is a fact that if any non full blood aboriginal resents being invaded, it means they would rather not exist and would never have been born into this life.

Weird.


See ya's.

At what point does a person stop claiming they are aboriginal?
I know...when the benefits stop.

So then does that view suggest then that you believe there is something completely wrong with the whole aboroignal race compared to either the rest of all other humans, or at least compared to the "rest of us" ??

Just actually trying to understand exacty what you are trying to say here

 

[buzzlightyear]

...Even though I consider myself 'patriotic' I'm always nervous of the term. I feel that many of the openly patriotic flag-waving types have contributed less than some of those that just get on and do it....

When I hear the word partriot I tend to think of this (Cronulla 2005)

not this......

 

[kathryn d]

So then does that view suggest then that you believe there is something completely wrong with the whole aboroignal race compared to either the rest of all other humans, or at least compared to the "rest of us" ??

Just actually trying to understand exacty what you are trying to say here

Who said there was anything wrong.
I made a statement.
When you take something, whether it be color of skin, a can of paint, chocolate milk...and you add enough of the same, but in a lighter shade, such as white...the result is you have a mixture.

Don't try to make everyone out to be a racist.
You know very well, where I stand on these types of issues.

I want everyone to be treated the same, not special.
Until that happens, they will always be second class citizens.

I see first hand, the aboriginals here in Tennant Creek.

There are 2 that visibly have jobs. The others walk the streets, or argue on the streets, or hang around the pubs and cafes.

Very little cream in their coffee, here.

The ones on TV, such as Top Cropper mentions, are as white as I am.
So maybe I'm aboriginal too?
My grandmother was born here, and her parents...maybe I should look into that?

 

[buzzlightyear]

Yesterday was a good example of the fact that, sometimes, people are just dicks.

So exaggeration, misrepresentation, lies & incitement to a sympathetic crowd is not only owned by one side of politics.

I believe the Convoy of No Consequence/Incontinence/No Confidence was lambasted by the likes Anthony Albanese, Kelvin Thompson et al and for the role of Tony Abbott in a very similar fashion.

I guess the difference with the left is they get their apparatchik comrades to do the dirty work (ie Kim Sattler & Tony Hodges).

 

[jaycee]

Who said there was anything wrong.
I made a statement.
When you take something, whether it be color of skin, a can of paint, chocolate milk...and you add enough of the same, but in a lighter shade, such as white...the result is you have a mixture.

Don't try to make everyone out to be a racist.
You know very well, where I stand on these types of issues.

I want everyone to be treated the same, not special.
Until that happens, they will always be second class citizens.

I see first hand, the aboriginals here in Tennant Creek.

There are 2 that visibly have jobs. The others walk the streets, or argue on the streets, or hang around the pubs and cafes.

Very little cream in their coffee, here.

The ones on TV, such as Top Cropper mentions, are as white as I am.
So maybe I'm aboriginal too?
My grandmother was born here, and her parents...maybe I should look into that?

I'm just saing my reactoin to what I read from kathrynd & topcropper, specificallt this:

So it is a fact that if any non full blood aboriginal resents being invaded, it means they would rather not exist and would never have been born into this life.
Weird.


See ya's.

At what point does a person stop claiming they are aboriginal?
I know...when the benefits stop.


For someone to say a race opf people act like kathryn described in the last sentence above, what does that say about that race ? How do we see ourselves in comparison to that ?

I don't beleive it's like you said in your last sentence above, so I was just wondering what that implied about the aboiriginal race like I jsut asked above.

I wasn't making you out to be anything, I just asked for further clarifcation about what you said, you dont have to indulge me or respond if you don't want to, it' is after all, like everything everyone else posts, just another meaningless post, no matter how much we tell ourselves it's important.

 

[Mr. Fabulous]

The way some carry on would make you think only white Australian's can possibly be racist.

