Warning; Investors Club

[TurkeyBaster]

That is a very well reasoned post, Spiderman, and I'd have to say that I can't really disagree with anything that you say.

I can really only speak for myself here and say that as a consumer of their product/services for several years and now as a provider of those to others, I can't say that I ever thought deeply about the name and it's connotations and the effect that it may have on others.

I don't think I personally ever thought that it was anything other than an organisation that makes it easy for some people to buy IP's. I don't think my natural caution or powers of reasoning were influenced in any way by the name either.

I always knew that money changed hands and I make that quite clear to my members now.

I agree that we are a business (quite a successful one, too, I think) and I would suspect that part of that success comes from our members having a positive experience with the club when they purchase something. Proof of that is in having a good percentage, like me, coming back for more. (brainwashed, possibly, Tracey)
The "informality, conviviality, mateship" that you mention, is probably part of it. I don't think that this is necessarily a bad thing as long, as you say, that it doesn't "encourage a suspension of critical faculty".

This comes down, I believe, to the personal ethics of the individuals involved. As it does in any business. I'm therefore not entirely convinced by your arguments that TIC needs to, or should, change it's name. In hindsight, it may well have been better if another name had been used, but I think at the time that the club evolved, over 15 years ago, that was exactly what it was and as you have described. It may well have changed and evolved over the years into something very different in terms of professionalism and business practices, but I think the name still describes the product and the common interests of prospective purchasers and support members (who have all already bought IP's through TIC), quite well.

 

[Wolfgang]

Another Satisfied TIC Customer

I began my investment life via Jan Somers and her books.
Later I discovered TIC.
I have benefited immensely from both organisations.

Poor old Turkey Baster has been doing a great job fielding questions and defending his club here.

I've been watching this thread for a few months and finally decided to post.

Firstly, let me say that discussions like this exist so that a variety of views can be expressed; that's good.

What really irks me however is this race to smash things up. Some people are driven by negativity; they see something that works for many thousands of people and have to race in to break it.

Disclosure first. I am a TIC member and have been for 6 years.
I have purchased 5 properties in that time.
I have made no money from TIC except on my properties.

OK so my bias is now on the record.

Do I have problems with TIC calling itself a CLUB? Not at all. When it was set up in 1994 by Kevin Young and a few of his mates, it was precisely that.

It has grown over the years and strictly speaking is no longer a Club in the same sense, but for me, it is very much a club in that the members support me (and I support others) the best we can.

As an Aussie based overseas, the support I get from the club is worth its weight in gold. I just couldn't confidently invest if I didn't have trust and faith in the club personal from Branch Manager to broker and so on.

Many people like to do it all alone; good on you.

Many of us do not; we need a hand to hold and to be guided.

Do I begrudge the Club earning money from the vendor? No.
Interestingly, we all understand that an estate agent makes money from any property deal and yet some of us have problems with TIC making money on transactions. Why the difference?

Does my Support member make money when I buy a property? Yes of course he does and considering all of the work he does from setting up the communications with my broker, building inspectors, pest inspectors and legal people, he deserves every penny. This saves me from all the trouble of trying to do it from a land not blessed in communication technology.

TIC is not for every one obviously, but for thousand s of investors it has been and continues to be a life-changer.

As for Mr Jenman, well, like most posters here, he won't hear anything positive about TIC and wants to hear only the negative. No point in even trying to talk to him ....I know....I have tried.

I'm happy with my lot in TIC and so are thousands of other people.

May I courteously suggest that those destructive, negative souls haunting this thread to move on over to the property crash blog where you can all wallow in misery together?

 

[BoatBoy]

I began my investment life via Jan Somers and her books.
Later I discovered TIC.
I have benefited immensely from both organisations.

Poor old Turkey Baster has been doing a great job fielding questions and defending his club here.

Your taking the pi55 right?

You and Turkey Baster come on here and your first posts are spruiking for TIC.

May I courteously suggest that those destructive, negative souls haunting this thread to move on over to the property crash blog where you can all wallow in misery together?

Mate, the majority of the posters on this thread are PRO property , so no need for you to suggest that we should be on a property crash blog.

