Welcome Nathan Burgess

[Paul@PFI]

Welcome - ATO Friends

I have posted previously about the role our Government Regulators take in monitoring aspects of our taxation, investment and other markets...

In Feb 2014 Mr Nathan Burgess, ATO Director of SMSF Regulatory and income tax products spoke at a Super Symposium regarding Financial Advice.

He said "We're paying a lot ore attention to seminars, conferences - even what people are posting in bulletin boards".

Welcome Nathan. I trust Nathan will find that the shared discussions on SS are a strong reflection of the views of practitioners in their various products & areas of specialisation and knowledge (AFSL services, Mortgages, Tax, Accounting and other SMSF services) and the many and varied enquiries from investors interested in learning more.

Nathan pointed out "we have noticed in these forums that while most people get it right sometimes there is misinformation and were starting to think we should play a role in there".

I'm wondering and interested in views of moderators and all on SS
Q : Should posters who hold qualifications in an area be Required to show this or at least have the ability to do so ?? Might it assist users knowing who is qualified and the type of qualification ?
Q : Without it bcoming a marketing exercise, how would this information be minimised so that it remains relevant but does not dominate ?
Q : How can we avoid a poster from having a "CV" of specialisations and skills like LinkedIn ?

My views :
- The "signature" on professional posters should be allowed to include a BRIEF indicator of each area of professional skill and qualification.
- An alternative might be to have a "professional poster" indicator (ie a gold star?) and improved details about the actual identity of the poster available on their profile....This may assist to ensure the quality of SS "guidance" is of the highest standard without restricting others users participation.
- A professional poster should be allowed to include their first & last name and a contact phone number and homepage hyperlink for their professional business. NO mobile numbers.
- No email addresses
This may greatly assist users to discern posts which come from persons not qualified to give guidance eg : Financial, Tax, legal etc.

Love you to share your thoughts too

 

[Peter_Tersteeg]

He said "We're paying a lot ore attention to seminars, conferences - even what people are posting in bulletin boards".

I for one would welcome the ATO to give input to the forum. As has been mentioned, there's a lot of good and reasonable information posted here and elsewhere, but it's not always 100% accurate. A lot of the information given has worked for some people, some advice followed badly or under different circumstances can be a disaster. A contribution from the ATO would be in everyones interest and is most welcome indeed.

No problem at all with people representing businesses to be required to include the basics such as their license, but to list every degree and qualification in a long list of letters quite frankly is a bit of a w@&k. I have an Australian Credit License and I'm happy to quote the number, but do you really need to know about all the other qualifications I've got which everyone in my industry is required to have anyway? I've also got a bunch of other degrees, diplomas and Cert IVs. Does anyone care that I can perform first aid?

I don't know that giving someone a gold star for being a professional is really necessary - let peoples posts speak for themselves. This might detract from some of the contributions of very experienced people.

 

[tobe]

my view? We have a system that seperates the wheat from the chaff, Kudos.

Perhaps it should be more prominately explained/displayed so new members understand what it means?

I dont think professional qualifications displayed add anything. There are lots of members here who know more about specific topics related to property investment than those with qualifications in the same (broad) field.

whats to stop a new member putting up BS qualifications and misleading someone? Without major time and effort by the moderators?

In the end its an internet forum. The best qualification is that related to the internet forum itself.

 

[Dazz]

Love you to share your thoughts too

• Frank Packer
• Kerry Packer
• Alan Bond
• Lindsay Fox
• Robert Holmes a Court
• Len Buckeridge
• Frank Lowy
• Gina Rinehart
• Kerry Stokes

All of these people have amassed fortunes more than a Billion Dollars and I'd reckon you'd be scratching to find anything more than a standard Yr 12 certificate, if you're lucky !!

......and those are just a few of the Australians, without starting on the US and UK self made titans.

The prized CV that almost everyone covets with a long list of qualifications rarely gets you into the big league.

True, qualifications certainly have the ability to elevate you from the ordinary into the also-rans, but that's about it.

Have never met anyone from the ATO (and I've met a few) with anything substantial. The wealthiest owned his own home and a few shares. Come to think of it, you could also lump all of the Bankers in with that lot.

They might be excellent for clarifying the rules, but aren't much chop themselves in applying that knowledge. They tend to be extremely risk adverse, with a 'can't do attitude' and continually get lost in the "what-if" loops which cripple any action.

 

[tobe]

NB, I wouldnt mind a net worth qualification at the bottom of everyones post, but I think thats also got some issues.....

 

[D.T.]

NB, I wouldnt mind a net worth qualification at the bottom of everyones post, but I think thats also got some issues.....

Doesnt the quality of posts speak for themselves?

 

[tobe]

maybe, how do you know if you dont the posters net worth?

 

[Paul@PFI]

I for one would welcome the ATO to give input to the forum. .... A contribution from the ATO would be in everyones interest and is most welcome indeed.

The reality is ATO wont do that. It will be misconstrued or conflict with the "official" views by a minor word difference for example. The ATO's regulatory position for SMSFs is that it there only to regulate SMSFs but it doesnt create the regulatory framework - Thats for Treasury. And the SMSF regime is one of regulation by error or exception. So they see themselves as a passive overseer until a problem comes up. They leave other issues to ASIC. eg : Unlicensed property spruikers marketing to SMSFs. ATO doesnt have all the answers. eg : SMSFs have no regulatory protection unlike APRA funds.

