What ever happened to inspired conversation ...

Socialism was a response to societies highly polarized into haves and have-nots.

so instead of encouraging people to become entreprenaurs and creating worthwhile employment, that supplies financial rewards for those willing to work hard, you suggest we all join the bread line in the state funded economy?

there are reasons why socialism failed/is failing miserably worldwide.

the best way to change the world is to improve your own patch, then use your own patch to improve your immediate community, then use your community to improve you city etc etc ... and note that this is a positive cascade, not negative.
 
so instead of encouraging people to become entreprenaurs and creating worthwhile employment, that supplies financial rewards for those willing to work hard, you suggest we all join the bread line in the state funded economy?

there are reasons why socialism failed/is failing miserably worldwide.

the best way to change the world is to improve your own patch, then use your own patch to improve your immediate community, then use your community to improve you city etc etc ... and note that this is a positive cascade, not negative.

Socialism arose through the failure of Law to protect the populace from the wealthy. Repeat the conditions and risk repeating the process.
 
On the other hand, if I wanted to affect change I'll just make enough money to buy some politicians. That would be my way of doing it.

Fortunately or unfortunately, I just can't be ar*ed.
Alex
 
Socialism arose through the failure of Law to protect the populace from the wealthy. Repeat the conditions and risk repeating the process.


Socialism was a revolt against feudalism, not democratic capitalism.

Socialism just replaces Kings and Queens with despots....and I challenge you to prove me wrong.

Socialism has its place, and that is about the one week it takes to depose a King or Queen, and replace them with democracy.

Socialism that lasts longer then one week, serves one purpose only, and that is to replace a despot with an ego bound to be a despot.

As 'The Who' said....."Meet the new boss....same as the old boss"
 
Yeah, I'm a greedy capitalist pig too.

This forum is about investing for goodness sake.

If ya want to talk about religion or the environment or helping poor people or saving Africa or anything there must be somewhere else for ya to go than here.

See ya's.
 
Ah, sees "Marx", sees "socialism"; brain switches into programmed response.

I suggest moving past the labels and programmed responses.

Rentier capitalists don't add much that is useful to society. Renting out houses is useful to a limited degree but it does not add much. Building or renovating adds more value.

What value do you add?

What did that Marx do, other than socialism?
if you google 'Marx' -SOCIALISM to exclude from the replies you get mostly the Marx brothers, and never yet saw Karl with Groucho.

Socialism, haves & Have nots?
Dacha at Sochi, Limousine with transponder that changes traffic lights as you approach, or three families in a one room apartment, waiting in line for hours to buy a loaf of bread.
History rewritten in MsWord.
<ctrl-H>Tsar<tab>Commisar<Alt-A><ctrl-H>peasant<tab>comrade<Alt-A>
 
Socialism was a revolt against feudalism, not democratic capitalism.

Socialism just replaces Kings and Queens with despots....and I challenge you to prove me wrong.

Socialism has its place, and that is about the one week it takes to depose a King or Queen, and replace them with democracy.

Socialism that lasts longer then one week, serves one purpose only, and that is to replace a despot with an ego bound to be a despot.

As 'The Who' said....."Meet the new boss....same as the old boss"

In the USofA, 1% own 33%, 3% own 50% of the nations wealth. Is capitalism in the USofA democratic?

The point of introducing rentier capitalism is that there can come a time when those legitimately charging rent on resources essential to the functioning of our economy exceeds the benefit to the economy - socialist, capitalist, royalist or whateverist. I believe we are there now. Debt continues to expand beyond useful purposes.

If you like a complicimicated but thoughtful read:
Saving, Asset-Price Inflation, and Debt-Induced Deflation
 
Yeah, I'm a greedy capitalist pig too.

This forum is about investing for goodness sake.

If ya want to talk about religion or the environment or helping poor people or saving Africa or anything there must be somewhere else for ya to go than here.

See ya's.

This is the investing WITH inspiration thread apparently. See ya.
 
In the USofA, 1% own 33%, 3% own 50% of the nations wealth. Is capitalism in the USofA democratic?
Democracy does not mean that you have to give away what you made to those who have not. thats socialism rearing its ugly head again nullabore
Those who have not, have the opportunity to find their niche and make their fortune, Hello Bill Gates. EAch of those 97% who jointly own 50% has the option in a capitalist democracy to find a business idea, develop it by hard work and effort, and own a larger share of the pie, where the pie just gets bigger by their efforts. Jims mowing? Novus windscreen repair? Microsoft?
 
Actually, its in orbit (by your criteria).

Refer to pages 25 to 27 (29-31 of the PDF) of the Demographia 3rd Annual International Housing Affordability Survey

You want to effect change? Then write to the politicians. If you're lucky they'll listen to you and get people like me to come up with answers.