Just because we feel that TIC are just an overpriced ba5tardisation of a real estate agency, that doesn't have to adhere to the same guidelines that a traditional REA does, doesn't mean we are destructive negative souls that should be elsewhere.

What it does mean is that we are people that do a bit of DD on what is available out there and hunt out the deals ourselves for less cost, therefore increasing yeild and don't necessarily believe the sunshine and lollipops hype that TIC dishes out.

Dave

 

[tubs]

Why does it seem like there is only one 'accepted mantra' around here when it comes to investing in property.

It seems like you're welcome here as long as you read the Jan Somers books, do your own research and buy your own properties.

If you dare do it differently then you almost seem unwelcome.

We've got people here who are sticking up for TIC. If you dont want to join then dont. Nobody's asking you to. But perhaps we might all learn something from these people. They seem to be correcting some myths about TIC, and I would have thought that drawing all the information together in this forum would be beneficial to everyone.

And if it works for them, why dont we pat them on the back for having found something that's making them money.

Unfortunately it seems that if you dont invest the 'Somersoft way' then you should either keep your mouth shut or go away.

And before you ask I am NOT a member of TIC.

 

[BoatBoy]

And before you ask I am NOT a member of TIC.

And I havent read Jan Somers books

Dave

 

[boomtown]

It seems like you're welcome here as long as you read the Jan Somers books, do your own research and buy your own properties.

If you dare do it differently then you almost seem unwelcome.

You mean to say if you are an intellectually lazy and not prepared to put in any hard yards on what will be one of the biggest purchase of your life then yes - I dont feel particularly kindly towards you.

 

[tubs]

No, what I'm saying is that this forum should welcome all the points of view and anyone coming here with knowledge and experience on the topic should be encouraged to add it to the 'collective mix'.

Threads like this seem to send the message that you can only take part in the discussion if you agree with everyone else.

 

[BoatBoy]

No, what I'm saying is that this forum should welcome all the points of view and anyone coming here with knowledge and experience on the topic should be encouraged to add it to the 'collective mix'.

Thats fine, but I get the feeling that these posts are more a why we should use TIC over LJ Hooker

This message is brought to you by TIC

Threads like this seem to send the message that you can only take part in the discussion if you agree with everyone else.

The simple fact that this thread has been on here for 7 months over 6 pages and 87 posts without being deleted is proof that this is not the case.

Dave

 

[Wolfgang]

Your taking the pi55 right?
You and Turkey Baster come on here and your first posts are spruiking for TIC.
Dave

I admire Turkey Baster for entering the lion's den to support his beliefs.
So no, Boatboy, I'm not taking the pi55 as you suggest.

It does seem that for a pro property investment discussion board, this place is not too welcoming or democratic for that matter.

To suggest that TIC members are lazy or too lazy to do their due diligence is ridiculous and plain dumb.

I read everything I can get my hands on regarding property. I subscribe to numerous mags and web sites and like every other TIC member I've ever met, I scoure realestate.com.au and other places checking prices and trends.

When I see a property I like on the TIC website, I check these sites again to see that I'm getting a fair deal.

I thought I'd expained my motivation for finally posting here too; it was to try to correct the imbalance.

TIC spruiker? Well I am a very satisfied investor and am happy with my TIC buys so if that makes me a spruiker so be it.

TIC is not for everybody and there are countless ways to invest in property; I'm not so arrogant as to suggest that my way is best or that your way is inferior.

 

[Dazz]

I can only presume after 90 odd posts, no matter what people write that ;

(a) the people who dislike TIC's methods aren't about to change their position, and

(b) the people who think TIC are just tickety-boo aren't about to change their position.

 

[BoatBoy]

TIC is not for everybody and there are countless ways to invest in property; I'm not so arrogant as to suggest that my way is best or that your way is inferior.

Nor was I so arrogant as to suggest that my way is best and that TIC is inferior.

But lets be fair here, is TIC really any more than an expensive real estate agency that doesn't have to abide by the same guidelines as other REA's as set out by the REI in that state?

What would people think if for example, LJ Hooker ran "Club" evenings where they got a pile of prospects in one room and then surrounded them with tame mortgage brokers, accountants, building inspection people and some clients that were getting kickback on sales, giving positive re-enforcement and warm and fuzzy feelings to those prospects, that LJH was the way to financial security?

