TV show- Extreme Cheapskates

[MTR]

Look at the link I posted. Italians eat virtually the same amount of calories as Americans.

All I can say is I have been to Italy many times, all my family are from Lake Como, I don't see obese, overweight people in this part of the world. They are too vain about fashion and fitting into their skinny leg jeans

 

[cimbom]

Since people don't like facts and are unlikely to click on the link, I've posted it below for your convenience

Country Daily dietary energy consumption per capita in kilocalories and kilojoules (2005-07)

United States of America 3,770 15,770
Austria 3,760 15,730
Greece 3,700 15,480
Belgium 3,690 15,440
Luxembourg 3,690 15,440
Italy 3,660 15,310
Malta 3,590 15,020
Portugal 3,580 14,980
France 3,550 14,850
Israel 3,540 14,810
Canada 3,530 14,770
Germany 3,530 14,770
Ireland 3,530 14,770
Romania 3,510 14,690
Turkey 3,480 14,560
Norway 3,460 14,480
Brazil 3,456 14,460
Hungary 3,440 14,390
United Kingdom 3,440 14,390
Lithuania 3,420 14,310
Switzerland 3,420 14,310
Denmark 3,400 14,230
Poland 3,400 14,230
Kazakhstan 3,360 14,060
Iceland 3,330 13,930
Czech Republic 3,320 13,890
Tunisia 3,310 13,850
Cuba 3,300 13,810
Russian Federation 3,270 13,680
Spain 3,270 13,680
Mexico 3,250 13,600
Netherlands 3,240 13,560
Morocco 3,230 13,510
Ukraine 3,230 13,510
Finland 3,220 13,470
Slovenia 3,220 13,470
Cyprus 3,200 13,390
Australia 3,190 13,350
Egypt 3,160 13,220
New Zealand 3,150 13,180
Libyan Arab Jamahiriya 3,140 13,140
United Arab Emirates 3,140 13,140
Estonia 3,130 13,100
Saudi Arabia 3,130 13,100
Sweden 3,120 13,050
Algeria 3,110 13,010
Dominica 3,110 13,010
Lebanon 3,110 13,010
Belarus 3,090 12,930
Bosnia and Herzegovina 3,080 12,890
Republic of Korea 3,070 12,840
Barbados 3,050 12,760
Syrian Arab Republic 3,050 12,760
Iran 3,040 12,720
Kuwait 3,040 12,720
Fiji 3,030 12,680
Latvia 3,020 12,640
Argentina 3,000 12,550
Azerbaijan 3,000 12,550
Brunei Darussalam 2,990 12,510
Croatia 2,990 12,510
South Africa 2,990 12,510
Jordan 2,980 12,470
Macedonia 2,980 12,470
China 2,970 12,430
Netherlands Antilles 2,970 12,430
Chile 2,960 12,380
Mauritius 2,940 12,300
French Polynesia 2,920 12,220
Malaysia 2,910 12,180
Republic of Moldova 2,910 12,180
Albania 2,900 12,130
Kiribati 2,890 12,090
Samoa 2,880 12,050
Slovakia 2,880 12,050
Ghana 2,850 11,920
Jamaica 2,850 11,920
Mauritania 2,820 11,800
Uruguay 2,820 11,800
Costa Rica 2,810 11,760
Georgia 2,810 11,760
Japan 2,810 11,760
Saint Vincent and the Grenadines 2,810 11,760
New Caledonia 2,790 11,670
Viet Nam 2,770 11,590
Bulgaria 2,760 11,550
Guyana 2,750 11,510
Turkmenistan 2,750 11,510
Saint Lucia 2,740 11,460
Gabon 2,730 11,420
Belize 2,720 11,380
Vanuatu 2,720 11,380
Nigeria 2,710 11,340
Serbia and Montenegro 2,710 11,340
Trinidad and Tobago 2,710 11,340
Bahamas 2,700 11,300
Maldives 2,680 11,210
Burkina Faso 2,670 11,170
Kyrgyzstan 2,670 11,170
Colombia 2,660 11,130
Sao Tome and Principe 2,660 11,130
Paraguay 2,620 10,960
Venezuela 2,610 10,920
Honduras 2,600 10,880
El Salvador 2,590 10,840
Mali 2,580 10,790
Cape Verde 2,550 10,670
Bermuda 2,540 10,630
Indonesia 2,540 10,630
Guinea 2,530 10,590
Thailand 2,530 10,590
Uzbekistan 2,530 10,590
Philippines 2,520 10,540
Benin 2,510 10,500
Congo 2,510 10,500
C?te d'Ivoire 2,510 10,500
Lesotho 2,470 10,330
Suriname 2,470 10,330
Panama 2,450 10,250
Saint Kitts and Nevis 2,450 10,250
Myanmar 2,440 10,210
Peru 2,430 10,170
Seychelles 2,430 10,170
Solomon Islands 2,430 10,170
Grenada 2,420 10,130
Nicaragua 2,400 10,040
Sri Lanka 2,390 10,000
Gambia 2,350 9,830
Namibia 2,350 9,830
Nepal 2,350 9,830
Antigua and Barbuda 2,320 9,710
Senegal 2,320 9,710
Niger 2,310 9,670
Swaziland 2,310 9,670
Ecuador 2,300 9,620
India 2,300 9,620
Guinea-Bissau 2,290 9,580
Sudan 2,270 9,500
Cameroon 2,260 9,460
Djibouti 2,260 9,460
Dominican Republic 2,260 9,460
Armenia 2,250 9,410
Bangladesh 2,250 9,410
Cambodia 2,250 9,410
Mongolia 2,250 9,410
Pakistan 2,250 9,410
Uganda 2,250 9,410
Botswana 2,240 9,370
Lao People's Democratic Republic 2,230 9,330
Zimbabwe 2,210 9,250
Guatemala 2,170 9,080
Liberia 2,160 9,040
Democratic People's Republic of Korea 2,150 9,000
Togo 2,150 9,000
Madagascar 2,130 8,910
Malawi 2,130 8,910
Palestine 2,130 8,910
Sierra Leone 2,130 8,910
Tajikistan 2,130 8,910
Bolivia 2,090 8,740
Mozambique 2,070 8,660
Kenya 2,060 8,620
Rwanda 2,050 8,580
Chad 2,040 8,540
Yemen 2,030 8,490
Timor-Leste 2,020 8,450
United Republic of Tanzania 2,020 8,450
Central African Republic 1,960 8,200
Angola 1,950 8,160
Ethiopia 1,950 8,160
Zambia 1,890 7,910
Comoros 1,860 7,780
Haiti 1,850 7,740
Burundi 1,680 7,030
Democratic Republic of the Congo 1,590 6,650
Eritrea 1,590 6,650

