What access does a tenant have to give when the property is for sale

[lissie]

Hi,
Here is the situation we are renting in Perth, its a 2-bed unit that we have a fixed term lease until 22Mar. The property is furnished and is about to go on the market. The landlord I have a good relationship with but I don't know the agent.
My understanding in NZ is that the tenant only has to grant reasonable access - I am thinking we would agree to an 1hr open home on Saturday and maybe 2 other times during the week for private groups so long as she rings prior? Is that reasonable - I work from home so its a bit of pain really.

Also I am not the world's best house keeper - the place is not hugely un-tidy or dirty but often there is a pile of laundry in the bathroom, newspapers on the table and washing up in the sink - is that reasonable? I don't see why I should have to continually tidy for someone else's standards!
As I said we don't have a problem yet but I thought I would just check my rights before I meet the agent!

 

[sailor]

Hi,
Here is the situation we are renting in Perth, its a 2-bed unit that we have a fixed term lease until 22Mar. The property is furnished and is about to go on the market. The landlord I have a good relationship with but I don't know the agent.
My understanding in NZ is that the tenant only has to grant reasonable access - I am thinking we would agree to an 1hr open home on Saturday and maybe 2 other times during the week for private groups so long as she rings prior? Is that reasonable - I work from home so its a bit of pain really.

Also I am not the world's best house keeper - the place is not hugely un-tidy or dirty but often there is a pile of laundry in the bathroom, newspapers on the table and washing up in the sink - is that reasonable? I don't see why I should have to continually tidy for someone else's standards!
As I said we don't have a problem yet but I thought I would just check my rights before I meet the agent!

In Qld the agent has to give you 24 hours notice. However, as you work from home that may be inconvenient. You could always negotiate what would suit you best. I would have thought a 45 min to 1 hour open home on the weekend would be about the norm.

If there is only one window of viewing a week, then tis not like you have to keep tidying up all the time, and would give you a chance for a quick tidy and fix the dishes for "viewers" weekly. Once a week might suit you best.

Some owners give a discount on the rent when their tenants have to go to this extra trouble...more negotiations for you, eh!

 

[Perp]

The access you're required to provide is usually spelt out in the lease, but as what you propose seems more than reasonable, I don't think that you and your landlord will be having any difficulties. Good on you for being so accommodating!

 

[The Y-man]

Our tenants requested (and received) a rent reduction during the sales campaign.

Cheers,

The Y-man

 

[tssk]

In NSW reasonable is up to the landlord/agent. We negotiated an OK deal.

One fixed open house for two hours every Saturday and two hours notice anytime during the week. (In practice this could be as little as 45 minutes.)

Always be open to whatever time your agent wants. Otherwise they will just let people in.

You must have the place looking like a museum. The new owners might be prospective landlords. Or they might be homeowners.

Dress up for the occassion if you must be there. Much better to be mistaken for a junior agent or a buyer than as a tenant. (You'll get nastier questions if they suss you are a tenant.)

Remove all personal photos from the walls/bookcases etc. It makes it more difficult for potential home owners. You want neat and tidy like a show room. This isn't your home anymore, you are now paying rent to be a live in housekeeper.

Buy flowers for the weekly inspection to spruce the place up.

Hide valuables away or better still send them to someone else's house for safe keeping. You will almost certainly lose a couple of things from either lifters or kids.

Be polite to the prospective buyers. If they come to the door outside of inspection hours make sure you have a supply of the agent's cards and information sheets so they can call back at another time.

If they force their way in (as one pushy family did to us) ring the agent unless you fear for your safety. They might be able to come down and show them around. Otherwise firmly but politely ask them to leave, letting them know of the next session time.

You can ask for a rent decrease but in my experience you won't get it. One place even increased our rent.

Make sure all repairs are up to date. Our landlord hadn't fixed our showerhead and we had to fix one we bought to bring the place up to scratch. After the sale we were told to leave our showerhead as it was a fixture and now legally belonged to the new owners.

Most importantly be ready to pack and move quickly. Every time a place has been sold under us we were told (or the new owners expected) to be out in 2.5 weeks. (Two weeks to pack, find a place and move, half a week to clean the place.) Make sure when you leave clean everywhere. As a tenant I can tell you that one thing noone ever cleans is the top of the kitchen cupboards. These are usually covered in 20 years of grime. It's still your job to do the cleaning previous owners and tenants have failed to do.

