20 reasons to date a doctor
- Thread starter devank
- Start date
The operative words are:sorry...just had to
"scheme of things",
and China used; "unimportant".
Totally different words and connotations.
you guess wrong, a "A top level degree holding nurse working a standard 9-5 week from Monday to Friday" in WA earns $138175.
note below figures do not include an overtime or loading etc. Eg Sunday loading is 75%.
http://www.nursing.health.wa.gov.au/docs/working/wages.pdf
I have enormous respect for the work nurses do and i always felt they used to be underpaid but i think theyre on a pretty good wage now.
I think BV means after about 8 or 9 years you're at the top of your increments and will then earn 80K as a level 1. To earn your increments you need to be full time.
Those higher level nurses are often restricted when it come to shiftwork and penalties because they usually work Mon to Fri and the managers usually choose to give the overtime to levels 1 and EN's as a first priority. Some won't go after a promotion for this reason.
I've know EN's to earn 130K and level 1 RN's 150K+ quite easily if they're prepared to work overtime.
china, it wouldn't be that hard to earn a similar amount to what some doctors earn, if you tried.
I agree.
The public hospital system is filled with inefficiencies, lack of productivity - long waiting lists, long emergency department waiting times, bungled treatments and so forth. Contrary to popular beliefs of inadequate numbers of nurses and overworked nurses, the nursing union and the culture of absolute laziness and mediocrity this union perpetuates is a major factor accountable for public health system failures. As an example, when the nursing union campaigns for better patient to nurse ratios, it has nothing to do with patient safety but everything to do with working less for more pay. It is very hard to deal with unionised workforce and our public health system is all the worse for it. We have blue collar workers demanding better remuneration than white collar workers and masquerading as university trained professionals.
Nursing practices in this country went down the drain when pseudo-university courses were introduced and an aversion to emptying bed pans was developed.
I think we need to strong leadership in our public health system, something akin to what happened when Qantas CEO confronted his unionised workforce.
I agree with you.
There are lots of pros to the job, on top of the decent wages as well. Personally I think a lot of the negative stuff stems from the unions - every 3 to 4 years the public gets bombarded with how terrible things are and people believe it.
Take nurses with young children that work part time and don't like to use childcare... they love those rubbish hours because the other parent can look after the children while they earn a decent income working few hours only. They think the hours are great and couldn't do the same with many other degrees.
You want flexibility and a high hourly rate... work for the agency.
Travel... no problem. Sign up with an agency in most countries/states and off you go.
I dont have in depth knowledge re this subject from a doctors or nurses POV but i think you're drawing a rather long bow here. As someoen who had family in and out of the hospital for much of 2012 i found the level of care to be pretty impressive actually. To the point that despite having absolute top private cover we chose to go to the public hospital and even our specialistwho is highly regarded recommended it.
Id also disagree with you referring to nurses as blue collar workers
I tend to agree with you more re Qantas and unions in general though, especially the CFMEU and MUA. They are both a bloody disgrace and the rest of Australia is paying for their lack of efficiency and outright thuggery
I think we all need to be thankful there will always be people willing to work for the love of their job or vocation and not the money they earn. Imagine if all teachers, policemen/women, nurses, ambos etc etc went and drove trucks in the mines for double the money? We'd probably value those jobs a bit more once there was no-one doing them.
But there will always be people doing them. So that doesn't make sense.
I admire the decisive stand taken by Qantas CEO against militant obstructive unions. It would have taken a lot of guts and he would have been under immense pressure. There should be more like him in the health system.
Procedures and systems are not put in place by the nurses or doctors on the floor. They are put in place by the administrators/executive level staff.
For the most part, all hospitals run well and provide good care. Can they be run better? Absolutely, but like all hospitals, dollars are limited, everything takes time to decide upon and implement.
All levels of staff can make a mistake, and I've even seen a doctor in an ICU pull an arterial-line out of a patient's arm (in ICU), and take it to the basin to give it a bit of a wash, so he could use it again.
Fortunately the NUM saw him, stopped him and reported him. So don't talk to me/us about untrained nurses.
Part of the problem of long waiting times at hospitals is due to staff levels - both doctors and nurses. The reasons can range from nurses not available to work, and the respective ward/department can't get any agency staff to fill the gap, and doctors not being available. Less staff to care, less beds can be used for patients.....so they wait.