 

[cimbom]

All I can say is I have been to Italy many times, all my family are from Lake Como, I don't see obese, overweight people in this part of the world. They are too vain about fashion and fitting into their skinny leg jeans

You misunderstand me. I said Italians like their food and don't eat tiny little servings. They are not overweight because, like most people in Europe, they live an active lifestyle. By active I don't mean going to gym regularly but that their lifestyle involves regular, incidental activity because they live in compact, well-planned cities

 

[sanj]

After the Extreme Cheapskate show, the next show talked about trials they did.For example:
One group of people were fed for 11 days. Over this time each meal was increased in the serving size, and each and every time, the participants ate everything on their plate. They didn't even notice that the serving size was increasing.

interesting. i can see how that would be the case.

 

[MTR]

Hi Cimbom

I thought we were discussing obesity rates, your stats don't necessarily correlate I expect there will be many reasons why this is the case??

Cheers
MTR

 

[MTR]

interesting. i can see how that would be the case.

Food can be an addiction for many which seems to be something that is ignored in society, I do not understand why??

 

[MTR]

You misunderstand me. I said Italians like their food and don't eat tiny little servings. They are not overweight because, like most people in Europe, they live an active lifestyle. By active I don't mean going to gym regularly but that their lifestyle involves regular, incidental activity because they live in compact, well-planned cities

OK, I see what you are getting at, thanks

 

[kathryn d]

The shows also said some other interesting things.

Food ingredients are usually the cheapest factors in a restaurant, but labour and overhead usually being most expensive.
Most people won't order seconds after their meal, but they are more apt to order an initial larger serving at a higher cost, as long as it is persceived as good value.

People who eat a larger lunch, and say they will only have a light dinner, usually eat the same amount as they usually do, when it does come time to eat.


I have noticed a lot of the dinner plates and bowls are a lot larger now, than when I was a kid (60's-70's).
Sometimes when you serve a meal on these huge plates, a serve of food looks so small.

