Wear and Tear vs. tenants to pay

[MelbGal]

Hi everyone,

Is it just me or do property managers tend to class everything as wear and tear?

There are a couple of items I was happy to repair myself but then I was thinking, hang on isn't some of this the tenants fault. My PM doesn't really think this is anything we could chase the tenants on, as VCAT would just class as wear and tear. I think she could be right.

Laundry spout is pulled away from the wall - handyman says probably someone leant, stood on it so it has pulled away the whole fixture behind the stud wall. this can't be fixed without pulling away the tiles, plaster and fixing behind. Alternative is to leave as is and just caulk around the gap but then it's not a proper fix. PM thinks we wont be able to get tenants to pay (would just be classed wear and tear), handyman thinks it is not wear and tear and should pursue tenants. What do you think?

Water damage behind tiles in the bathroom resulting in drummy tiles and damage to wall and doorframe. Maybe some damage could have been prevented if we had known that water was getting behind the tiles. Any fault here of the tenant (not reporting maintenance) or should we PM/LL known to have maintained the grout regularly. Cost ~$2.5K.

Would appreciate your advice and suggestions of your past experience and what you would do in my situation.

 

[Propertunity]

My 2c:

Laundry spout puled away - tenant.
Drummy tiles / water damage not reported - LL (can't expect tenant to have any clue about mtce issues).

 

[MelbGal]

My 2c:

Laundry spout puled away - tenant.
Drummy tiles / water damage not reported - LL (can't expect tenant to have any clue about mtce issues).

Thanks - what I was thinking too.

 

[Ideo]

My 2c:

Laundry spout puled away - tenant.
Drummy tiles / water damage not reported - LL (can't expect tenant to have any clue about mtce issues).

I'll add my 2c to that to make it 4c.

That's my view as well.

 

[Jen_PFR]

I'll add my 2c to that to make it 4c.

That's my view as well.

Plus my 2 cents' worth as well..... current grand total: 6 cents

 

[The Fence]

My 2c plus I'll donate another 2c

Makes 10cents!

 

[MelbGal]

keep the 2c coming, soon I will have enough to pay for my maintenance - hehe

 

[Nikki8]

You have my 2c hehe... Lets hope we can pull enough to get your maintenance done
I would be inclined to get the tradie to give you a report stating that the laundry spout is impossible to have happened without extremely hard force intentially and cannot be caused by the 'use' of it just to cover you if your tenant were to take it further when it comes to recouping the finds to repair it

keep the 2c coming, soon I will have enough to pay for my maintenance - hehe

 

[Lil Skater]

16c - getting close!

Although as someone who's seen many stupid VCAT rulings go through, I'd be interested to see how it turns out.

As suggested, get your tradie to write a report stating that it's not fair wear and tear. If possible, two different plumbers.

 

[MelbGal]

You have my 2c hehe... Lets hope we can pull enough to get your maintenance done
I would be inclined to get the tradie to give you a report stating that the laundry spout is impossible to have happened without extremely hard force intentially and cannot be caused by the 'use' of it just to cover you if your tenant were to take it further when it comes to recouping the finds to repair it

Good suggestion..

 

[MelbGal]

16c - getting close!

Although as someone who's seen many stupid VCAT rulings go through, I'd be interested to see how it turns out.

As suggested, get your tradie to write a report stating that it's not fair wear and tear. If possible, two different plumbers.

Ideally would like to avoid vcat and just get tenant to contribute to repair. Fixing the laundry tap properly could cost several hundred.

 

[MelbGal]

Ok I have another question for you all..... The bathroom works will mean that the shower/bath will be out of action for up to 5 days.

Tenants will want some compensation (rent relief) because they can't shower. What amount do you think is reasonable per day?

Thanks

 

[Ed Barton]

Ok I have another question for you all..... The bathroom works will mean that the shower/bath will be out of action for up to 5 days.

Tenants will want some compensation (rent relief) because they can't shower. What amount do you think is reasonable per day?

Thanks

One can of extra strength deodorant per person per week?

