Why are so many on this forum against property?

[Dan_p]

Do some of the people on this forum who seem to be against property investment have ulterior motives?

I made my first real estate investment 4 years ago and now I have 3 properties, this was after quite a few failed attempts to get my first property. Most of the views I have read on this forum are extremely helpful and I appreciate people who have achieved through property are willing to answer questions and give good advice.

What concerns me is I have been reading through so many forums on here and I have noticed a bit of a trend with a few people stating how terrible it is to invest in property. Things like your better off renting, or housing prices are going to crash.

There also seems to be quite a few people around who continually label housing as being 'un-affordable' I believe this particular term should not even exist, it is a very negative term.

There is so much good information on here from people who have pushed through all of the doom and gloom attitudes and made it, and for newer investors this is who I want to be learning from. Some to me seem to be trying to promote fear in investing in property. This can be harmful to first home buyers who are coming on here determining whether to rent or buy. I can see some people becoming life time renters following some bad advice.

I guess what I am trying to say, some of these people on this forum who appear to be against property are they trying to influence people not to invest for the wrong reasons?

 

[BuildingBlocks]

Just need to filter through the dirt to find the gold nuggets

I don't know why some people who don't have a good word to say about property in Australia still keep coming back here to post though.

I don't knit, so I don't hang out on knitting forums!

 

[mrsdawnrazor]

I don't think most people on here are against property per se, its just differences of opinion as to what is happening in the market and the best strategies to use to address this. So some may think buy now when prices are coming off, others may think sell and wait and buy later, others may choose to wait it out or even invest in a different class.

It is only with hindsight that we will know who is right and maybe they all will be depending on different situations and circumstances, but one thing for sure is that we will never all agree and that is what makes this place so interesting.

 

[wylie]

Hi mrsdawnrazor. I know this is off topic, but I ALWAYS wonder about your avatar. Who is that (hopefully it is not YOU )?

Back on topic..... I like the knitting analogy .

I don't mind a bit of friendly discussion but when it gets personal and people continually tell everybody who will listen that the sky is falling, I just find it annoying.

What is even worse is the personal attacks and the "when prices crash, I'll be laughing at all of you when you are sitting in the gutter with no money left" type comments.

Maybe if that "other" site was still open, they would all be over there instead of here annoying us .

 

[mrsdawnrazor]

Hi Wylie

No not me - Sadly - a remnant of my youth. Its Axl Rose, the lead singer of Guns N Roses

 

[Belbo]

Do some of the people on this forum who seem to be against property investment have ulterior motives?
....
Are they trying to influence people not to invest for the wrong reasons?

A very interesting question.

There appears to me two types of 'questioners' here as far as I can see: (1) Those that like property, but are voicing caution in what they see as uncertain times; and (2) Those that just pretend to like property to get an audience here.

The latter might been seen simply as seeking attention, because foretelling doom has the beauty of being both intrinsically provocative in such a forum and yet perpetually unfalsifiable. This is where following the dictum, 'pursue the argument and not the person' serves them so very well. But precisely because of this I think the 'attention seeking' assessment is too generous a reading of the underlying motive.

What is the real underlying motive?

I believe it's a thing called narcissistic personality disorder, involving (among other things) the need to constantly cause others displeasure to reaffirm one's own sense of superiority. This is essential for the narcissist to feel pleasure, because the narcissist does not share in the normal human capacity to feel pleased when others express contentment.

There is only one correct response to this disorder: Ignore the person.

 

[Bargain Hunter]

There is only one correct response to this disorder: Ignore the person.

On this note. I have previously used my ignore button to filter out persons who's opinions I did not value but I found it difficult to follow the thread.

There is certainly an element of anti-property sentiment on the forum but the majority of posters are just looking to share their experiences and help others.

 

[Dan_p]

I dont mind people having different opinions, its always to good to have the pro's and con's. So long as they are constructive.

The things I don't like are people going out of their way to prove owning a home cannot be achieved. People saying property is not affordable, when clearly it is, people just need to buy where and what they can afford.

I am wondering why these few people are trying to deter people from investing in property, can i be out of genuine concern for your financial welfare or because they want you to invest somewhere else for whatever reason.

 

[Dan_p]

A very interesting question.

There appears to me two types of 'questioners' here as far as I can see: (1) Those that like property, but are voicing caution in what they see as uncertain times; and (2) Those that just pretend to like property to get an audience here.


I believe it's a thing called narcissistic personality disorder, involving (among other things) the need to constantly cause others displeasure to reaffirm one's own sense of superiority. This is essential for the narcissist to feel pleasure, because the narcissist does not share in the normal human capacity to feel pleased when others express contentment.

There is only one correct response to this disorder: Ignore the person.

Hi Belbo, thanks for the response,

This is exactly what I am talking about. Its a bit disappointing. I like to take most people's opinions with good faith but some are trying to bring people down.

I am only fairly new on this site and it is terrific. Personally I get told enough through family, friends and certain colleagues about what cannot be done. I really like the I can do attitude on here.

It can be difficult early on who's advice is good and who's to ignore. I can see most are excellent.

 

[mrsdawnrazor]

When some people think they are right they believe it is their responsibility, nay their duty, to:

1. tell everyone else as they have 'the answer'
2. Argue the point until they are blue in the face
3. Keep going because they are right and it is so 'simple - why cant you see it guys?"
4. Get really annoyed when other points are put
5. Revert to the 'I know better than you do"

It is a shame debating is not taught more in schools

 

[Dan_p]

Actually there was one more type I have noticed. It is the pre first home buyer saying houses are un-affordable. Do you think when they buy their first home they will not want its value to go up?