I recently had to have a hernia re-repair done (why was the first one not a success and needed another go? - surgeons are not infallible), and I had to go for a follow-up appointment with the surgeon at his rooms.
After a 45 minute wait to be seen, I walked out without being seen - whose fault is that long waiting time?
Another reason for long waits (in ER's) is folk using the ER as a doctor's clinic because their GP doesn't bulk bill anymore.
And finally; cost of running the facility.
So far from accurate it's laughable.
Most nurses simply go to work, do their shift and go home; they are not out campaigning and being a militant unionist. Thank god for the ones who do though, otherwise you'd have 1 to 10 patients per nurse and so on.
As usual; you take a minor stat in an argument, and make it the only stat.
My wife has been a nurse in both the public and private hospital system virtually all over Melbourne for approx 20 years, and at Cedars-Sinai Hospital in Beverly Hills, L.A for 2 years, and a further 12 months at the Santa Rosa Public Hospital in CA.
She can vouch that the level of care in many Private Hospitals is no better, and sometimes worse than a public Hospital. Why? Dollars.
Also, the attitutes and work ethics of people doesn't improve just because their employer is a goverment body, or a privvate corporation - in any walk of life. So; dud nurses and doctors will be evident in a private hospital too. As long as no-one dies, they can plod along flying under the radar, being useless forever.
Private Hospitals are a business that needs to be profitable, so costs have to be trimmed, and this often happens with less staff. Many times my wife has been an anesthetic nurse in a private hospital, and had to double as the scout and so on. I won't name names, but a well known hospital where many famous celebrities go to is one of them.
I've also worked in the Frankston Public Hospital for 3 years as a nurses assistant. We had many private patients in that Unit; transferred from a Private Hospital not geared for their level of care.
For the large majority of nurses; they are caring, dedicated and do their absolute best to provide good patient care.
Yes, there are deadwood and clock-watcher elements, but that applies to any job on the planet - and both genders, and all ages.
They are not psuedo, and they haven't "gone down the drain" and now you are insulting nurses (and nurses assistants) everywhere who have to clean up vomit, spit, urine, diarrhea on a daily basis.
When I was in the ICU we had patients who were tubed and on liquid feed diets who needed total bed changes every couple of hours, because they were swimming in malena (blood saturated liquid poo). Who do you reckon cleaned it up...doctors? No; me and the nurse.
But I will agree with you about this aspect; the "on the job" training which nurses used to have should be re-introduced. Many nurses hit the floor and are floundering; their time manangement skills aren't developed, so they are less efficient than yer 10 year nurse.
Again; totally mis-informed and inaccurate.
Once patient/nurse ratios go above 1 to 4, the nurse cannot possibly offer the best level care. It is simply impossible from a time point of view; paperwork, hourly obs, and so on.
Add to this; discussions with concerned relatives, a new nurse who hasn't got a good level of time management skill, low awareness of where equipment and storage are located - all time wasters, and you have a potential disaster.
You clearly have a very low view of nurses, and god help any that have to help you perform your job - if you ever become a $2mill per year specialist, or worse; just an ordinary public/private system surgeon only making a decent wage - then you really would be hard work..
Incidentally; I just showed your post to my wife - I can't repeat what she said and not get slapped over the wrists by the mods...again.
Thanks.
IMO nurses are on the low side of fair wages.
A specialist nurse on the top rate would have 10-20 years of experience, a masters and probably a PHD. They would be far more competent than a junior doc in their field.
A little bit of humour - I know a nurse who works in dialysis. When asked what he does for a living he says he takes the pisss out of people.
A specialist nurse is still just a nurse and would earn according to the level they applied for and got (most higher level nurses having neither a masters and/or PHD), but I agree that if you're experienced in a specific area you are more knowledgable than the junior doctor or medical officer who hasn't done/completed specialty training.
BayView said:
Considering he looks down on every other job except cataract-surgeon specialists (apparently), I would think he would have great difficulty finding and keeping a date.
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I have the greatest respect for nurses. They are experienced, work with the patients and medication firsthand and are the first people to be informed if any prescribed medication or procedure goes awry. They also have to keep a careful eye on symptoms and report to the attending doctor.
Some of the senior nurses have more on-the-job knowledge than any fresh-faced new medical doctor graduate with aspirations of endless cataract surgeries and a swimming pool filled with $100 notes.
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