Who pays for break-in damage??

[strangep]

Hi all

Just a quick question about break-in damage and who should pay.

I've just received an email from my PM stating that the tenant has reported an attempted break-in. The only damage was a smashed window at the front of the house. They (the PM) have apparently arranged for the window to be fixed immediately and have requested details of my insurance policy to arrange a claim.

Has anyone come across this before?? I would have thought that it was the tenant's responsibility to sort this.....in fact, someone tried to break in to a property that myself and my wife were renting a few years ago in Melbourne. The lock on the front door was damaged and we didn't even think about asking the landlord to pay for it we just organised and paid for everything ourselves.

Can anyone shed any light on this by relating a similar experience.

Any replies gratefully received.

Thanks
Paul

 

[duncan_m]

Paul,

I don't know your states legislation.. in SA its the landlords responsibility..

I felt shafted around 12 months ago when I had the front and rear doors of one of my units smashed in by the Tenants ex-Husband.. I had to pay for them.

The only damage that is the Tenants responsiblity in SA is their own and that of their invited guests.

 

[strangep]

Thanks Duncan

The place is in Brisbane and I'm starting to get a horrible feeling that I'm going to be in the same boat.

I would also feel pretty hard done by in your circumstances.

What is to stop a tenant breaking the window accidentally and then saying it was an attempted break-in?? Seems strange that they broke the window at the front of the house in full view of the street and that no actual break-in occurred. Maybe it's just me being over suspicious.....

If I'm required by the law to pay then I'll happily pay...I just thought it sounded a bit odd that it was my responsibility.

Thanks again
Paul

 

[Gill Bates]

RE
"''What is to stop a tenant breaking the window accidentally and then saying it was an attempted break-in?? Seems strange that they broke the window at the front of the house in full view of the street and that no actual break-in occurred. Maybe it's just me being over suspicious....."

I ENSURE the tenent reports the matter to police.

If tennet is lying , they MAY feel a bit uncomfortable about lying to police , since if it was discovered, they would be charged with a offence themselves..

A police officer would have much experience in such situations , and person could easy make contradictory statement. They also can do background checks etc.

I would actually mention this to the tennent , about "they broke the window at the front of the house" .... have to be really carefull how u say it - so they sense u think it is pretty suspicious - but imply they did it

I would ask tennet "why do u think it was a attemepted breakin" and carefully observe their body language.

I found u tend to develope a 6th sense. [Ive found that tennets that lie or stretch the truth , eventually make contradictory statements. Ive found the best way is to minimize any losses and not renew their lease. I used to be so gullable. ]

A house i had, was broken in to from a front window.
Situation . 3 pane casement window, broke lower pane - about 300mm2 . Window had locked window locks on. Then they must have given the window a tremendous yank - and the screws on the window locks gave way. At least 2 people must have climbed in thru the window in full view of the busy road which is about 4 m away ( If u know brisbane - its in Vulture St - which is where troublemakers tend to hang out. )

I have been robbed before. So all the doors where deadlocked - ie need a key to open from the inside. They stole a TV that was in a large box. + other stuff. This got taken out thru the window - once again in full view of road traffic - I think people do not want to stop or get involved.

 

[Cosmo]

My brother had a window broken near his front door on one of his investment properties some time ago and nothing was stolen or disturbed.
Told another PI mate who's been in the game for a long time and he said that the tenant probably locked himself out. He reckons an old trick and the quickest way in is to break a window and report it the next day as a break-in to the PM.

 

[dwyerfam]

Paul,

I had similar case about six mths ago re my daughter's I.P. which I self-manage on her behalf. The tenants were in middle of moving out and when I called in and they had left a hand written note (on a small gubby piece of paper) inside the laundry/garage area, saying the back laundry door was damaged due to "a break-in (just the day before)". Rang the (male) tenant at that time and told him point blank that I did not believe that it was a break in. I continued on to say that if it was a genuine break-in, then they would have reported it to the police etc (he indicated that he had not done so as only "a few little items" were stolen).

Don't we all make it an immediate reaction to report a "break-in" to the local police when one's own house gets broken in?. Told him that I will replace the whole door and as well as the damaged lock etc, which will be deducted from their bond. No further action was entered into on his part.

I reckon it was a matter of them "forgetting the keys to the house" when they were running back and forward to the next rental they had moved into, which is about 3 hour return trip away.

I would take on board the good info that Gill Gates has said above.


