Zero Percent Interest Rate - Steve Keen

you should be using these lower IR times to pay the same amount or slightly more to reduce the capital component of your debt.

lower IRs = better yields on property, but if inflationary pressure on IRs is on the horizon then buying a property while money is expensive may have the same outcome as buying a property when IRs are on the way down or nearly at their historic lows.

outcome? buy!
 
Boom, to be precise - mother of all property booms is right on your door step. Check your sight.

I have been thinking that this has to be true. If Keen is right, and interest rates even fall to 4%, there has to be a massive boom.

Regardsless of the Global bust, it's always the more saavy investors that buy when it is not the trend...like now for instance.......and it takes a couple of years for everyone else to catch on that properties are actually rising in value. The sheep jump in and the prices go beserk because evryone is so happy the recession is over and property is going beserk and everyone wonders what the hell they were thinking, that the sky didn't fall!:eek::eek::D

Regards JO'
 
Main message I keep getting from Steve Keen and the 60 minutes program last night is "get rid of debt".
If that's the message that mainstream media are running then that's great!

One thing is certain out of the current financial market meltdown, and that is that credit is going to be harder to come by as banks themselves de-leverage. They are going to have to embark on some serious capital raisings to sort out their own balance sheets. Alternatively, they can just wait for punters to divest their assets and reduce their debt. Either way, the banks improve their balance sheets.

I'd like a heap of punters to dive out of property as this would improve bank balance sheets and make it easier for me to get in line for credit. Additionally, it might put some short term downward pressure on prices which could be a nice bonus at a time of low interest rates and massive under-supply of housing.

The more I read, the more I sense a huge turning of the tide in favour of property investors in the medium term in Australia. Short term there will still be some jitters, but the stars are starting to align.

Cheers,
Michael

PS I've spoken to the organisation I want to tender my Mona Vale MUH development and agreed a Feb-09 tender date is looking good now. Rates continuing to ease are the big clincher. That development yields 6.8% fully let upon completion. Pretty soon that will beat the prevailing bank interest rates so willl be CF+. By developing it, I will also improve my LVR by building in all that equity. Just got to get pre-approval for the >$1M lend to construct before I spend the money tendering and doing CC. Watch this space.
 
What I find so frustrating/annoying/contradicting is that 6 months ago interest rates were beeing hiked to slow down the economy.

Now we are furiously dropping them to speed it up.
Keen saaw this coming, so why the heck did the rates keep going up?

The question is:

Did rates go up so that WE COULD BRING THEM DOWN??????? Think about it.:eek:

Regards JO
 
the banks aren't lending as much now and are suddenly finding themselves awash with depositors funds that they have to pay interest on. I think the next step will be for a big drop in the interest rate on deposits which will have interesting ramifications
 
? Keen saw this coming? what part exactly that when rates go up they eventually come down?

The RBA could not have factored in the external situation deteriorating the way it did. Further more what is occurring now from an Australian perspective has more to do with sentiment than anything else.

If we were all issued with crystal balls like the one apparently Keen has (must have been a bit foggy when he bought and tried to sell his own house) then we could have stopped raising rates earlier. But since we dont, the RBA operates on the information it has at the time.

we are such a bunch of whiners and for a developer to defend the RBA on rate rises thats saying a lot to how over this dribble many of us all are.



What I find so frustrating/annoying/contradicting is that 6 months ago interest rates were beeing hiked to slow down the economy.

Now we are furiously dropping them to speed it up.
Keen saaw this coming, so why the heck did the rates keep going up?

The question is:

Did rates go up so that WE COULD BRING THEM DOWN??????? Think about it.:eek:

Regards JO
 
? Keen saw this coming? what part exactly that when rates go up they eventually come down?

The RBA could not have factored in the external situation deteriorating the way it did. Further more what is occurring now from an Australian perspective has more to do with sentiment than anything else.

If we were all issued with crystal balls like the one apparently Keen has (must have been a bit foggy when he bought and tried to sell his own house) then we could have stopped raising rates earlier. But since we dont, the RBA operates on the information it has at the time.

we are such a bunch of whiners and for a developer to defend the RBA on rate rises thats saying a lot to how over this dribble many of us all are.

Should have clarified, sorry- the supposed "recession". Not the rates thing. My typing can't keep up with my thinking.

I guess we a re whiners, but I prefer to think of it as debating/conversation with people we cannot otherwise find in our actual lives.