Minor Threat - Guilty of Being White

I'm sorry
For something I didn't do
Lynched somebody
But I don't know who
You blame me for slavery
A hundred years before I was born

Guilty of being white

I'm a convict
Of a racist crime
I've only served
19 years of my time

Guilty of being white

 

[Dazz]

Thanks buzz for the link,

In February 1972 the Aboriginal Tent Embassy presented a list of demands to Parliament:

• Control of the Northern Territory as a State within the Commonwealth of Australia; the parliament in the Northern Territory to be predominantly Aboriginal with title and mining rights to all land within the Territory.
• Legal title and mining rights to all other presently existing reserve lands and settlements throughout Australia.
• The preservation of all sacred sites throughout Australia.
• Legal title and mining rights to areas in and around all Australian capital cities.
• Compensation money for lands not returnable to take the form of a down-payment of six billion dollars and an annual percentage of the gross national income

These demands were rejected by the Govt in 1972.

Can anyone confirm whether these are still the demands and form the root of their cause, or have they changed in 40 years ?? If so, what are the new demands ??

I'd imagine if they were asking for 6 Billion back in '72, that figure would be multiples of that by now. What percentage of gross national income were they demanding ??

I'd imagine the areas around all capital cities would have changed enormously since back in 1972. Where is the demand line today ??

Does anyone know what "their cause" is today ??

 

[Aaron_C]

With $6bn back in 1972 they could have built a very large tent made of gold and marble.

 

[buzzlightyear]

$6billion in 1972 adjusted for inflation (as per RBA website) is $52.44 billion in 2010.

 

[Macca]

I don't know the figures but since 1972 there has been a LOT!! of money spent trying to help the aboriginals, maybe 6bil has already been spent.

We tried giving it to the land councils to administer but some of them didn't do so well and ended up in court for all sorts of things that were illegal.

 

[weg]

Weg, you realise she did ask questions about other ethnic minority groups?

No, I said 'separate' studies, to determine if other groups might have racist tendencies as well.

Macca, I agree about the grants and being 'encouraged' to do certain studies at Uni level, but they would still have to be fit in with what is considered PC, and unfortunately branding Australians as racist is very acceptable nowadays.

If on the flip side if you wanted to study how racist aboriginals are, good luck. Not only will you not get funding, you can probably kiss your career goodbye - not that I think doing a study like that is OK either.

And just for the record, I don't consider myself racist, and completely support everyone live harmoniously and being treated as equals, regardless or race and ethnicity. Just not supporting of any unbalanced views, studies supported by biased individuals who usually make matters worse.

 

[Dazz]

$6billion in 1972 adjusted for inflation (as per RBA website) is $52.44 billion in 2010.

So, using 3% as an inflation figure, that would be $ 55.6 Billion in 2012.


That figure could not be paid....it would bring the Govt and the entire country economically to it's knees. Is that the real motive ?? It would be consistent with the spitting on and burning of the Australian flag as a symbolic gesture.


Looking at the wording, that figure is merely a "down payment" that they are demanding.....and that excludes the entire NT, along with legal and mining rights everywhere else.....along with an unspecified % of GNI or GDP ??


What exactly are they protesting about ??

 

[Fifth]

I think this gets to the heart of it for me. In recent years we've actually seen a lot more 'pride' in the Australian flag, and sometimes I think that 'Pride' is actually inappropriate.

For me, seeing people with an Australian flag sticker on their face at a sporting event, well, thats ok.

But then a few years ago I was at the burial service for some servicemen at Polygon Wood, and there were some Aussie backpackers there wearing the Aussie flag as a cape. Other than that, they were were well behaved.

That year I also went to the ANZAC Services near Bullecourt, and after at Diggers Corner (near Villiers-Bretenaux). After the minutes silence, some Aussies, again wrapped in flags, did the 'Aussie Aussie Aussie, Oi, Oi, Oi' thing. (whilst wearing fuzzy orange wigs....)

So, mixed feelings there obviously people taking an interest in our heritage is a good thing, but somewhere along the lines there has been a failure to communicate some of the deeper aspects of that heritage.

So when bogans attach huge flags to their cars, along with racist slogans on their cars, then suddenly the flag starts to become attached to identities that others may disagree with. That disagreement then gets expressed against the symbol.

Its not right, and I'm not condoning it, but I think we should careful how we use our flag. Its represents all of Australia, and that's a pretty broad swathe of society. Its not an item of clothing, or decoration, or a beach towel.