Also one tax person may be expert in issues of policy, another compliance and another a SMSF expert. Usually issues cross departments. To post on SS would take a committee decision. And take months. They struggle to issue simple rulings in the 28 day period. Even a simple SMSFR request can get a "no position" response rather than a Yes or No answer. A post on SS isnt a "public ruling" so it wouldnt mean much.

This issue merely highlights the information gathering and intelligence role of ATO in identifying changes and issues that arise from time to time. They often dont have the answers either ! But if they see something wrong they may identify an issue that needs action...Often see this in form of a "taxpayer alert" for example. So rather than guide ATO just gets its stick out when they see a problem. Otherwise its a "neither seen or heard" position.

The ATO has changed its consultative process of late and disbanded a number of technical sub-committees which included panels of industry experts. ie Superannuation sub committe folded. I'm concerned that was a great forum for industry types to ask for official positions. They didnt always answer all questions but some good discussions too place.

The issue of the ATO person and their wealth etc isnt the issue. Good and bad investment decisions arent what their role is about. Their monitoring of forums is to identify problem areas and emerging schemes etc. Intelligence gathering. Just as I wouldnt expect ASIO or Federal Police to publically post to a website like silk road (drugs etc)

 

[Dazz]

The issue of the ATO person and their wealth etc isnt the issue. Good and bad investment decisions arent what their role is about. Their monitoring of forums is to identify problem areas and emerging schemes etc. Intelligence gathering.

Not from their perspective no. But that's not why the Somers set this forum up.....such that the ATO could gather intelligence and monitor trends to use against investors.

Looks like their objectives then are almost at loggerheads with what folks come onto the forum for.

Umpires, not players.

If you asked the majority of noobs why they frequent Somersoft, I'm sure somewhere in their list of reasons why they look at the forum, creating wealth legally and safely through property investment might be amongst them.

Give me 1 hour with Kerry Stokes face to face, rather than a weblink to 100,000 pages of ATO website that is peppered with words like (may / could / perhaps / need to seek professional advice / cannot confirm / dependant upon).....and 57 other grey expressions that leave the investor trying to increase their wealth and cashflows on wobbly ground.

If all they are after is monitoring trends and intelligence gathering, but are not authorised to comment at all.....then I don't see how that could possibly assist budding property investors who frequent this forum to.....invest.

 

[Aaron_C]

I don't see how a contest with who has the biggest list of degrees is going to somehow help anyone make a better decision.

 

[Player]

I don't see how a contest with who has the biggest list of degrees is going to somehow help anyone make a better decision.

Agree.

Brilliance and success is not a diploma or degree.

 

[Peter_Tersteeg]

I don't see how a contest with who has the biggest list of degrees is going to somehow help anyone make a better decision.

Absolutely. You could even argue that too much formal education gets in the way of creative thinking.

 

[underdev]

Absolutely. You could even argue that too much formal education gets in the way of creative thinking.

I was smarter before i went to uni to get grey hair and my degree. I'm sure of it

 

[dan c]

This may greatly assist users to discern posts which come from persons not qualified to give guidance eg : Financial, Tax, legal etc.

This is what Paul's post is about, helping people discern who is qualified and who isn't, to give tax, financial or mortgage advice. It isn't a doodle swinging contest to see who has more degrees.

Some around here are a bit quick to jump on the defensive.

It can only help the forum if people qualified in tax matters are answering tax questions. And if that person wants to identify themselves as such, all the better.

 

[TMNT]

im curious

if a ATO rep comes onto the forum, gives out wrong info,

ie you can claim this for that, (lets assume its significant say $10k)

and then you get audited years down the track,

who is liable?

 

[dan c]

I don't see how a contest with who has the biggest list of degrees is going to somehow help anyone make a better decision.

You have your details on your signature, which tells people that you have experience in loans / financial arrangements. It lets them know that someone who knows his stuff is answering their question.

It lets the poster know that the person answering the question has some experience / qualifications to answer the question.

Doesn't seem to be a bad thing.

 

[dan c]

If you asked the majority of noobs why they frequent Somersoft, I'm sure somewhere in their list of reasons why they look at the forum, creating wealth legally and safely through property investment might be amongst them.

Sure, but people also come here to ask tax / legal / financing questions. If those questions were answered by a professional with qualifications and experience in that particular field, then surely that's a good thing.

Many accountants and mortgage brokers here already post their business details in their signature.

 

[Rob G.]

im curious

if a ATO rep comes onto the forum, gives out wrong info,

ie you can claim this for that, (lets assume its significant say $10k)

and then you get audited years down the track,

who is liable?

That is exactly why they cannot post.

Apply for an oral or private ruling if you want certainty ... or at least a level of protection for 4 years.

Posting with "ATO credentials" is tantamount to a public document by the ATO.

Anyway, speaking as someone who is prone to 'analysis paralysis', I totally agree with Dazz.

 

[Dazz]

a contest with who has the biggest list of degrees

.....which, in any case, is not worth having a contest over, cos our very own Terryw would immediately rise to the top and never possibly be challenged.

The bloke literally has a degree in everything and is qualified in everything.

It would be a far shorter list to detail what Terryw isn't qualified in.

 

[Aaron_C]

It lets the poster know that the person answering the question has some experience / qualifications to answer the question.

Yes but that's different to listing my qualifications. I could always do that but it's a bit pretentious seeing as my law degree has nothing to do with my work?