This is a difficult one as the tenant gets no benefit from the works to the bathroom. If you were disrupting their lives by putting in a new kitchen or carpet then they are more likely to put up with it as they get new stuff.

I'd ask your PM, but yours sounds useless.

I wouldn't be offering anything up front, but asking them what they need. "The bathroom needs repairs to stop the leaks and you won't be able to use it for 5 days. Is there anything we can do to make this less disruptive?"

You'll get a response ranging from 'nothing' to 'we'll need a week in the presidential suite at the hilton'.

 

[Lil Skater]

Hmm, bathroom's are always a hard one.

I'd first ask if there's a family member, or friend locally that would be happy to let them borrow their bathroom (or house them).

Although, I'd be prepared for worst case scenario - A hotel stay. Check to see if it is covered by your insurance.

Personally, with a young family, I don't want to pack up the car with all our shower stuff and impose on someone else for almost a week morning and night, nor stay at someone else's place for that time - but I don't have family close by and most of friends live at home with their parents.

 

[MelbGal]

My PM said not to offer any compo unless they asked, well they did so we are waiting to see what they say. Not going to propose an amoint in case its more than what they want.

PM suggested they may ask for reduction in rent (half rent) during the 5 days disrupted or we could agree to $0 but then they could take to vcat and get more. Waiting to hear from tenants to determine materiality.

Unsure what to make of PM yet, she is new and has been 100x better than the last few.

 

[DaveM]

I will start a kickstarter campaign to raise a total of 200,000 cents in 2c increments to pay for the repair to the tap

 

[Plumber]

Hi everyone,

handyman says probably someone leant, stood on it so it has pulled away the whole fixture behind the stud wall. .

Stood on a laundry spout ? I've never heard of this type of damage before LOL !

 

[MelbGal]

Quick update is that I spoke to my pm about the taps and the tenants are disputing that they caused it.

The PM is saying that she doesn't think the tenant is responsible - this is despite her tradesman saying it doesn't seem to be wear and tear. So she wants another tradesman to look at it.

I'm starting to wonder whether she works for me or the tenants because she is not listening to me or the tradesman.

I'm still going to insist that she gets a quote and once we know the cost discuss with the tenants. I'm getting close to sacking my PM mainly because she didnt pick up the damage in her last inspection and she is making recommendations when she hasn't even seen the damage herself - I sent her photos and immediately her response was its wear and tear.

What would you do in this situation?

 

[Lil Skater]

Hmm, I'd believe the tradie above anyone! I'd also like to know with such a large maintenance issue why the PM hasn't been there?

I'd be asking PM if there are any photos of the laundry prior to the tenant taking occupancy, if there is and it shows no damage then clearly it was this tenant that caused it as taps don't pull themselves out of the wall!!

If there isn't photos then it's hard to prove that the tenant did it (even if there was no previous tenancies and you know it wasn't like that when they moved in.) as VCAT loves photos and I've seen many instances where the condition report is no longer the only proof of state of repair, they want photos too.

 

[MelbGal]

Hmm, I'd believe the tradie above anyone! I'd also like to know with such a large maintenance issue why the PM hasn't been there?

I'd be asking PM if there are any photos of the laundry prior to the tenant taking occupancy, if there is and it shows no damage then clearly it was this tenant that caused it as taps don't pull themselves out of the wall!!

If there isn't photos then it's hard to prove that the tenant did it (even if there was no previous tenancies and you know it wasn't like that when they moved in.) as VCAT loves photos and I've seen many instances where the condition report is no longer the only proof of state of repair, they want photos too.

Thanks for your comments Lil Skater.

Unfortunately I don't think there are any photos, as this was previously managed by another agency and back then ~6 years ago I don't think they took photos, but I will ask

I agree regarding your first point about why has the PM not been there for such a large maintenance issue. I will ask her if she plans to inspect once works are completed this week. I know she planned to go and update the condition report. I will ask to go along.

The funny thing is that the $ are not really the concern for me, the issue is the communication with the PM on this matter which leaves me frustrated and annoyed.