Do all this and you'll get good references.

 

[Perp]

Do all this and you'll get good references.

You'd get more than good references - you should get a nomination for "Tenant of the Year"! Wanna come and live in one of my properties????

 

[Strannik]

reminds me of a property i used to share with my mates for a short term until the settlement on my house

the owners have put it up for sale, and we had open house on wednesdays and saturdays i believe

one wednesday i come from work right in the middle of an open house and what do i see...

(i stayed at my gf's that night so this was a big surprise to me.

apparently boys had a big party the night before
floor was covered with empty bottles, pizza boxes, pieces of pizza stuck to the floor etc.....

i can only imagine the embarrassment of the real estate agent. i know i was embarrassed when i saw it.

On another note she probably deserved it too, as on two occasions she locked me out of the house, because after inspections she locked both locks on a front door and i only had key to one. I specifically instructed her not to lock the second lock and still she did it.

And my license was suspended so it's not like i could jump in a car and go get the keys from my mates or something.

 

[Xenia]

"reasonable access" is what is in the legislation which is hugely open to interpretation.

We usually negotiate 45 minutes per week on a Saturday afternoon with our tenants when we sell properties which has never caused a problem. Most properties sold by us were previously managed by us too so already having rapport with the tenant could make a difference!

If purchasers say they want to view the property at other times we usually say no because it is tenanted and we need to respect the tenants privacy! There has never been a problem from that end either!

 

[f4j]

The last time I was in this situation as a tennant I was in the middle of moving house.

I was moving house as the owner flatly refused to address a number of maintance issues. Such as no power after heavy rain as water was getting into the ceiling in an external laundry.

So I was pissed off.
Moreso when the agent demands to take people through the place with minimal notice shortly after.


I warned him that I was moving and the place was a mess. They ignored that and came anyway.


I had several rooms blocked off with boxes and furniture. The blinds down, the windows closed and disabled several key light bulbs.

It didn't go well.

 

[caterpillar]

Tssk, can I just say that you are either the world's nicest person/tenant, or just crazy@!

Always be open to whatever time your agent wants. Otherwise they will just let people in.

No, they won't - it's illegal!! They must give adequate notice according to state tenancy laws (generally 24hrs).

You must have the place looking like a museum. The new owners might be prospective landlords. Or they might be homeowners.

No, you don't have to! Don't be ridiculous! They know someone is living there. It's not the tenant's responsibility to "sell" the house, they are just living there. They "must" keep it however they like. They "should/could" give it a tidy up.

Dress up for the occasion if you must be there. Much better to be mistaken for a junior agent or a buyer than as a tenant. (You'll get nastier questions if they suss you are a tenant.)

A tenant does NOT have to answer questions from a prospective buyer! I certainly would NOT be dressing up in my own home.

Remove all personal photos from the walls/bookcases etc. It makes it more difficult for potential home owners. You want neat and tidy like a show room. This isn't your home anymore, you are now paying rent to be a live in housekeeper.

Ummm.. NO!!! You are paying rent to live in a home. It *is* the tenant's home as long as they live there! As if they have to remove all personal photos!!

Buy flowers for the weekly inspection to spruce the place up.

I'd only do this if the owner/agent was buying them!

If they force their way in (as one pushy family did to us) ring the agent unless you fear for your safety. They might be able to come down and show them around. Otherwise firmly but politely ask them to leave, letting them know of the next session time.

How on earth would they "force" their way in? I would call the police, not the agent!

You can ask for a rent decrease but in my experience you won't get it. One place even increased our rent.

That's odd. Every, single person I know who's had their rented home up for sale and lots of inspection got reduced rent.

Make sure all repairs are up to date. Our landlord hadn't fixed our showerhead and we had to fix one we bought to bring the place up to scratch. After the sale we were told to leave our showerhead as it was a fixture and now legally belonged to the new owners.

Nope again - it's not a fixture unless it was mentioned on the condition report at the start of the lease. For a start, I wouldn't change a showerhead for an inspection (what, are the viewers going to shower..?!). If I did, it's my property and I'd take it with me when I left if I wanted it.