Regards JO
 
good reply, i take back the tone of my original post.

although i would like to add the RBA raising rate is designed to slow the economy ideally for a soft landing, worse a recession and worse case a depression. So predicting a slow down/recession is like predicting the inevitable i.e. doesnt take much foresight.

Also Keen never purported a recession he has been claiming depression.. think his words were to the effect best case deep recession worst case deep depression. Taking the middle-ground he is purporting "depression".

Should have clarified, sorry- the supposed "recession". Not the rates thing. My typing can't keep up with my thinking.

I guess we a re whiners, but I prefer to think of it as debating/conversation with people we cannot otherwise find in our actual lives.


Regards JO
 
If that's the message that mainstream media are running then that's great!

One thing is certain out of the current financial market meltdown, and that is that credit is going to be harder to come by as banks themselves de-leverage. They are going to have to embark on some serious capital raisings to sort out their own balance sheets. Alternatively, they can just wait for punters to divest their assets and reduce their debt. Either way, the banks improve their balance sheets.

I'd like a heap of punters to dive out of property as this would improve bank balance sheets and make it easier for me to get in line for credit. Additionally, it might put some short term downward pressure on prices which could be a nice bonus at a time of low interest rates and massive under-supply of housing.

The more I read, the more I sense a huge turning of the tide in favour of property investors in the medium term in Australia. Short term there will still be some jitters, but the stars are starting to align.
Divest asset and pay off the debt is the key factor of the credit crunch and it is the worst and scary outcome because that will cause deflation and destruction of money. Because of Fractional lending every time you make a loan banks create money, every time you pay off the debt you destroy money. Banks are going to really struggle and run out of reserve money if investor will stop making loans (and a corrispondent deposit as a consequence of the loan). This is a bit of complicated banking stuff may be someone can give a link to explain it.
 
Boz,

I'm assuming that the Punters running for the hills will be the ones with too much leverage so they can't afford to hold. Therefore, their selling actually does improve the banks balance sheets as the amount of lend per asset they have a claim over is reduced, and the banks LVR is improved. Of course, their level of total lend goes down, but at the moment banks are actually preferring strong balance sheets over too much leverage for income.

But I'm no expert, maybe that link would help...

Cheers,
Michael
 
Divest asset and pay off the debt is the key factor of the credit crunch and it is the worst and scary outcome because that will cause deflation and destruction of money. Because of Fractional lending every time you make a loan banks create money, every time you pay off the debt you destroy money. Banks are going to really struggle and run out of reserve money if investor will stop making loans (and a corrispondent deposit as a consequence of the loan). This is a bit of complicated banking stuff may be someone can give a link to explain it.

The paradox of Thrift
 
What I find so frustrating/annoying/contradicting is that 6 months ago interest rates were beeing hiked to slow down the economy.

Now we are furiously dropping them to speed it up.
Keen saaw this coming, so why the heck did the rates keep going up?

The question is:

Did rates go up so that WE COULD BRING THEM DOWN??????? Think about it.:eek:

Regards JO
***************************

... and so that ASX can be volatile and more monies to be made there?

I believe that key is lack of foresight or/and "inaccurate" professional judgement or/and a "mis-calculation" regarding the extent of the global Credit Crunch Crisis and its attendant ill-effects on the Australian Economy, largely on the part of the Kevin Rudd's ALP Government as well as the RBA to a certain extent.


Cheers,
Kenneth KOH
 
Doomsayer gets instant fame

Steve Keen

Doomsayer gets instant fame

Gerard Henderson
October 21, 2008
Page 1 of 2 | Single page

Photo: John Shakespeare
Advertisement

It had to happen. In the international financial crisis, it was always likely the cult of celebrity would merge with that of economic doomsayer. In Australia the leading doom-celeb is none other than Steve Keen, the associate professor of economics and finance at the University of Western Sydney.

What a month it has been for Professor Keen. In late September he was photographed in The Daily Telegraph along with his partner, Melina Forrest. He, looking at the camera, clad in a white T-shirt with a blue patch on which was printed a quote from the economist John Maynard Keynes. She, standing close and looking admiringly into his eyes.

It's not often that a middle-aged academic from a suburban university receives such coverage in the popular press. How did he get there? By predicting another Great Depression, like the one that devastated the Western world in the 1930s, that's how.

The immediate justification for the story was the announcement Keen had decided to sell his apartment in inner-city Sydney. There was even a touch of lament as the associate professor explained his reasoning to the avid reporter: "It breaks my heart. But I don't want to live my old age in poverty and there's no point in paying a mortgage on an asset that is going to fall by 40 per cent or so in the next few years."