Danny D.

 

[kierank]

We had a window broken in one of our IPs about a year ago. The tenant said one of the teenage kids tried to open the window but it was struck. The kid's hand slipped and went thru the glass - had to go to hospital to get stiches. Tenant phoned PM and glass was replaced immediately (I understand this is the law).

PM phoned us and we weren't happy. It was our suspicion that the tenant's three teenage boys were mucking around in the room and one of them put their arm thru the glass. Main reason for the suspicion - we painted the inside of the IP about 6 months earlier and all windows opened OK - since the glass has been replaced, the tenant has not complained about the "strucked" window. Replacing the glass cost me $80 - we decided it was really worth the effort pursuing. I guess the tenant thought they had "won". Whenever the tenant raises an issue, we always instruct the PM to solve it immediately - we just want happy tenants.

Tenant visited the PM this week and verbally told PM that they would be vacating in 3 to 5 weeks as their new house was nearing completion (we also doubt the new house reason as they have been tenants for over 15 months). The PM advised them that they would have to give notice in writing and that they would be responsible for 2 weeks rent from that date (they are on a periodic lease).

The tenant started ranting and raving and said the PM wasn't flexible. The tenant wanted to give verbal notice of 3 to 5 weeks. The PM pointed them to the lease agreement which was there to protect all parties. The PM and us are getting tired of always "giving in" to the tenant and an attempt to keep them happy. It takes both parties (i.e. landlord and tenant) to develop a good relationship. We feel that our good intentions have never been reciporcated.

Both the PM and us are expecting some issues over the coming weeks. We will look for another tenant (well, the PM will), and we will start all over again.

KieranK

 

[geoffw]

I had a unit where the tenant said they had to break in because they had locked themselves out. They paid the damage, but...

the glass was lying on the OUTSIDE of the unit.

The story of a domestic fight inside the unit fitted the evidence better, and was just one of an armful of reasons to remove the (young party girl) tenant.

 

[crest133]

Dear Paul
In NSW the landlord is responsible for providing premises to lockup stage, so the landlord is responsible for the immediate cost of returning the premises to that stage. Later, you can work out whose insurance to claim against. For damage to the inside and outside of the house, you usually claim on your insurance as the landlord. Damage to tenant's goods and possessions is the tenant's problem. Landlord must take immediate steps to arrange immediate repairs to locks and windows and doors etc. Tenant or agent should do the same if they can't contact the owner immediately. In any case, it must be done immediately and cost cutting is not an acceptable excuse for delay in providing tenants with lockup "secure" premises. Tenants contents insurance pays for their stolen/damaged goods. Your insurance pays for everything else.
good luck.


Hi all

Just a quick question about break-in damage and who should pay.

I've just received an email from my PM stating that the tenant has reported an attempted break-in. The only damage was a smashed window at the front of the house. They (the PM) have apparently arranged for the window to be fixed immediately and have requested details of my insurance policy to arrange a claim.

Has anyone come across this before?? I would have thought that it was the tenant's responsibility to sort this.....in fact, someone tried to break in to a property that myself and my wife were renting a few years ago in Melbourne. The lock on the front door was damaged and we didn't even think about asking the landlord to pay for it we just organised and paid for everything ourselves.

Can anyone shed any light on this by relating a similar experience.

Any replies gratefully received.

Thanks
Paul[/QUOTE]

 

[crest133]

Good time for an inspection by the PM, a real thorough one with photos, just to provide pictures for readvertising the property for prospective new tenants of course. Gives the PM time to note and order any other repairs, and prepare the property for reletting with minimum delay. Also good idea to ask for the forwarding address - for the bond refund of course , provided all's well - all helps remind the tenant they are responsible for the property, and the condition of it is noted and fixed at date of inspection.
Insist on proper written notice, with set day of vacant possession, otherwise uncommitted outbound tenant experiences delay with new house, stays longer, and you lose inbound tenant or worse - he may demand compensation for you breaking the new already signed lease forcing him to stay in a 5 star motel while he waits.
good luck

We had a window broken in one of our IPs about a year ago. The tenant said one of the teenage kids tried to open the window but it was struck. The kid's hand slipped and went thru the glass - had to go to hospital to get stiches. Tenant phoned PM and glass was replaced immediately (I understand this is the law).

