What if the mining (boom) ends?

As a relatively new property investor I've had numerous people ask me if it is too risky to invest in property at the moment.

The questions have mainly been based upon a belief that Perth property prices, and to a lesser degree the whole of Australia have been bumped up due to the influence of the mining boom and that when the mining boom / mining in general peters out that we will have a housing crash, or at least a substantial drop in prices.

In my opinion strong fundamentals of low unemployment, scarcity of housing and large population growth would reduce the likely hood of any large price drops in at least the lower half of the market.

I look forward to all your opinions on the matter :)
 
Ash, nice topic mate.

Look, my opinion, there is always a crash after a boom. Happens all the time.

The thing is, we, now, are in the beginning of an upswing.

As property prices increase, the collective wealth of a lot of Australians who own property is going to increase.

These people are going to do things like approach their bank so that they can "milk" their properties (or they may just sell some property). Either way cash will be abundant.

That cash will be spent (as consumer confidence increases) and will stoke the "economic fire". The ol' cogs of the economy will start churning over regardless of the mining boom.
 
It depends on what you want to achieve and your time frame.

If you're looking to make a quick buck flipping properties in mining towns then perhaps this may not be a good time to consider such a strategy.

If you're looking to slowly accumulate a portfolio of residential properties across many decades as a punt on long term capital growth perhaps a mining bust (if one eventuates) will have little to no impact in the long run.

If you find a distressed vendor who wants to get out and you can buy below market value in a deal that has minimal downside and a lot of upside, does it matter?

Wealth is created transaction by transaction. I mean people made money in the GFC buying from distressed sellers, perhaps they would welcome a mining boom/housing crash if one eventuated?
 
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As a relatively new property investor I've had numerous people ask me if it is too risky to invest in property at the moment.

The questions have mainly been based upon a belief that Perth property prices, and to a lesser degree the whole of Australia have been bumped up due to the influence of the mining boom and that when the mining boom / mining in general peters out that we will have a housing crash, or at least a substantial drop in prices.

In my opinion strong fundamentals of low unemployment, scarcity of housing and large population growth would reduce the likely hood of any large price drops in at least the lower half of the market.

I look forward to all your opinions on the matter :)

There will be price drops and price rises - that is all part and parcel of investing in real estate. Its generally a long term investment to be safest but for some it can be a get in and out exercise.

I myself don't fit the risk profile of investing in mining towns but some do and have reaped the rewards - some of them have also weathered the hard times though - the mining industry has had tough time many times.

I'll house the FIFO and office engineers in Perth instead :)
 
The mining boom is somewhat on the way out.

One only has to look at the job losses in the coal mining industry to see the effects of low prices, high costs, increased supply and reduced demand.

The thing that I think will decide if we have a minor impact versus major impact is dependent on China.

If we have a soft landing in China and demand is curtailed slowly, then I think impacts on Australia will be minimal. A soft landing would allow time to help further develop and build a more diverse economy that has national strength's in more than one area aside from minerals and energy resources.

A soft landing would mean gradual decline in property prices in mining only towns, which would lead to a more orderly exit for investors switching money to other assets or areas.

A hard landing in China, on the other hand could potentially present a much larger and widespread impact on both business and property.

A hard landing could result in immediate value write downs for properties in mining towns, resulting in lower rents, lower serviceability and increased sales. The last thing we would want is a big rush for the exits for people holding property in mining towns.

Although same as in the share markets, greed and fear help to drive prices. If fear spreads on the property front in these areas there could be a flood of properties onto the open market.

I think if that happens this would hurt regional areas, but capital and metropolitan areas should/would be fairly well insulated. Especially if there is a big switch from regional to city based property.

Depending on timeframes and the extent to which this could impact on regional properties, could present opportunities for under valued areas.

All a bunch of what if scenario's, but I for one would not want to be holding a large property portfolio in mining towns when the music stops.

And this is coming from someone who works in mining!

I think best case scenario, if mining boom is truly over, then we see a gradual decline in values in mining specific areas. Would lead to less pronounced market fluctuations and would limit potential downside in these regions.


And having said all that, I think commodity prices will stay above historical averages for the foreseeable future.

For most base metals (copper, zinc, lead, nickel), precious metals (gold, silver) we have been seeing a trend where although prices have been driven upward in a commodity super cycle, the cash costs for producing have also been rising.

This is driven by a number of factors, wages growth, inflation, but most importantly is declining grades of our super size elephant mines.

Basically, we have taken all the easy pickings from these mines, and the ore bodies that are left are lower quality, meaning we have to run production rates at higher percentages to return the same output!

The end result is that high commodity prices are here to stay, otherwise all the big producers will eventually stop production if they aren't making money. So I think the super cycle is probably drawing to a close, but we will still see higher demand than compared to historical averages.

