Who Gives Xmas Cards/Gifts for their PM/Tenant?

[skater]

I have nil vacancy rate. you have to factor that in your calculations. Also no malicious damage which can run into thousands of dollars. No tribunal costs also.

Just long term tenants with no headache, and the money just rolls into my bank account which keeps me happy.

If you keep rents at market rate (or higher) you know there are headaches. Rents at the moment are sky high and this puts presssure on tenants. They fall one, two, three or four weeks behind and then they have to play catch up. And the tribunals are all on the tenants side - I know from past experience ( Ive been in this game a long time).

Just play the psychological game and keep the tenants TRULELY happy!

Well, I've been in the game a long time too. I have much more than three IPs.

OK, say you have two weeks vacancy per year on each of your properties (I have less, but lets work with this). You are charging market rent of $300pw and you lose $600 from each of your three IPs. So, after 12 months you have lost $1800. I can tell you now, that I would rather have two weeks vacancy over your loss of $9360.

Of course, you will only get vacancies with tenant turn over, but like I said before, tenants don't really turn over that fast IF you have a well maintained home that they like and they don't have any personal issues making them want/need to move, and your rent is around market rates.

I can't say that I have had any malicious damage, but if that is of concern to you, there is insurance to cover this. I have had tribunal cases, but you do have more issues just by having more properties. Even though I have had tribunal cases, I have never been charged by the PM for their services to attend and do what is necessary. The tribunal is not all for the tenant although they will give the tenant some wriggle room (too much if you ask me) if they are in arrears.

FWIW, I treat my IPs as a Business. As a Business it is my responsibility as the managing director to maximise profitability while minimising expenses. There really are not any headaches, as a good PM should deal with any hiccups.

 

[datto]

Cash rent? none at all.

treat IPs as a business? Well some businesses are really tough on their employees and count all the beans, as they say, while others are quite lax.

As long as the employee does the right thing and meets realistic targets then everythings OK. The way I see it, the same goes for being a landlord.

there are benefits in being a good landlord rather than being a scrooge who tries to maximise the amount of money they can squeeze out of a tenant.

Look, I know each investor runs their "business" the way they see best but as I said I have been doing this for many years and I am very happy with my approach.

The last 6 years of property investing have been a breeze for me. Also, I still dont think you have factored all the expenses in your calculations. Think about how many times you or your PM have had to go to the tribunal? The headaches, telephone calls, sleepless nights, driving around. Then there's forking out thousands of dollars in landlord insurance? The arguments? Stress? Medication?

Nay, take at least 10% of all your rents for starters and you will see better quality tenants. They will think the world of you and recommend their friends and relatives as future tenants.

Of course if a tenant is a rat then get rid of them, root them out like weed from your garden.

 

[kathryn d]

We write about 100 leases a year, as we also have a lot of IP's.

We have a few tenants who stay a year or more, then usually their relationship breaks down and they go their separate ways. They can't afford the place by themself.Almost always skip leaving rental arrears.

We have college students who stay for the school year, and they are the absolute best tenants.
The only students who complain alot are the married women, who go home on weekends.At least they are usually clean and neat.

Single/separated/divorced men are easy going, but usually need to clean after they leave.

Most of our leases are Fixed Term Leases, and being in Nova Scotia, we are not required to give them any notice, as their lease expires. If we invite them, or they ask, we may sign another lease .We can then increase their rent if we choose. If the market allows, we will increase the rent.
Our month to month leases are a different story. We can increase the rent a year, and only on the anniversary date of when they signed their lease.If we want to increase the rent, we need to inform them 4 months prior.

There is nothing mean about any of this.
We fix and repair our properties, not for the benefit of the tenants, because it is our property and we want to maintain them.

Our tenants will leave, because we will not tolerate them breaking the rules.They are generally pretty simple. No drugs, smoking inside, and pay your rent.

We also go to the tribunals a fair bit,but that is also because of the amount of tenants we have each year.

 

[jezza]

Datto

So what your saying is if you charge 20% below market rent you get a better quality of tenent or are you just afraid that they may move out if you charged them correct market rent.

Been doing this for 10 years and have more than 3 IP's and to this day still review every 6 months and have not been once to the tribunal and never had to claim insurance, the longest I have had one of my properties vacent was 8 days and every one is atleast at market rent. As much as I would love to claim all the credit, the credit goes to my PM's who each do a great job. No I don't buy them a XMAS present I do something every month which is allow them to take a percentage of my rent so they too can have a job.

Jezza

 

[skater]

Also, I still dont think you have factored all the expenses in your calculations. Think about how many times you or your PM have had to go to the tribunal? The headaches, telephone calls, sleepless nights, driving around. Then there's forking out thousands of dollars in landlord insurance? The arguments? Stress? Medication?

Nay, take at least 10% of all your rents for starters and you will see better quality tenants.

