20 reasons to date a doctor

[geoffw]

There is a tsunami of medical graduates at present in Australia. Doctors are starting to look at the threat of unemployment. So it is not lack of doctors that is the problem.

But I thought that becoming a doctor was the quickest way to earning heaps of money?

That is true but also due to low staff productivity which means that we can only see one patient per hour rather than ten an hour. Public hospitals see patients as an expense, a liability whereas private hospitals see patients as profit and hence the better treatment in the latter.

So you are one of "them"?

 

[OKFFW]

Frankly, I don't think China has anything at all to do with the medical profession. Probably hasn't been to a specialist doctor of any sort and very likely has spent very little time in any hospital.

His complete and utter BS about all things medical, from the millions of dollars every doctor makes working part time to the total laziness and lack of any responsibility of all nurses, to the suggestion long waiting lists are due to nurses calling in sick or having tea breaks shows he has absolutely no idea about any of it and is just making it up as he goes along. I guess for shoits and giggles and lack of anything better to do.

 

[Angel]

I'd love to see China's proposal to the Qld Health Minister. How to fix the monolith that is called Qld Health.

 

[china]

I'd love to see China's proposal to the Qld Health Minister. How to fix the monolith that is called Qld Health.

It is far beyond a mere mortal like to me fix the Australian public health system. Multiple royal commissions have been held into various aspects of public hospitasl but to no avail. Things are as bad as they have ever been. Too many entrenched interests and cultural obstructions.

 

[china]

But I thought that becoming a doctor was the quickest way to earning heaps of money?

One of the surest and quickest but not the easiest and will be getting harder in the years to come due to the surplus of medical graduates. This is yet another government intervention to break the traditional power of the medical profession to maximise their income. Traditionally, the medical profession could earn untold wealth by limiting the number of medical graduates and specialists. Now, with a tsunami of medical graduates coming through, there is a clear and present danger to incomes in the years to come.

 

[wylie]

One of the surest and quickest ...

Just remind me... how long does it take to get a medical degree?

"Quick and easy" my ar$e!!!

 

[DaveM]

Just remind me... how long does it take to get a medical degree?

"Quick and easy" my ar$e!!!

I did mine last week, and did my plumbers apprenticeship the week before. Next week I am getting my PhD in Rocket Surgery.

 

[china]

Just remind me... how long does it take to get a medical degree?

Five years after high school. Same as law, architecture.

 

[Anh]

Traditionally, the medical profession could earn untold wealth by limiting the number of medical graduates and specialists. Now, with a tsunami of medical graduates coming through, there is a clear and present danger to incomes in the years to come.

This thread has becoming the same way as the other thread. I don't think China is correct in saying that now, there is no restriction, in fact with the Bradley review of uncapping university places (pls google it if anyone is interested), medical places is the only thing left that the Gov still has a cap on, which means that even the universities wanted to put more medical places on, they can't as the government won't pay them the funding for those exceeded medical place. This applies from 2013.

My BIL is quite an intelligent man, but he 'knows' everything there is to know about everything, and has a say in everything, i used to argue the point with him with no ending, in the end, i found out, for everything he said, i just agreed, and it worked.

 

[china]

This thread has becoming the same way as the other thread. I don't think China is correct in saying that now, there is no restriction, in fact with the Bradley review of uncapping university places (pls google it if anyone is interested), medical places is the only thing left that the Gov still has a cap on, which means that even the universities wanted to put more medical places on, they can't as the government won't pay them the funding for those exceeded medical place. This applies from 2013.

The number of universities offering medical degrees in Australia has tripled between 1999 and 2009. Our population has not trippled. Increased supply always means decreased remuneration.

 

[OKFFW]

It is far beyond a mere mortal like to me fix the Australian public health system. Multiple royal commissions have been held into various aspects of public hospitasl but to no avail. Things are as bad as they have ever been. Too many entrenched interests and cultural obstructions.

To my knowledge none of these Royal Commissions came to the conclusion that long waiting lists and inefficiencies in the system were due to lazy nurses taking tea breaks or calling in sick.

 

[Anh]

The number of universities offering medical degrees in Australia has tripled between 1999 and 2009. Our population has not trippled. Increased supply always means decreased remuneration.

Any website link you could quote, as i am quite interested in knowing about this too.

Thanks

Anne

 

[china]

Any website link you could quote, as i am quite interested in knowing about this too.

Thanks

Anne

I will give you a list of Australian medical schools for 2013. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_medical_schools_in_Australia

I can guarantee that most of these medical schools were not around in the 90s. You can establish the truthfulness of my statement by searching each medical school to find their starting date.

The "tsunami of medical graduates" has received endless press coverage last year.

http://www.medicalobserver.com.au/news/too-many-doctors-by-2013-we-have-a-problem

http://www.australiandoctor.com.au/news/latest-news/graduate---8216;tsunami--8217;-about-to-hit

A lot of these articles both in the lay media and medical media have commented extensively on too many medical schools producing far too many doctors.