PM phoned us and we weren't happy. It was our suspicion that the tenant's three teenage boys were mucking around in the room and one of them put their arm thru the glass. Main reason for the suspicion - we painted the inside of the IP about 6 months earlier and all windows opened OK - since the glass has been replaced, the tenant has not complained about the "strucked" window. Replacing the glass cost me $80 - we decided it was really worth the effort pursuing. I guess the tenant thought they had "won". Whenever the tenant raises an issue, we always instruct the PM to solve it immediately - we just want happy tenants.

Tenant visited the PM this week and verbally told PM that they would be vacating in 3 to 5 weeks as their new house was nearing completion (we also doubt the new house reason as they have been tenants for over 15 months). The PM advised them that they would have to give notice in writing and that they would be responsible for 2 weeks rent from that date (they are on a periodic lease).

The tenant started ranting and raving and said the PM wasn't flexible. The tenant wanted to give verbal notice of 3 to 5 weeks. The PM pointed them to the lease agreement which was there to protect all parties. The PM and us are getting tired of always "giving in" to the tenant and an attempt to keep them happy. It takes both parties (i.e. landlord and tenant) to develop a good relationship. We feel that our good intentions have never been reciporcated.

Both the PM and us are expecting some issues over the coming weeks. We will look for another tenant (well, the PM will), and we will start all over again.

KieranK

 

[liverpoolharryk]

I'm in Brisbane and if a window was broken due to a break in it must be reported to the police for the insurance company records when claiming. This is the landlords responsibility. Generally there is an excess whch our glass company actually pays for.
If it was not reported to the police and the tenant stills claims it was an attempted break in then we try to get the excess out of them. The RTA are not real helpful in these situations and usaually the tenants will win if they refuse to pay. Without actually witnessing the fact it is very hard to prove.

Just one small part of the joys of being a landlord I guess.


Jarrod Lane
Jarrod Lane real Estate

 

[Lplate]

As lessors we really need to find ways to encourage the tenant to be responsible for the property.

A friend told me that in the UK/US(?) lessors give preference to tenants with tenant insurance – I was sent this excerpt from an insurance product for tenants:

….policies are designed to indemnify (cover your loss) you in the event of a covered loss to your personal property and protect you in the event you are responsible for bodily injury or property damage to others. It is available for apartments, rented house, condo, co-ops, dormitories, and roommate arrangements. It has been estimated 75% of Renter's do not have coverage. Most homeowners HAVE TO. More and more landlords are requiring Renter's Insurance as a condition to rent.

Maybe a proactive insurer company is already offering something like this here???

 

[sbe]

I just had a call from the PM over the weekend - broken window. (Apparently rock / stone through it)

Knowing the tenant - it's legit.

So, I had the window fixed immediately, no charge.

Often, you'll know by the tenant if it's legit, or a story.

Cheerio.

Simon.

ps. May get roller shutters for front windows now. Would help with road noise, security and rocks......

 

[Peter_Tersteeg]

As I understand it, if you make a claim to your insurance company, they will requrest a police report. If a tenant made a similar claim on one of my properties by refused to file a police report, I'd refuse to foot the bill.

If the claim was legit, I'd be trying to get my insurance to cover it. I'd happily pay the excess and take reasonable steps to make my tenants feel safe inside their home. Doing this sends a message. 1. To the tenants that you'll take care of them if they do the right thing. 2. To the managing agent that you'll do the right thing and make their job easier if you have quality tenants.

 

[sbe]

ps. Tenant did file a police report.

 

[BUNDY]

In Qld, the windows are part of the structure of the dwelling and as such are covered under building insurance - if you have it. The tenant (if the have any brains) should have their own contents insurance.

If the tenant breaks the window on purpose or through a domestic, they are responsible for the repair. (if they hang around and don't do the runner on you). If they have done the runner on you, you must report it to the police as a wilful damage. Then inform your insurance company to have the window fixed. Police can then interview your tenant - when they find them, if sufficient evidence, charge them and seek restitution for the cost of the repair through the courts.

If someone broke it in an attempt to break in or just purposely threw a rock through it, then that is a criminal offence of wilful damage and as previously stated, a police report will be required to claim on your insurance. Police will only take a report if there is a criminal offence involved.

If the glass has smashed inwards - majority has fallen into the house, then quite often it is from an attempted break in/wilful damage by another party other than the tenant. If the glass has mainly fallen outside the dwelling then I'd be looking at it being the tenants responsibility.

Hope this helps

Cheers
BUNDY