Most importantly be ready to pack and move quickly. Every time a place has been sold under us we were told (or the new owners expected) to be out in 2.5 weeks. (Two weeks to pack, find a place and move, half a week to clean the place.)

They have to give the adequate legal notice. I don't know anywhere that it's 2 weeks.

Make sure when you leave clean everywhere. It's still your job to do the cleaning previous owners and tenants have failed to do.

No, it's your "job" (if you want your bond back) to clean it to the same condition it was on the condition report when you went in!

Do all this and you'll get good references.

I've not done most any of this, and always got great references.

I really don't mean to insult you, but it sounds like you've really been brainwashed and/or taken advantage of, if you genuinely think all those things are the responsibility/role of the tenant!! As a tenant, you're required to leave the condition in the same condition you took it in (minus fair wear and tear) and to pay the rent in full, on time. That's pretty much it.

 

[wylie]

Maybe I have some warped sense of humour, but I read tssk's post as purely and simply "tongue in cheek".

I assumed that the list of "how to be a good tenant and help sell the landlords house" MAY be what the owner and agent would like tenants to do, but that it was a bit of fun.

A bit like, perhaps, asking my teenagers if we could drive to Sydney with everybody humming lovely tunes and no arguments - yeah RIGHT!!

 

[kathryn d]

Maybe I have some warped sense of humour, but I read tssk's post as purely and simply "tongue in cheek".

I assumed that the list of "how to be a good tenant and help sell the landlords house" MAY be what the owner and agent would like tenants to do, but that it was a bit of fun.

A bit like, perhaps, asking my teenagers if we could drive to Sydney with everybody humming lovely tunes and no arguments - yeah RIGHT!!

Without doing a search....I vaguely remember tssk talking about this when he was going thru it.
He did more than any tenant should.I as a landlord wouldn't expect any of my tenants to do that unless they have asked to be released from their lease early.

 

[jaycee]

the owner is selling the hosue, why would / more importantly why SHOULD a tenant repair the place if the landloard didn't think was worth repairing before sale ? Especially BUYING FITTINGS for the owner - come on......

Dress up for the inspection ? I've been told it is "sugguested: ofthen for the tenant not to be there, but not to dress up.

To keep the place neat & tidy & clean obviously (even if yes, that does mean packing the laundry & newspapers for 1 day, I don't think that's unreasonable, the sort of 'tidyup' one might do if people were coming over surely is not too much to ask

 

[tssk]

Tssk, can I just say that you are either the world's nicest person/tenant, or just crazy@!

They must give adequate notice according to state tenancy laws (generally 24hrs).

One of my relatives used to be a PM. She told me if the tenants weren't at her beck and call she'd just bring people through. (Backfired on her one day when she accidently disturbed a shift worker tenant who thought she was a burglar.!)

No, you don't have to! Don't be ridiculous! They know someone is living there. It's not the tenant's responsibility to "sell" the house, they are just living there. They "must" keep it however they like. They "should/could" give it a tidy up.

Most PM's tend to look at condition as "the best face" of the tenant. If it's a bit untidy PM's will assume it's a tip when they aren't there. Also if the place is completely tidy it's easy to notice if one of your visitors has sticky fingers as you'll notice anything out of place straight away.

A tenant does NOT have to answer questions from a prospective buyer! I certainly would NOT be dressing up in my own home.

It won't stop potential buyers from asking though. And that buyer might be your next landlord. When dressed up I'd be mistaken for another buyer (and left alone) or one of the agents in which case I'd be asked about the size of the place etc.

When sussed as the tenant I'd get all sorts of questions from the polite ("What's the noise like around here?") to the impolite ("When we buy this place how soon can you get your sh*t out of here?")

Ummm.. NO!!! You are paying rent to live in a home. It *is* the tenant's home as long as they live there! As if they have to remove all personal photos!!

Nope, once it's up for sale it is pretty much a saleroom. I found that treating it as such cut down on the feeling of violation as uninvited hordes came through. (Don't even get me started on the kids who used our bed as a trampoline!)

How on earth would they "force" their way in? I would call the police, not the agent!

Their english wasn't too good and when I went inside to get them the agent's card and a flier they just pushed through. Since they were old and I didn't want to cause a fuss after talking to the agent (they couldn't send someone down) I guided them back to the front door and gave them the flier and card. We had quite a few people who would arrive at odd times, they all got a card and flier with the open times on it.