 

[china]

To my knowledge none of these Royal Commissions came to the conclusion that long waiting lists and inefficiencies in the system were due to lazy nurses taking tea breaks or calling in sick.

They have concluded that there are major problems within our public hospital systems of which organisational / personnel culture is a major contributing factor.

 

[OKFFW]

They have concluded that there are major problems within our public hospital systems of which organisational / personnel culture is a major contributing factor.

Links to any such conclusion specifically citing that the preponderance of lazy nurses is a factor or stating that waiting lists being the result of tea breaks or sick days by nurses would lend just a shade of credibility to your assertions.

 

[BayView]

The nurses and the nursing union are definitely a major contributor to the malaise afflicting public hospital systems. The administrators/executive level staff - often nurses anyway - have to contend with nursing bureaucracies and entrenched cultures of laziness. You cannot do Mr. Smith's operation because we are on tea break.

More like; the list can't start because the Doctor hasn't shown up yet - he's still seeing outpatients in his rooms.

Or; there is an Emergency Caesar, followed by a Triple-A, and there is a car accident victim on it's way in, so Mr.Smiths colonoscopy will have to be pushed back until tomorrow.

You have to cancel Mr. Smith's admission because the assistant trainee nurse has called in sick

At this point the NUM is on the phone, calling every staff Member they have to see who can work. It's last minute, and many are not contactable, not available and/or have something else to do.

Next, she is calling up the various agencies to see who they can send. The agency rep tells the NUM that the earliest available nurse is 2 hours away, or no-one at all as it's too short notice, or no-one trained in that field to come in.

You have no clue.

Your Honor; the prosecution rests. No further questions.

 

[china]

More like; the list can't start because the Doctor hasn't shown up yet - he's still seeing outpatients in his rooms.

Or; there is an Emergency Caesar, followed by a Triple-A, and there is a car accident victim on it's way in, so Mr.Smiths colonoscopy will have to be pushed back until tomorrow.

At this point the NUM is on the phone, calling every staff Member they have to see who can work. It's last minute, and many are not contactable, not available and/or have something else to do.

Next, she is calling up the various agencies to see who they can send. The agency rep tells the NUM that the earliest available nurse is 2 hours away, or no-one at all as it's too short notice, or no-one trained in that field to come in.

.

This just reflects poor human resource and time management that is so endemic in the public hospital system. This leads to gross wastage of tax payers money, long waiting lists and generally unsatisfactory outcomes for both patients and hospital workers. When operating lists have to be cancelled due to lack of nursing staff, it means that there is a huge cost immediately and flow on costs. Often nursing management will say that an operation cannot proceed as they need at least three nurses but one has not shown up. This means that the remaining nurses may be sitting around doing absolutely nothing but getting paid for it, so they don't care. In fact it is part of their nursing culture to roster in sick leave as part of their leave entitlements several months in advance. It is the Australian sense of entitlement at its best. With regards to flow on costs of cancelled operations, not only has the patient taken time off work but the patient's employer has to bear the costs of sick leave and hiring extra staff.

Few successful private sector organisations would be run anything like a public hospital (it would go bankrupt within a few days but then the public health system is like a bottomless pit for taxpayer funds without anyone remedying the gross inefficiencies) but then private sectors generally do not have to deal with large blue collar, inefficient unionised workforces.

 

[Mazda]

@ China - I know right? How dare people come into the hospital with unscheduled life-threatening emergencies and mess around other people's operating times / staffing rosters?

How unreasonable of them. They should have planned their emergencies beforehand and made an appointment with a doctor before meeting with their accident or developing complications.

===

edit: oh. How dare the hospital give their staff sick days off and leave days off too. The nurses work in a hospital! They have no right to be sick! At all! And who cares about rest days...

 

[DaveM]

@ China - I know right? How dare people come into the hospital with unscheduled life-threatening emergencies and mess around other people's operating times / staffing rosters?

How unreasonable of them. They should have planned their emergencies beforehand and made an appointment with a doctor before meeting with their accident or developing complications.

Reminds me of a report I saw on US health care, where a lady who was in a car accident and unconscious was taken to hospital in an ambulance and her HMO denied the claim for the ambulance as it was not an approved expense.

The lady asked them what, was she supposed to be revived from her unconscious injured state, ring the HMO call centre, sit in a call queue for 45 mins and then submit a claim pre-approval before she got taken to hospital?

 

[china]

Reminds me of a report I saw on US health care, where a lady who was in a car accident and unconscious was taken to hospital in an ambulance and her HMO denied the claim for the ambulance as it was not an approved expense.

The lady asked them what, was she supposed to be revived from her unconscious injured state, ring the HMO call centre, sit in a call queue for 45 mins and then submit a claim pre-approval before she got taken to hospital?

In Australia, we have the opposite problem. Everything is for free and everyone expects health care for free. A sense of entitlement. Health care is in fact very expensive and if everyone was charged even 5 dollars to attend emergency department, I believe a lot of our public hospital systems problems would be resolved. There would be fewer attendances for a start and more appreciation of services provided.