 

[Rockstar]

Dan and nan,

If you avoid the areas of the forum where intellectual debate is commonplace - like market economics - you will probably stay away from most of the negative types. Hang out in the more practical areas that you can help and be helped in - then you will have a more positive experience.

 

[Belbo]

Actually there was one more type I have noticed. It is the pre first home buyer saying houses are un-affordable. Do you think when they buy their first home they will not want its value to go up?

Naturally FHBs want their first home's price to go up, but is it the end of their world if it doesn't immediately?

But that's not the point of the 'Affordability Critique'.

Aspiring FHBs are aspiring to own precisely because they don't accept its basic tenet: That there's something wrong about wanting to own property at these prices.

Pre-FHBs, as you call them, or renters as I call them, are complaining about the affordability of rents (or more accurately, their advocates are).

This is, I think, the real well-spring - or, more accurately, the emotional heartland - for the current 'affordability critique'. (After all, you can only escape rising rental costs by purchasing your first home, right?)

So, what makes rents go up? Demand vs supply, of course. Who's to blame for lack of supply? The suppliers of rental properties! (That is what the 'affordability critique' would have you believe.)

The affordability critique is, I repeat, a hoax. It's the politics of envy dressed up as social conscience, designed to confuse people into accepting that it isn't overbloated bureaucratism sucking the lifeblood out of the residential building supply industry and indefinitely deferring essential investment in modern public transport infrastructure.

And the narcissists, I am suggesting, promulgate that critique in disguised form here for their own personal psychotic satisfaction!

 

[Sunfish]

Do some of the people on this forum who seem to be against property investment have ulterior motives?

Not sure if it was Dan or Nan who made this post but I notice just 26 posts between them.

Here is another thing I've noticed of late: Starry-eyed newcomers objecting to diversity of opinion.

What ya sees is what ya gets. Live with it. LOL

 

[Dan_p]

I don't knit, so I don't hang out on knitting forums!

Neither do I.

I just wonder if some people are trying to sway others to invest in things like shares or silver. Would they have anything to gain by encouraging people to invest in other things compared to property.

I think in long term decent property couldn't really go down. It is interesting as well. Populations are exponentially increasing, only certain amount of land is being released. People have to live somewhere, so when people say the bubble will burst, I dont know how. If capital growth goes down surely the rent would be enough to hold your asset until the values start going up again. I could be wrong, it has happened once before.

Not saying that other investments are a bad idea, but this is a forum for property investors.

 

[Dan_p]

Not sure if it was Dan or Nan who made this post but I notice just 26 posts between them.

Here is another thing I've noticed of late: Starry-eyed newcomers objecting to diversity of opinion.

What ya sees is what ya gets. Live with it. LOL

Its Dan,

I like the difference of opinion, I am just trying to work out if some of the posts are being deliberately misleading.

I am starry-eyed and learning a lot from the experienced people here. I want to learn from the experienced people with good intentions.

 

[Rolf Latham]

I am starry-eyed and learning a lot from the experienced people here. I want to learn from the experienced people with good intentions.

Hi Dan

Many ( id personally go so far as to say most) of the "negative" posters do indeed have good intentions, and some even have the experience, good and bad.

They dont post to hurt you, nor the forum community, indeed they post their opinion and feelings to protect you, much like a relative, or a friend may want to protect you from a new business venture.

Your mission, as they teach my kids in yr4 at school, is trying to decipher for YOU ( using your filters and sunglasses) what is a "credible" source of info and what isnt.

Neither pro or anti property sentiment is a clear indicator of cred

ta
rolf


ta

rolf

 

[wobbycarly]

Naturally FHBs want their first home's price to go up, but is it the end of their world if it doesn't immediately?

But that's not the point of the 'Affordability Critique'.

Aspiring FHBs are aspiring to own precisely because they don't accept its basic tenet: That there's something wrong about wanting to own property at these prices.

Pre-FHBs, as you call them, or renters as I call them, are complaining about the affordability of rents (or more accurately, their advocates are).

This is, I think, the real well-spring - or, more accurately, the emotional heartland - for the current 'affordability critique'. (After all, you can only escape rising rental costs by purchasing your first home, right?)

So, what makes rents go up? Demand vs supply, of course. Who's to blame for lack of supply? The suppliers of rental properties! (That is what the 'affordability critique' would have you believe.)

The affordability critique is, I repeat, a hoax. It's the politics of envy dressed up as social conscience, designed to confuse people into accepting that it isn't overbloated bureaucratism sucking the lifeblood out of the residential building supply industry and indefinitely deferring essential investment in modern public transport infrastructure.

And the narcissists, I am suggesting, promulgate that critique in disguised form here for their own personal psychotic satisfaction!

I thought I was sucker for format/punctuation overkill, but this post wins the gold star for the week! The only items missing are the semicolon and embedded parentheses.

 

[Rolf Latham]

I thought I was sucker for format/punctuation overkill, but this post wins the gold star for the week! The only items missing are the semicolon and embedded parentheses.

there are others that dont know what a full stop or a paragraph look like : )

ta
rolf

 

[BuildingBlocks]

I just wonder if some people are trying to sway others to invest in things like shares or silver. Would they have anything to gain by encouraging people to invest in other things compared to property.

There are a few that plug the metals and shares, but I haven't got the vibe that they are trying to profit by luring others into those areas.