 

[Fifth]

You misunderstand me. I said Italians like their food and don't eat tiny little servings. They are not overweight because, like most people in Europe, they live an active lifestyle. By active I don't mean going to gym regularly but that their lifestyle involves regular, incidental activity because they live in compact, well-planned cities

I know you're crusading to rid the world of suburbia, but Europeans aren't less overweight because they live in 'compact well-planned cities'. Most Britons live in medium density cities and the rate of obesity is comparable to Australia. Likewise, the less affluent areas of NYC have very high rates of obesity.

I also question that Europeans are thinner because they're more active. Studies consistently put Australians as more active than Italians, French et al. Perhaps these studies are flawed?

I'm more inclined to believe that calories are a poor measure of food consumption. As trite as it may sound - not all calories are created equal.

2 people might be consuming exactly the amount of calories but one is eating nothing but junk food which deprives the body of nutrients, strains internal organs and slows down metabolism whilst the other is eating a more nutrient-rich diet which keeps the body healthy and allows food to be processed and metabolised more efficiently.

The reason Mexicans have become the most obese nation is because the cost of 'healthy' food has become prohibitive and junk food has become a staple. I imagine Mexicans would be on average more active than say the French or Italians simply because so much of the employment there requires at least some physical labour.

 

[geoffw]

The reason Mexicans have become the most obese nation is because the cost of 'healthy' food has become prohibitive and junk food has become a staple. I imagine Mexicans would be on average more active than say the French or Italians simply because so much of the employment there requires at least some physical labour.

Perhaps a bit of a stereotype.

Mexico has had a very rapidly growing middle class in recent years.

 

[Fifth]

Perhaps a bit of a stereotype.

Mexico has had a very rapidly growing middle class in recent years.

Very true. As with most industrialised countries, the majority of Mexicans work in the service industry which generally isn't as labour intensive, with agriculture and manufacturing workers making up a smaller percentage of workers.

I'd hazard a guess are that the most likely to be overweight or obese are the lower paid workers who generally, but not always, have more physically exerting roles than higher paid workers - even being a waiter or working a checkout burns more calories than sitting behind a computer.

My point was, I don't think Mexicans have necessarily become the most obese nation because they've become more lazy or inactive. It seems more correlated with dietary changes and a shift towards fast food.

Fun fact: Mexicans work longer hours than any other industrialised country. That said, fewer women are in paid employment, so this only applies to men really.

http://money.cnn.com/gallery/news/economy/2013/07/16/10-hardest-working-countries/index.html

Anyway, I apologise for my stereotyping and hope I didn't offend.

 

[lizzie]

Similar in Australia that it is cheaper to eat junk food than healthy ... cheaper to buy saturated oil and preservative filled frozen meat pies and chips that you bung in the oven, or deli bbq chook, than make your own.

Sad really.

 

[cimbom]

Similar in Australia that it is cheaper to eat junk food than healthy ... cheaper to buy saturated oil and preservative filled frozen meat pies and chips that you bung in the oven, or deli bbq chook, than make your own.

Sad really.

I think that's a myth, probably imported from the US or somewhere else. Especially for fast food which is very expensive in Australia compared to other places. I've made many meals where I've totalled up the cost of the ingredients and it comes to $1-2/serve. Those premade BBQ chickens are pretty small for the price. I've made 3kg of Portuguese style roast chicken (thigh cutlets skin-on) with 2 sides for ~$20 before and that's with buying everything from Woolworths. Could be cheaper again if bought from a smaller business.

 

[cimbom]

I know you're crusading to rid the world of suburbia, but Europeans aren't less overweight because they live in 'compact well-planned cities'. Most Britons live in medium density cities and the rate of obesity is comparable to Australia. Likewise, the less affluent areas of NYC have very high rates of obesity.

I should have worded my response better - I was specifically referring to southern Europe and parts of the east, although it would equally apply to northern European countries like the Netherlands and Scandinavian countries. The UK is a bit of an outlier in Europe.

Also, many low income people in New York City live in the outer parts of the boroughs which are less connected to public transport and are less walkable than Manhattan, parts of Brooklyn, etc. It's not uncommon for people earning say 100k in Manhattan to not own a car but for someone working in say hospitality in the Bronx to have one because there is not much public transport nearby. We saw this quite a bit when we visited.

I also question that Europeans are thinner because they're more active. Studies consistently put Australians as more active than Italians, French et al. Perhaps these studies are flawed?

Please show me these studies - I find it extremely hard to believe. People in these countries don't need to go to the gym or do similar activities because they normally live an active lifestyle just by doing their everyday activities.

 

[weg]

The fact is obesity along with higher rates of smoking and associated poor health is more prevalent in low socioeconomic communities where poverty is high and people less educated, regardless of whether they live in the suburbs or high density cities.