Mining will be stronger for longer, but we are in the bottom, or at least down trend in a metals market cyclical movement, which may last 1-2 years? Who knows.
 
Thanks for all the replies guys. It's interesting to see a range of opinions on the issue.

I'm more focusing on capital cities and long term growth rather then mining towns with my investing so it's good to hear most thing there won't be a large downturn :cool:.

Keep the opinions rolling in.
 
What you need to work out is, when the mining boom ends, will mining investment simply slow considerably or will existing operations actually be taken off the market?

Very big difference.
 
As a relatively new property investor I've had numerous people ask me if it is too risky to invest in property at the moment.

The questions have mainly been based upon a belief that Perth property prices, and to a lesser degree the whole of Australia have been bumped up due to the influence of the mining boom and that when the mining boom / mining in general peters out that we will have a housing crash, or at least a substantial drop in prices.

In my opinion strong fundamentals of low unemployment, scarcity of housing and large population growth would reduce the likely hood of any large price drops in at least the lower half of the market.

I look forward to all your opinions on the matter :)

I buy and sell all the time, when GFC hit I was buying and made some great $. I just don't worry about the noise as its always there, and just remember economists always get it wrong, and I bet those telling you not to buy property don't actually hold any other than their primary residence:rolleyes:

Now is as good a time as any to jump in, I am guessing another interest rate drop in August, we are now also seeing an upswing in various States. Keep researching and follow various threads on SS and what markets are moving and you may find a great opportunity.

As far as mining towns go, IMO I think it is the wrong time in the cycle to be buying in these areas.
 
Didn't the mining boom take a big breather during the GFC also?

I guess it depends on how you define boom.
During the GFC the volume of commodities shipped didn't decline, it was the spot prices that declined. Bearing in mind that many producers were receiving contracted prices for their output which may have been lower than the spot price. We also had logistical bottle necks to contend with. Hence the investment in duplication of rail lines and port facilities to increase shipping volumes.
When the time to re-negotiate contracts came around suppliers may have got higher prices than being received before or may ship more volume at a lower price.
From what they say it's the investment in new capacity that's on hold until such time the investment will prove to be economically viable.
Exploration, construction and pre-construction services should taper off.
 
It's ended folks.

We've got a newly renoed unit in Kalgoorlie, which we've never had trouble renting - ever - and it's been vacant since the reno over a month ago.

And, the general economy is still shaky from my anecdotal discussions with folks from all walks of life, and Banks still aren't in a generous lending mood.

Another interest rate cut next month, and getting rid of Labor....may help.
 
unions are the problem, not the solution.

When a mine shuts down there are hundreds of formally high paid blokes looking for a job (perhaps over paid, & heavily unionised).

These blokes will actively auction off their labour to future employers at ever decreasing rates until they gain employment.

An electrician earning $150,000 FIFO might have to accept an $80,000 job in the Metro area. $80K is still a good wage, but the mortgage repayments he can afford are substantially less.

that income drop could have serviced a $560K debt....
 
same thing will happen when Holden shuts up shop here in Adelaide.

1000's of highly paid manufacturing guys who have specialised skills with no where to go.

Guys earning $60K - $70K with all their shift bonuses and over time, will be fighting over non existent jobs paying $38K.

So don't buy houses in Adelaide's North Elizabeth, Salisbury, Modbury. Wait until there is blood on the streets if you must.
 
It's ended folks.

We've got a newly renoed unit in Kalgoorlie, which we've never had trouble renting - ever - and it's been vacant since the reno over a month ago.

And, the general economy is still shaky from my anecdotal discussions with folks from all walks of life, and Banks still aren't in a generous lending mood.

Another interest rate cut next month, and getting rid of Labor....may help.

It's hard to get a handle on just what is really happening...... Does anyone really know.....?

With the US and Japan trying to create inflation by devaluing their currencies by printing billions of dollars it could all get out of hand.... Inflation is very hard to control when it starts to run.

Is the price of gold being manipulated....? Price of gold sky rockets then Kalgoorlie would be a pretty good place to be....

My head hurts :p
 
same thing will happen when Holden shuts up shop here in Adelaide.

1000's of highly paid manufacturing guys who have specialised skills with no where to go.

Guys earning $60K - $70K with all their shift bonuses and over time, will be fighting over non existent jobs paying $38K.

So don't buy houses in Adelaide's North Elizabeth, Salisbury, Modbury. Wait until there is blood on the streets if you must.

http://smh.domain.com.au/real-estate-news/house-price-recovery-gains-strength-20130801-2r11q.html

Well you're only half correct. Because prices are hitting new peaks in Sydney, Melbourne, Perth and Canberra.

However you got the bit right about Adelaide, which recorded the biggest falls.
 
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