You wonder precisely why this doom-celeb believes it is a good idea to advise potential buyers of his abode that any such purchase will decline in value by 40 per cent in but a few years. Perhaps he is not such a fatalist, after all.

Or, perhaps, he likes the media attention which he would not have received if he had predicted a recession (rather than a depression) with housing prices declining by, say, only 20 per cent. To receive maximum coverage, doom-celebs need to err on the side of hyperbole.

On Sunday night I learnt of Keen's forthcoming appearance on 60 Minutes by a Channel Nine promo which announced his prediction of a depression accompanied by "at least a 10 to 15 per cent level of unemployment".

The program titled "The Big Bust" certainly lived up to its heading. Presenter Liz Hayes referred to the current looming economic downturn as "the worst financial crisis the world has seen". It seems that she overlooked the Great Depression when, in Australia, unemployment rose to 30 per cent of the essentially male workforce.

Soon the sage shifted to Keen's domestic arrangements. Hayes reported that "he hasn't found a buyer yet" for his home but she seemed impressed he had put his property where his mouth was, so to speak. So much so that the presenter saw a lesson in such behaviour for 60 Minutes viewers, commenting: "It says a lot when you, the economist, decides that you have got to sell." Hayes then asked: "Is that something we should all be doing?" The answer was broadly in the affirmative.

Hayes' reference to Keen as "the economist" was revealing. It is true that he was the only economist heard in that part of the program which covered the Australian economy. However, many economists would take a less alarmist view of the Australian - and even the American - economy. For example, on 60 Minutes, Keen prophesised a depression lasting "about 10 years". Whereas the American economist Jason Weisberg predicted a world recession (not depression) and maintained that it would be "not long-lived".

In between his Daily Telegraph star coverage and his star billing on 60 Minutes, Keen was interviewed by the 7.30 Report's Kerry O'Brien on ABC 1. A Google search reveals Keen invariably receives soft interviews on the ABC and is rarely, if ever, subjected to a debate where another qualified economist can test his seeming hyperbole. Keen ran his familiar lines to O'Brien, except that he notched up his estimate of looming unemployment to 20 per cent. In Keen-speak that's not adding hyperbole, just rounding up.

The following evening, O'Brien interviewed Kevin Rudd. Instead of positing his own questions, the 7.30 Report presenter asked the Prime Minister to respond to Keen's views. It was as if Australia's leading doom-celeb is the only economist worth hearing.

On no fewer than three occasions, O'Brien asked Rudd about Keen's predictions that there will be a marked fall in property values. Not unexpectedly, the Prime Minister made it known that he was not in the business of providing predictions "about where house prices are going".

Put simply, Keen does not approve of debt. His predictions of a debt-induced decade-long depression, with home prices reduced by 40 per cent and unemployment rising to up to 20 per cent, may be correct.

But this doom-celeb's soothsaying may prove to be wrong. In which case The Daily Telegraph, 60 Minutes and The 7.30 Report will have run Keen's views virtually without challenge.

Keen has been able to get away with the view that there is something inevitable about the coming of a 1930s-style Great Depression. This overlooks the fact that governments can take decisions which may alleviate increases in unemployment or falls in property prices. Despite Keen's economic determinism, there is little that is inevitable about economics. The Australian media would be well advised to be more sceptical about economists with messages on their (fashionable) T-shirts.
 
Very well written. Even those that support Keen must agree that there has been no countervailing position, he has not been put to debate against another economist and his views have been taken as gospel by media.

I wont say much more as this topic always starts a bit of a (b*tch fest) however I am please to see some journos are starting to stand up and at the very least propose the theory... keen might be wrong? and asking is he more celebronomist than economist.

Also it shouldn't be missed that keen is all over the place with his predictions... "at least 20%" for house price falls? what happened to 40%? 10-15% unemployment? last week it was 20%? thats a spread of 10%??

I think keen is more about opinionated commentary and trash economics than sound theory. I think its all got to his head.

 
This is just another example of giving one media story credibility because it aligns with our existing beliefs while bagging others that dont.

You guys have to stop trying to stay in your comfort zones in this manner (and others). It might make you feel warm and fuzzy inside but doesn't get you far.

In fact could get you in more financial trouble than taking on board S Keens predictions or at least acknowledging them.
 
Very well written. Even those that support Keen must agree that there has been no countervailing position, he has not been put to debate against another economist and his views have been taken as gospel by media.

Agree....where is the debate....?....No where except on here....which is apparently no allowed by some here.....:rolleyes:
 
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