You're barking up the wrong tree in this forum.

M

In Armidale, I came across an Aboriginal Housing company financing and putting up nice houses scattered throughout the city. A very dramatic change from the bombed out Aboriginal ghetto on the SE edge of town. It can happen.

Edit: This is the company:
ABAC - Armidale Building Aboriginal Corporation
http://www.aho.nsw.gov.au/auto-builders-detail.asp?id=895

Wrong tree? I need to sharpen my ideas somewhere. I might even sharpen someone else's if only by accident.
 
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Democracy does not mean that you have to give away what you made to those who have not. thats socialism rearing its ugly head again nullabore
Those who have not, have the opportunity to find their niche and make their fortune, Hello Bill Gates. EAch of those 97% who jointly own 50% has the option in a capitalist democracy to find a business idea, develop it by hard work and effort, and own a larger share of the pie, where the pie just gets bigger by their efforts. Jims mowing? Novus windscreen repair? Microsoft?

Dear nine cents,

The super-rich have a habit of changing the rules to suit themselves - hence we have socialist anti-monopoly rules to try to keep at least the pretence of a level playing field.

Now what would inspire YOU in the world of housing beyond the daily grind of smash and grab?
 
I would hope that investors are in a better position to suggest how to increase housing affordability rather than how to hoard housing. To be seen to be providing valuable services or to be seen trying to "molopolize" housing services.QUOTE]

Hi Nullagine

Well, I try and do my bit.

As an investor, I have provided quality, affordable housing to seven families. I have leased four of my properties and referred three of my customers to the Office of Housing which has taken medium term leases and removed at least seven people from the 30,000 long waiting list for Public Housing in Victoria.

If I was not an investor, these people would still be waiting for the opportunity of a long term home.

This satisfies my financial need to pay my mortgages and my sense of social justice.

Regarding the issue of productivity - I consider the provision of housing to be of paramount importance. I have worked mind-bogglingly hard to earn the deposits and to pay the shortfall on these properties. The houses are the repository of that productivity. It's a little like putting time in a bottle, when you put your hard earned money into property.

The Lord shall return to you the years which the Locust have eaten (Joel 2:25). The years of work have been returned to me by the value of the properties. I drive past one of my houses occasionally, and I am overwhelmed that the five years that I ran the business and the people I employed and the people who were able to go to work because I cared for their children, should be embodied in that house, in which a family who waited for more than three years on the public housing waiting list now live. The productivity of those years was not mine alone, but the productivity of more than one hundred families plus my staff, and that house is a testament to the power of a democratic society and the enterprise of one individual. Me.


So Nullagine, I don't know which society you live in. I live in one which provides the opportunity for anyone and everyone to 'give it a go'. That I should have put my earnings of five years of 80 hour weeks into a residential property in 1994 and that the property has never been empty except when being refurbished, and that in the 13 years I have owned it I have provided work for the plumber, the electrician, the gardener, the air conditioning manufacturer and installer, ditto the ducted heating people, the paint companies, the carpet manufacturer, the curtain & blind people, the property manager, receptionist, bookkeeper, accountant, conveyancer, mortgage lender, bank etc etc

Is property ownership not productive? Actually, it is the hub of the local economy. Is investing in property being a parasite or a drain on society? Mmmmm, let me think for a minute - nope, it doesn't appear to be a problem for the local community or for society as a whole.

Is housing affordable? Yes, if you live within your means. Is housing expensive for people on limited or fixed incomes? Yes, it probably is, however in other times and other places people shared the cost of accommodation. In Australia, the fastest growing type of household is the single person household. Even students would rather live below the poverty line than share housing.

At the end of the day, when I open my bottle of fine, aged, time, I will be independent of pensions and able to continue to contribute to society with my capacity to go to the RSL for lunch, or to take the Senior Citz day trips, or to have my car serviced, and maybe pay for someone to clean the house and to read to me on Tuesday afternoons.

It is my right to receive the pension and any other government help I need. However, I have no intention of ever needing it. Although I have never planted a field of wheat or manufactured a motor vehicle or built a school, I would like to think that with something as humble as a brown brick, three bedroom Mission Brown house, that I have still contributed something.

Rentier capitalism? Yes, please, sounds like a great idea to me. Please send me details of meeting dates and venues. Be there or be square!




Cheers

Kristine
 
Nulla

You talk about a "Housing Affordability" problem. Could you please explain to my like I'm 6 years old how there is an affordability problem? Before you do, though, let me explain.

I live in Western Sydney where you can pick up a 3 bed house for under $200k. Please tell how the average person cannot afford that? I have a daughter, not yet 18, who has been saving since she got her first part-time job. She has enough saved for a deposit, although she will, of course, need more income for servicability. She is still at school.