I don't think we should go over the top in revering it, but we should respect that it stands for something, and we should be careful what we let it stand for.

Murphy

New countries often struggle with their sense of identity and even more so with their sense of pride.

Like many Australians, I have mixed feelings about patriotism. I'm second generation on one side and who knows how many several on the other. I feel incredibly lucky to have been born an Australian. Sometimes, though, I feel a bit ashamed. I guess I'm what many on this forum would refer to as a self-loathing leftie, even though I don't vote for the Latte-Sipping Tree-Planting Child-Eating Communist Party or whatever.

This country is, within a global context, a lucky country. But why feel proud of being lucky? A lottery winner doesn't feel a sense of pride. We're a small population on a large slab of land. We dig things out of the ground. We're an unexceptional people, overall. A lucky, unexceptional people. I feel nothing when I see the Australian flag. There are many things I love about Australia, our flag just doesn't happen to be one them.

I often think the oi oi oi crowd offensive. As offensive as an angry mob attacking our PM and opposition leader? Based purely upon the sheer thoughtlessness, perhaps.

 

[jaycee]

So, using 3% as an inflation figure, that would be $ 55.6 Billion in 2012.


That figure could not be paid....it would bring the Govt and the entire country economically to it's knees. Is that the real motive ?? It would be consistent with the spitting on and burning of the Australian flag as a symbolic gesture.


Looking at the wording, that figure is merely a "down payment" that they are demanding.....and that excludes the entire NT, along with legal and mining rights everywhere else.....along with an unspecified % of GNI or GDP ??


What exactly are they protesting about ??

Why are ou asking people whom you are aware don;t know hte answer when you probably know how to get it yourself ?

If you want to know so urgently all of a sudden there are better ways to find out than to pretend to be aksing us (?)

 

[Dazz]

Please don't tell me what I am aware of or what I probably know.

If you don't know what they have been protesting for, just say so.

I've already said I don't know. My question was, does anyone here know what they have been protesting for, for over 40 years now ??

 

[jaycee]

I don't know

 

[Macca]

I have asked a few aboriginals what do they perceive reconciliation to mean. What does it take for Every aboriginal person to say "yep, that is great, now lets all live together in harmony"

My mate on the Land Council said "We argue all the time about everything, we can't even agree, let alone other LCs"

So I doubt that it is possible to satisfy the keen protesters no matter what.

Just a thought, if we were to give them half of all the land back, clear all the buildings, roads,power lines, water supply, phone towers and dams and let it go back to native vegetation and say here you are, you guys live in this half.

If you want anything from the our half then we will sell it to you in exchange for some of your products.

I wonder would they be happy ?

 

[onetwothree]

Who said there was anything wrong.
I made a statement.
When you take something, whether it be color of skin, a can of paint, chocolate milk...and you add enough of the same, but in a lighter shade, such as white...the result is you have a mixture.

Don't try to make everyone out to be a racist.
You know very well, where I stand on these types of issues.

I want everyone to be treated the same, not special.
Until that happens, they will always be second class citizens.

I see first hand, the aboriginals here in Tennant Creek.

There are 2 that visibly have jobs. The others walk the streets, or argue on the streets, or hang around the pubs and cafes.

Very little cream in their coffee, here.

The ones on TV, such as Top Cropper mentions, are as white as I am.
So maybe I'm aboriginal too?
My grandmother was born here, and her parents...maybe I should look into that?

It's unbelievable that 'what happened on Australia day' came down as a race related topic in this forum....Abbot (or his team) had the freedom of speech and the object of his freedom of speech retaliate. It's not about getting economic benefits...It's about respecting each other...
By the way...getting benefits is not the same as getting respect....
Shame....I wonder if there is any aboriginal descend person in the forum who can have their say....

 

[Aaron_C]

It's unbelievable that 'what happened on Australia day' came down as a race related topic in this forum....Abbot (or his team) had the freedom of speech and the object of his freedom of speech retaliate. It's not about getting economic benefits...It's about respecting each other...

And I suppose banging on the glass of the restaurant, trying to jump in front of the PM/OP's car and trying to use the PM's dropped shoe as political leverage is considered respectful?