Gee, I have a lot of welfare tenants, but you know, I don't get headaches or sleepless nights. I do get the odd call from a PM, but it is usually about something that is a no-brainer.

Thousands of dollars in landlord insurance? I'm not sure where you're getting your figures from, but it is really quite cheap. I think I pay around $300pa for some, and there are others that I pay less for.

As for arguments, stress and medication, I don't know what you are talking about. All I can say is that if you think investing in IP's is that stressful then either you need to look at the class of tenant you were/are attracting, or maybe property isn't the right vehicle for you.

 

[jaycee]

Gee, I have a lot of welfare tenants, but you know, I don't get headaches or sleepless nights. I do get the odd call from a PM, but it is usually about something that is a no-brainer.

Thousands of dollars in landlord insurance? I'm not sure where you're getting your figures from, but it is really quite cheap. I think I pay around $300pa for some, and there are others that I pay less for.
How many properties do you have ? No need to answer of coursse, but I read Datto's post as clearly referring to the total amount, not per individual property....
As for arguments, stress and medication, I don't know what you are talking about. All I can say is that if you think investing in IP's is that stressful then either you need to look at the class of tenant you were/are attracting, or maybe property isn't the right vehicle for you.

I thought he also explained this clearly, he has what he considers to be be good happy tenants who have not given him any grief. Surely you read that ?

 

[skater]

I thought he also explained this clearly, he has what he considers to be be good happy tenants who have not given him any grief. Surely you read that ?

Yeah, I read that. I also have good happpy tenants. Difference is that mine all pay market rent.

 

[Shaneelastic]

With all due respect, Shaneelastic, you will find that the more properties you have control of, the more problems you will get. It is, afterall, a numbers game. It stands to reason that if you have 20 properties you have 20 times the probability of having a problem tenant than the investor that only has one property.

As for myself, I review my properties and increase rents where possible at regular intervals. I don't take into account what time of year it is, only what the market is doing. Because the reviews are regular, the increases are usually smaller than the investor who does irregular reviews and the longer term tenants expect regular rent rises. They only get a rent rise, if the market has risen in the last six months. If it has not risen, they get a letter letting them know they have had a rent review and there will be no increase.

Should I defer putting up my rent by a couple of months just because it is December? Would any other service provider? The answer is no! Resi landlords are a Business just like any other Business out there, and like it or not, all the other Businesses increase prices at Christmas (if they are able to), so why should we be any different? So long as the ask price we are charging is in line with the market, why should I have to not receive what is rightfully mine just because of the Month the tenant's review falls into.

I have a classice example of a huge bill that fell due for me on 24th December from my electricity provider. I had had solar connected and because of the time that the panels went in I didn't receive one bill at the scheduled time, instead I received this nice little love letter which was for six months instead of three. The cost was around $1350.

Did they send an appology notice with it? Did they extend the due date, so it would be easier to pay? Did they say, "Hey, we know it's Christmas, just pay a bit off each month and we'll be sweet"? NO! They sent it out the same as any other bill and I paid it, the same as any other bill.

You have taken me out of line loveee.
I was referring to people bragging about it. I couldnt give a toss when rents increase, but to brag about it is another thing. My question - How many people would brag in public that they gave their tenant a xmas present of a rent rise - not many if any, just doing it behind a computer screen is a lot easier
BTW I am capitalist as well.

 

[datto]

Skater, dont you ever become a tenant of mine, coz I will charge you market rate PLUS 20% LOL

 

[jaycee]

Skater, No one suggested you did have unhappy tenants.

But, you, after reading that Shane also had only happy tenants, you still said "All I can say is that if you think investing in IP's is that stressful then either you need to look at the class of tenant you were/are attracting, or maybe property isn't the right vehicle for you."

I for one, find that a bit of strange "comeabck" or "point" ?

 

[Leghorn]

I don't think tere is anyhing wrong with charging market rent either, however put the rents up in November or January. It won't make much difference to you as an investor and will provide some good will to your teants. These are the people who are your CUSTOMERS! Without them your investments will look pretty sick.

 

[jaycee]

I do think some of it that we are writing on a screen intead of conversing properly and only some of is meant to be said is said.

Many many times it's come to my mind that tenants are cutsomers. Mostly when people justify why the do nasty things "in return" like kathryn hinted at- tenants have no qualms in leaving breaking a lease, why should I do them any favours"

But I think most of the people here are probably fairer in real life then they write on this thread.

But either way, tenants ARE customers.. I for one whould hate to run a drug dealing business Why ? I'd hat to get scary intimidating guys or scumbag customers who do terrible things and might wnat to rip me off - so guess what, I don't run a drug dealing business cuase of that. I don't say "stuff it, I will continue to run a business where I don't like the cutomers, and I will treat them the same (WRONG) wy they treat me.... That would make me the same as the people I said I was disgusted by.