Please tell me how it is that someone as young as she is with limited income & a very low hourly wage can save this amount, yet an adult working full time has difficulty affording a home of their own? Let's see......could it be because they are living beyond their means? Could it be because those who winge the most don't want to live in the area they can afford? Maybe, then, it's because they want a "perfect dream home".

Sydney has pockets that are affordable to most, if they just knuckle down & do the hard yards that most of us did to buy our first homes. The other Capital cities will each have their areas where a first home owner can make a start. Even better if you happen to live in Regional areas.

I invest where I live, as well as other areas. Most of my homes are rented to those on low incomes. But do you know what I have noticed? Some of those low income earners have increased their incomes & instead of staying in a cheaper property & save the difference, will move into a more expensive rental home. Many of the low income families in my homes have more expensive cars than I do, they also have all the trimmings (playstations, plasma(s), leather lounge, brand name clothes for the kids, expensive toys).

I had to evict one tenant for failure to pay rent. When I had to clean up the property after she left, she had left many $100's of dollars of "stuff" behind. Useless expensive garbage. Four (that's right four) above ground kiddies swimming pools, all in good order, the expensive ones with filters & everything. I think she replaced it each time the water went green. A keyboard (in good working order). A massive amount of baby clothes & accessories (she was pregnant, so I would have thought that she would want this), designer clothes for herself & the kids, & much more. She had plenty of $$ to pay her rent, but chose to spend it in this way. She would be the first to get on the band wagon & complain that she "can't afford" to buy.

I'm a capitalist & I make no appologies for that. I buy houses & run it like a business. My houses are well maintained, mostly basic homes for the average person. Yes I make money from them. But it doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out that without people like myself & the majority of investors on this forum that there really would be a problem. If we didn't own rental properties, where would the tenants live? There just isn't enough public housing available to house all the people out there that either "can't afford" to buy, choose not to buy, or are just starting out.

What I love about this country we live in is that everyone can make a go of it. The thing is that most won't.
 
I live in Western Sydney where you can pick up a 3 bed house for under $200k. Please tell how the average person cannot afford that?
I think this is the bit people fail to understand. The average person will not (or should not) be living in a dump in western sydney. This didn't happen in the past - why should it now?

And the idea that they can buy this dump as a starter and then move once it has "gone up in price" doesn't make sense either because they need to find somebody else to pay more for the place than they did. Who would that be? Somebody on an even higher income?
 
I think this is the bit people fail to understand. The average person will not (or should not) be living in a dump in western sydney. This didn't happen in the past - why should it now?

And the idea that they can buy this dump as a starter and then move once it has "gone up in price" doesn't make sense either because they need to find somebody else to pay more for the place than they did. Who would that be? Somebody on an even higher income?

Sheesh, you want it all, don't you? So you think Western Sydney isn't good enough for you? You think that the whole area is full of dumps? How naive are you?

For a start, there are some very nice properties out this way. Of course there are also some that are not. That's life!! If you want to live in a McMansion, then you will have to pay a higher price, but make no mistake, you still get the dodgy element of society no matter where you choose to live.
 
Sheesh, you want it all, don't you? So you think Western Sydney isn't good enough for you? You think that the whole area is full of dumps? How naive are you?

For a start, there are some very nice properties out this way. Of course there are also some that are not. That's life!! If you want to live in a McMansion, then you will have to pay a higher price, but make no mistake, you still get the dodgy element of society no matter where you choose to live.

I'm not picking on Western Sydney necessarilly. It's just you mentioned a 3 bed house for under $200K. Without even seeing it I can almost guarantee that it is an inconvenient dump. If that is the future for the average income earner then Australia's living standards are going DOWN, DOWN, DOWN! I wonder what the low income earners will be living in? A tent??
 
I'm not picking on Western Sydney necessarilly. It's just you mentioned a 3 bed house for under $200K. Without even seeing it I can almost guarantee that it is an inconvenient dump. If that is the future for the average income earner then Australia's living standards are going DOWN, DOWN, DOWN! I wonder what the low income earners will be living in? A tent??


Again you are showing just how much you DON'T KNOW!! I agree that this might not be the nicest home in Australia, but it is exactly what I described. A 3 bed average house for under $200k. It is NOT a dump. If it were put on the rental market it would rent for around $220pw without having to do anything to it. It is houses like this that many average hardworking people buy/rent everyday in Australia. Of course, we all know that you are better than that & it would be below you to live there. But many do & many get their start by doing this & move on up when they are ready.

http://www.domain.com.au/Public/PropertyDetails.aspx?adid=2006537098#
 
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