Warning; Investors Club
- Thread starter BayView
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To me the answer is an obvious "yes" boods - clubs are by implication not for profit while businesses are for profit.
In the case of AFL clubs there is a mix of public, private and not for profit ownership as per here
In the case of the RACs there is also a mix of "for profit" and "not for profit" as per this article
It seems obvious to me that if a genuine not for profit club becomes publicly or privately owned it should cease to call itself a club. I bet there are a number of members of some motoring "clubs" who would be unpleasantly surprised about the true ownership of their "club".
I can see why this may be difficult in the AFL context but really all of these businesses should at least be far more transparent about their ownership structure than they are - you really have to go digging for it. In TICs case there is no excuse for it.
I tried to ring the queensland general office number today to ask them some questions - it rang out...
not impressed!!
not impressed!!
Perhaps it's in this fourth sense of the word that they named TIC?
"The Investors Club" you with camaraderie then try and sell you over-priced property?
Link to the aforementioned post from the article in the Sunday Times
ON THE MONEY - Sunday Times Perth - 16 August 2009.
As far as a club goes; getting clients/members/prospects involved in things such as the below seems "clubby"?
- Melbourne Cup 2010 -TIC Marque
- PMC 6th Annual International Workshop - Vanuatu
- Broome to Darwin cruise
- Annual Conferences & Workshops
- Greek Islands cruise
I was out shopping yesterday with my daughter in Best & Less and I was surprised at the amount of football club gear for sale eg. boys PJ's etc, men's Tshirts - who get to share in the profit from these sales?
Is it the club, the current players, the board & executive or the supporters of the club exactly where does the profit go? To the grounds maintenance.
This seems to me to be big business
"The Investors Club" you with camaraderie then try and sell you over-priced property?
Is the TIC some type of pyramid scheme?? They have support members - do these support members receive some kind of financial incentive if they bring people into the club who then go on to buy club properties from their developers?
Regards Jason.
It's a pyramid scheme in the same sense that any organisation that sells stuff and pays its salespeople commission is a pyramid scheme.
Sounds a lot like the club "benefits" bestowed on Storm Financial club members/clients.
I think it depends on whether the punter is encouraged to become a 'support member' or whether they're just there to have overpriced properties flogged at them. If the latter, no it's not pyramid.
Eg Harvey Norman or Crazy Johns salespeople might get commissions but they just want you to buy, not to join them. And if you do buy they get more commissions but don't move up any hierachy. If they sell 1 x TV they get commission on 1 x TV, If they sell 2 they get commission on 2 x TV etc, ie an arithmetic progression (ie adding).
Whereas my understanding is that pyramid schemes are about recruiting people (and motivating those below you to recruit) more than selling actual products (although that needs to happen as well). So that as you move up the tree, your commissions increase by a geometric progression, ie exponentially (ie 2 people below you, then 2 people below each of them, 2 people below each of them, so commissions from 14 people - hence multiplying by larger factors each time).
I'd bet that MLM or pyramid books go on all about these exponential returns, compounding, and then passive income as the pyramids below you build themselves!
If they sell enough they move up to become more senior salespeople, who lead teams and presumably get a bigger cut? i.e. they get a bonus based on what their teams sell?
And as you progress through any organisation, you are in effect making more and more money from the work of the people below you. I would view this as a pyramid STRUCTURE, which pretty much every organisation (schools, businesses, religions, governments) has. A pyramid SCHEME is usually analogous to a ponzi scheme, which is very different.
My view is that the investors club is a sales organisation, not unlike a real estate agent.
I'm not sure if they do. As they move up they become more a manager of teams/people rather than dealing with the customers.
From my own experience in retail, the managers worked longer than us and I don't think their effectively hourly rate would have been any better. In my view wanting to be manager was stupid, though some people wanted it, if only to make themselves more marketable for more lucrative jobs elsewhere (or they had the illusion that being manager conferred more power, which I don't think is the case - ie they're just answering to more senior people).
In some organisations/hierachies the people with specialist expertise sometimes earned more than the people at the top. Eg senior public servants brought in on contract might earn more than the premier.
the best example of of a "pyramid" structure in business is the normal CEO rakes in busloads, even if a bunch of underlings did all the work.
In a properly constructed MLM structure its possible for the underlings to make 10x the CEOs income.
So which is the pyramid again ?
ta'rolf
In a properly constructed MLM structure its possible for the underlings to make 10x the CEOs income.
So which is the pyramid again ?
ta'rolf
Not quite. In the case of TIC members wishing to attend any of these events, they need to pay for the privilege the same as any other person, these are not freebies, a la Storm.
They often offer members the chance to gain more knowledge, mingle with like minded people, travel in style and in some cases have some or all of the expenses able to be claimed as a tax deduction.
And the answer to the question of whether TIC is a pyramid organisation, the answer is a definite 'No'. We do not actively seek others to become support members. There is no monetary benefit to me in having one of my members becoming a support member.
At that level of business you don't get paid for 'work'. You get paid for enterprise and risk. Pretty obvious stuff to me.
exactly - that's why the guy with the big hat gets paid so much money - he was the one that set the company up. then as the sales people go lower in rank so do their comms. TIC charges such high comms that there is plenty to go around.
I think the likes of sale people from say LJ Hookers may be less biased in their sales advice than a TIC member as their commissions are lower, hence they woul dbe less hungry to seal the deal?
from their own website...
"Q2. What does the Club get out of this?
Answer: The maximum Club fee is 6% of the purchase price + GST. This fee is paid by the vendor and not you. The bulk of these funds is used to provide the extensive support to Club members. We negotiate with the sellers to ensure the property price will provide market, or better-than-market price, and rental return"
ouch... 6.6%! The best thing they oculd do for the member is to drop their commission to 1.1% and give the poor investor a 5.5% discount... they can buy their own t-shirt and trip to bali from that
"Q2. What does the Club get out of this?
Answer: The maximum Club fee is 6% of the purchase price + GST. This fee is paid by the vendor and not you. The bulk of these funds is used to provide the extensive support to Club members. We negotiate with the sellers to ensure the property price will provide market, or better-than-market price, and rental return"
ouch... 6.6%! The best thing they oculd do for the member is to drop their commission to 1.1% and give the poor investor a 5.5% discount... they can buy their own t-shirt and trip to bali from that
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