And I don't think you can make the assumption that all these areas have 'poor' transport, let alone assume that improving it is going to make a significant difference in how people shop, cook, exercise, etc.

 

[DaveM]

How did we get from being a cheapskate to debating obesity levels in mexico?

 

[cimbom]

The fact is obesity along with higher rates of smoking and associated poor health is more prevalent in low socioeconomic communities where poverty is high and people less educated, regardless of whether they live in the suburbs or high density cities.

And I don't think you can make the assumption that all these areas have 'poor' transport, let alone assume that improving it is going to make a significant difference in how people shop, cook, exercise, etc.

I'm not sure if you're aware but this is not something that I'm making up. There have been countless studies done that have concluded that there are many poor health outcomes associated with excessive suburban sprawl. I can post some journal articles for you if you like but I suspect you won't be interested in reading them. I find it quite funny that on a property investment forum, I need to actually convince people of the benefits of living in mixed use areas given that these areas are the most valuable real estate in the country. I wonder why that is?

 

[kathryn d]

How did we get from being a cheapskate to debating obesity levels in mexico?

Conversations naturally go off track...makes them interesting

 

[MaggieMcT]

I'm not sure if you're aware but this is not something that I'm making up. There have been countless studies done that have concluded that there are many poor health outcomes associated with excessive suburban sprawl. I can post some journal articles for you if you like but I suspect you won't be interested in reading them. I find it quite funny that on a property investment forum, I need to actually convince people of the benefits of living in mixed use areas given that these areas are the most valuable real estate in the country. I wonder why that is?

We recently moved from a suburb on the outskirts of Perth to being within 6km of the CBD. The improvement to our lives has been dramatic. My husband's commute was 10 - 12 hours a week, mine about 8 hrs a week. So between us 18 - 20 hours a week driving. Since the move we have most of that time back, and we are spending it well I think. We both have more time with our kids. We got rid of one car, and I walk to work most of the time. My husband uses public transport, and has started getting to training three times a week as well as the occasional run. We've both lost a fair amount of weight and feel happier and more relaxed.

It seems that few people walk to work but even if you are still driving the time saved on a long commute can make such a difference to your life.

As to the America v. Australia thing, I think America is such a large country with such a variance in cultural practices across the states that it is hard to compare it as one big culture. However, speaking from purely personal experience, when I went to the States for a summer about 10 years ago I found portion sizes quite shocking, and there was a dramatic difference at the time between what was considered a "normal" portion there and at home in Ireland. I'm talking about things like the size of a standard coffee, soda, chip bag, deli sandwich, restaurant portion, popcorn at the cinema etc etc. At the time my friends and I were sincerely appalled at the size of the portions offered as the norm. My how things have changed! In Ireland now everything is at least where it was in the States 10 years ago, or a bit worse, and the States I think has gone a little downhill from there.

The other thing we noticed was how hard it was to buy fresh food there - fruit and vegetables and meat to cook at home. We did not live in an affluent area (students!) and most of the big supermarkets carried very little fresh food, unlike at home. Also different from Ireland was the fact that only the very high end restaurants served truly good food - almost everything else was sugar, salt and fat laden starchy carbs in various forms.

I would say that my experience of Australia is that it is pretty close to how Ireland is now - large portions, loads of junk food available, but also plenty of fresh food available if you want to make that choice. However I do think it's a pity that there are so few good food shops outside of the big supermarkets - not very many good independent butchers, almost no bakeries (except from Brumbies which seems to sell very unhealthy stuff mostly), very few specialist delis. I think that's the main difference between Australia/America etc and France & Italy for example - even small towns in France and Italy will often support at least one good bakery, a number of butchers, some good specialist providers. Makes a pretty big difference to how you eat!

 

[sanj]

I would say that my experience of Australia is that it is pretty close to how Ireland is now - large portions, loads of junk food available, but also plenty of fresh food available if you want to make that choice. However I do think it's a pity that there are so few good food shops outside of the big supermarkets - not very many good independent butchers, almost no bakeries (except from Brumbies which seems to sell very unhealthy stuff mostly), very few specialist delis. I think that's the main difference between Australia/America etc and France & Italy for example - even small towns in France and Italy will often support at least one good bakery, a number of butchers, some good specialist providers. Makes a pretty big difference to how you eat!

Good post Maggie.

Re the above paragraph though i do disagree.

There are some excellent butchers in perth and the number of quality bakeries has increased a fair bit in the last few years. what area do you live in?