If a tenant is on a peridocial lease and I wanted to increase it, would I do it on purpose just before Christmas just to laugh / "get them back: at them getting upset cause they "deserve it". No, I hope I wouldn't be that vindictive.

But despite some of the assertions here, I think more than just me, leghorn and shane feel that way, just my guess...

hardnosed kathryn has explained that she doesn't give Christmas presents or bonuses, oh except to a coupel (or was it a few) supers, and always increases renat on time every time, oh except to I think it was a couple of tenants

I think sometimes we get caught up in our own ego and the heat of discussion which is then turned into a defensive argument.

 

[skater]

I was referring to people bragging about it. I couldnt give a toss when rents increase, but to brag about it is another thing.

FWIW, loveee, you are the one taking this out of context. I did not brag about it. I stated a fact. Two distinctly different things. My actual words were:

I gave notice yesterday for an increase on one.

So, from my portfolio only one was due for a review. The review was done and an increase sent. Statement of fact.

If I was going to brag about it, the wording would have been completely different and yes, that would have been inappropriate. As I said, it is merely business as usual. There is no emotion involved.

On the otherhand, someone who is bragging about something usually is emotionally invested in the thing they are bragging about.

I think sometimes since it is the written word and not a face to face conversation it is sometimes easy to take things the wrong way, which is what appears to be the case here.

 

[jezza]

Jaycee

While I do completely agree with you that yes some ego's may get in the way and getting on here and pumping ones self up that they gave there tenant a rent increase for XMAS is the wrong way to put it. The reality is and luckily I only had 2 in December but I don't like any of my tenants being on a month to month basis and they were the ones that in one case it was 2 years ago and another was I think 6 years ago moved in to seperate properties in December. Every October my PM sends me a letter for these 2 properties. The letter will say something like there 12 months is up yada yada yada and either the PM believe it should go up X amount or do I want to put the rent up or keep it and current rate. That is my opportunity to put the rent up at that time. I am not going to go and write, put it up in January and let them keep it at the same amount if they sign for another year.

Tenants are aware that at the end of there tenancy there is a number of options, but to me the key ones are, there's they can move out and mine is I can review the rent. Now to me if they move in to a place in December and that is when there tenancy expires, the reality is that is when one of those 2 options will occur, I always take the oportunity to review the rent whether its December, May or whenever.

Jezza

 

[skater]

But, you, after reading that Shane also had only happy tenants, you still said "All I can say is that if you think investing in IP's is that stressful then either you need to look at the class of tenant you were/are attracting, or maybe property isn't the right vehicle for you."

No, that comment was not to Shane, it was to Datto who mentioned something about stress and medication in relation to management of properties. My comment was that if things seem that stressful, then maybe IPs are not the right vehicle for someone who feels that way.

 

[jaycee]

Jezza, Obviously lease renewal time is when it needs to occur, I dont think / didn't mean to suggest that was wrong.

 

[jaycee]

LOL! Me too!

I think it only fair that if I've got to pay my bills, then the tenants do too, and I don't care what time of year it is, if they need a little shove from an eviction/tribunal, then that's fine by me.

Skater, this is the sort of wroding that might (remember, when you reply, I said "might") have caused some to use the term "bragging" top describe it.

Let's not get bogged donwn in the literary definition of bragging and dissect it to see if tit was or not, perhaps bragging isn;t the right word, but I can see what people meant by using the term "bragging".

Can you see where they are coming from? I'm not asking if you think they are right, even I am not that stupid, just that it might have gotten construed that way.




It didn't really sound like just a "......Statement of fact".

 

[Sez]

Just quietly responding to the OP here....
I'm a PM and a tenant - I send a Christmas present to both my PM and my LL . I know how thankless a task it is so some choccies at a hectic time of the year for the PM and usually a bottle of wine for my landlord to say thanks for a great year, we love living here and appreciate that you let us!
I also send Christmas Cards to a lot of my landlords with a hand written note , It may be business but we spend a lot of time dealing with each other, I know all about their kids, pets, grand kids and marriages! It just seems right to me to do that .

 

[fisherman]

Many tenants and PMs are women. It is 2013. As a older male I would never, ever, contemplate doing anything that could be vaguely construed as 'creepy' or harassment.

Even an innocent Xmas card or gift could be used as 'evidence' by the clever opportunist or neurotic to win a $$ settlement or some other advantage.

A claim that is completely bogus still results in an expensive legal bill and lifelong embarrassment regardless of it being found to be entirely without foundation in a court.

Woman to woman is a different ball game entirely.

I know plenty of lawyers and I prefer to meet them socially.

 

[chindonly]

We usually give a box of choccies to tenants each year at Xmas. They appreciate it and I think $12 each is a small price to pay if they are good tenants. They are essentially our income stream and allow us to keep a valuable, appreciating asset!

Have had some bad ones that we didn't give anything to! lol