That's odd. Every, single person I know who's had their rented home up for sale and lots of inspection got reduced rent.

The responses I got over three sales. No. Laughter. And a rent rise.

Nope again - it's not a fixture unless it was mentioned on the condition report at the start of the lease. For a start, I wouldn't change a showerhead for an inspection (what, are the viewers going to shower..?!). If I did, it's my property and I'd take it with me when I left if I wanted it.

Yep, and the agent said he'd check that we left it there when we left. A showerhead vs our bond and clean record? No contest there.

They have to give the adequate legal notice. I don't know anywhere that it's 2 weeks.

The last one they made a promise to the new owner, and since it was a family and we'd quickly found a place...I might have been more upset if we hadn't secured a new rental by the time the new owners wanted us out.

No, it's your "job" (if you want your bond back) to clean it to the same condition it was on the condition report when you went in!

No harm in cleaning it to better condition if it causes no harm. It stops the owner asking for some of the bond. Why take the risk for a bit of extra elbow grease?)

I really don't mean to insult you, but it sounds like you've really been brainwashed and/or taken advantage of, if you genuinely think all those things are the responsibility/role of the tenant!! As a tenant, you're required to leave the condition in the same condition you took it in (minus fair wear and tear) and to pay the rent in full, on time. That's pretty much it.

It might be I've known PMs. It might be that our first land lords were the strictest in the entire universe. It might be as a former public housing tenant I'm over compensating.

But sales are stressful for the tenant. They are a lot less stressful if you treat it as a business and expect nothing in return for doing the right thing.

As it is the new place we're in are great and the agents treat us as customers paying them thousands a year and not scum. In return we'll keep the property in great condition until we can buy a place of our own.

We've just been awfully unlucky in that we've had a few places sell under us.

 

[tssk]

Maybe I have some warped sense of humour, but I read tssk's post as purely and simply "tongue in cheek".

I assumed that the list of "how to be a good tenant and help sell the landlords house" MAY be what the owner and agent would like tenants to do, but that it was a bit of fun.

A bit like, perhaps, asking my teenagers if we could drive to Sydney with everybody humming lovely tunes and no arguments - yeah RIGHT!!

Nope. All true. However most tenants couldn't give a toss.

We were in one place where the entire block was selling and the open house schedule was pretty grueling. One sat morning and two evenings a week. However to break it up the PM split the open houses amongst all the units.

I used to stay in regardless as the pattern when it wasn't our turn would go like this.

Agent knocks on tenants door "Hi, we're showing some people thr.."

Tenant : "F*** off." Slams door.

(Sounds of footsteps on stairs and a knock at our door.)

Agent "Really sorry about this but do you mind if we show some people through your place?"

In the end the agent just took the potential buyers through our unit and noone elses.

If you've got an agent selling a tenanted property it's more than likely they are copping more grief and apin than you'd know about.

 

[Ozsunrise]

My cousin is about to vacate her rental that she has been living in for the past 12 months. PM's give around 2 hours notice, and bring people through whether she is there or not (prospective new tenants).
She told them they needed to give her 24 hours notice, they said it wasn't convenient that time (or the next etc!!) Apparently they have a key, so take people through whenever they have someone interested, usually giving her a courtesy call a couple of hours in advance!
She is leaving next weekend, so not worth chasing up, but a huge inconvenience for her!
Susan

 

[tssk]

Under NSW law agents have to give reasonable notice.

However due to the way the law is worded they can define reasonable as two hours notice.

The dodgier ones can get around this by using the 'instant access' rule. Agent's can have instant access if they believe the water heater is busted. I have had friends who've heard the agent at the door knock loudly and state "Oh my! I think the water heater is leaking!"

I've been lucky but each time there's been a sale I've had at least one occassion where the agent has asked for access within 30 mins. (30 mins is my tolerance as it gives me just enough time to get home via a cab and quickly open up the place.)

 

[caterpillar]

Tssk, you are crazy. You have been/are being taken advantage of by your PM/landlord. Apparently you are too accommodating and this is being taken advantage of.

You really need to learn your rights as a tenant, because you are talking crazy talk!!