(Images of bunched up baitfish and dark shapes circling in the outer spring to mind)



Dave

 

[BoatBoy]

I can only presume after 90 odd posts, no matter what people write that ;

(a) the people who dislike TIC's methods aren't about to change their position, and

(b) the people who think TIC are just tickety-boo aren't about to change their position.

You got it in 1

 

[The Y-man]

I can only presume after 90 odd posts, no matter what people write that ;

(a) the people who dislike TIC's methods aren't about to change their position, and

(b) the people who think TIC are just tickety-boo aren't about to change their position.

Very well put - and for that reason, I am on the verge of locking this thread (unless someone else beats me to it) unless someone can add a (vastly) new perspective to this.

Cheers,

The Y-man

 

[Wolfgang]

What?

Some people like to dish it up but get cold feet when they are challenged it seems.

So we get five pages of anti TIC bile, inaccuracies and brazen arrogance, then a few pro TIC people write in and all of a sudden the censors want to lock the thread.

Freedom of speech sure has slipped in Oz.

May I suggest a different idea?
Leave the thread alone and let the people vote with their feet.

 

[boomtown]

I find it remarkably coincidental that TIC's defenders are all first time posters.

 

[nonrecourse]

Investors club evolution

Very well put - and for that reason, I am on the verge of locking this thread (unless someone else beats me to it) unless someone can add a (vastly) new perspective to this.

Cheers,

The Y-man

Well here is my perspective on TIC. Way back in 1994/5? I went to a property expose' at Jeff's shed (Melbourne) and one of the stands was the then small Queensland based investors club. Can't remember if when I signed up for their newsletters I paid $50 or it was free. As con the fruitier says "doesn't matta".

I have enjoyed receiving their newsletters and have observed them from afar for many years (coming up to 15 years) At that stage we already had a library of property books including Jan Somers and had started our property journey by setting up a Discretionary and 1 Unit Trust.

What I liked about the free newsletters was the variety of topics covered. The wife started reading them and in the first 3 years I think we went to about one free information night once a year. We never purchased a property through them because at that stage they were Queensland based and we prefer to keep a close watch on our investments as we trust no one full stop.

I do remember at one stage the investors club were taken to task by ASIC because of their no tenant no worries mate insurance policy upset so many of the big property insurance groups. ASIC approached over 3000 members who had this insurance policy trolling for complaints.... They got 0 complaints, yep nada not one!!! so ASIC slapped TIC and kevin on the wrist for not providing a disclosure statement.

My wife's observation of the group (she is my bs meter) is that it really is geared to mum and pop first time investors who do not have the desire or the ability initially and want someone to hold their hand.

They have a product to sell and like all good product sellers they get a lot of tyre kickers (us included

On a negative note in the last few years we note probably because of the rising costs associated with getting into property investing they have moved away from freehold and small strata developments into larger strata and their developments tend to be on the fringes of developed areas.

 

[BoatBoy]

inaccuracies

Where? Point them out please

Dave

 

[yadreamin]

On a negative note in the last few years we note probably because of the rising costs associated with getting into property investing they have moved away from freehold and small strata developments into larger strata and their developments tend to be on the fringes of developed areas.

I wonder who is behind the company or companies that build these larger strata developments on the fringe areas that have such a large and williing pool of buyers without having to bother with price negotiation l believe the term is "expression of interest"[EOI]

I too enjoyed their news letters for years, l had to move a couple of times to stop them though
cheers yadreamin

 

[The Y-man]

So we get five pages of anti TIC bile, inaccuracies and brazen arrogance, then a few pro TIC people write in and all of a sudden the censors want to lock the thread.

Then you will be surprised that I am not wishing to lock it down due to the pro-TIC posts; conversely, I am finding some of the anti-TIC posts getting a bit "unruly", but just can't be bothered going through and "sanitising" all of them.....

Cheers,

The Y-man

 

[Ausprop]

And before you ask I am NOT a member of TIC.

you can't become a member because it is not a club.

You can be a customer of the club, just as you can be a customer of LJ Hookers, however customers of hookers have significant protection by law and voluntary codes of conduct regarding real estate.