Accountant wants Payment BEFORE Tax Submission.

[xcesiv]

I had to pay my accountant upfront before i get my return.

 

[Peter_Tersteeg]

Last years accountant meeting with my wife was fairly straight forward. She does the personal stuff and I do the business.

Wife spent 30 minutes going over her income, receipts, etc. Accountant then turns to me.

Me: "Did you get my MYOB data files via email?"
Accnt: "Yep."
Me: "Need anything else?"
Accnt: "Nope, come back in 2 weeks to sign."

It's worth taking the time to get your tax into MYOB or Quicken.

 

[Mry]

My practice also requires payment before lodgment. I have had some nasty situations where it has taken up to six months to be paid by some clients for work that had been completed. In one instance I helped a client in a tight spot by performing thousands of dollars of work at short notice to prevent him from going to court since he had made some major errors. I also reorganized his structures for him putting myself out of pocket. I was repaid with 9 months of promises that never came to fruition. While some of you would make great clients for any practice, there are some shockingly bad people out there who ruin it for everyone by forcing this kind of policy to be made.

 

[Pushka]

We dont pay before lodgement but on the other hand we have a long history with the accountant. We also have everything reconciled through MYOB and do our own BAS etc. Even our Super Fund cash accounts are reconciled through MYOB and shares we use portfolio planner which calculates everything. Mind you, we have always paid within 7 days!

 

[GreatPig]

I get bills from my accountants with the tax returns (which are always sent by post) and usually send a cheque back with the signed copies. I don't know if they'd submit the returns without being paid first, but I'm never in a hurry to have returns lodged anyway.

Other occasional accountant bills I get I just pay when I get around to them, which is usually within the next week or three. That's more to do with having time to allocate to paperwork though than having the money available.

I don't use MYOB, but do send in fairly detailed spreadsheets.

GP

 

[LynnH]

Like Pushka, we have never paid before lodgement, and have only ever used 2 accountants (and only then because of an interstate move).

We don't use ITWVs (due to the large degree of volatility from one pay to the next - and the fact that I'm too lazy to amend the ITWVs on a regular basis! ) and we usually have a five-figure refund 'cheque', which is forwarded directly to our accountant's trust account by the ATO. Our accountant then deducts his fee from this and forwards the balance to our bank account. So he gets paid before we do.

If someone has been a long-term pay-on-time client of a firm, I would have thought - in the interest of customer relations - that such an arrangement could possibly be allowed to continue. Nonetheless, I can certainly understand why Mry and other accountants feel the necessity to require payments up-front - particularly for new clients and the PITA types!

Cheers
LynnH

 

[josko]

This is pretty sloppy customer relations if nothing else. I'd be interested to know Jo, how long have you been with them, i.e. are you a reliable client and paid bills reliably previously? If so, I assume it is, then this is very ordinary.

Maybe the 10% rise is to cover the 10% clients who don't like being bent over and subsequently leave.

Hi all,

I have been with them for 5 or 6 years. What has happened has pretty much boiled down to what you describe, Lyn and Jazza.

I have recently spoken to the MD who has apologised that I was not notified of the new policy. He has also taken the time to arrange a payment system over a month. It seems that he has only been there a little over a month and is trying to sift through the terrible customer service and problems that have been faced by a company that has grown so fast. He was quite sincere.

He also suggested that there were too many unpaid bills last year and this new policy has unfortunately affected those that were consistant. He also mentioned the rules were not inflexible.

It is interesting to note that C&N is now a franchise. Apart from the Pymble and Oatlands offices, other C&N's are franchises. Therefore the same policies are apparently not always employed.

Unfortunately, it's too late for me. Personally, I like to deal with an accountant who has the same interests and deals in property themselves. I have no idea whether my latest accountant at C&N does this and if he is like the last 4 or 5, probably does not. (It would also be nice if he spelt my name right.)

SO, to Chan & Naylor's credit, they did apologise and "sort" me out. I'll leave it at that.

Regards JO

 

[Aaron Sice]

i've been on call for my accountant with his devvy Qs so i think he gives me some rope.

small business + car + disc trust + SMSF + 2 personal + shares = about $4k.

 

[AVD]

Actually GGA's base rates have remained the same since 2007 when the business changed hands, we have not increased individual returns, companies, BAS or couples returns and the trust returns have only gone up marginally. If your activity has increased or altered of course your fees will have increased.

It is standard practice in many firms to pay prior to lodgment, firms have been burnt in the past by clients refusing to pay bills because they end up with tax payable. If this is a policy change I would hope it was explained in a very nice and tactful way, but perhaps you would be able to approach them from a loyalty standpoint and request some leniency, it can't hurt to try?

Alysha

www.gatherumgoss.com

 

[joanmc]

gee Jo that seems expensive to me. We pay less than half that for 2 companies , a trust, 8 properties, shares and 3 personals as well as all the brain picking I do through the year. I would be asking if their service is going to get 10% better each year?

 

[cu@thetop]

In defence of C&N (never thought I'd say that); payment of fees before lodgement isn't uncommon in the industry. If anything, it's good business practice. I know of some firms that require part-payment before even starting any work.

GGA is Gatherum-Goss & Assoc, where Dad used to use the same theory before he retired. I have no idea what they are doing these days.

Also, from experience, C&N generally do release their trust deeds and other documents when changing accountants. They may also ask you to sign a waiver indemnifying them against any negative outcomes that may arise as a result of using their structures.

How am I supposed to make a fully informed decision about the adequacy of their "proprietory trust deed" to sign the waiver if they haven't given me the documents in the first place?

 

[BayView]

Well this is the last straw with C&N for me.

I received a letter from Chan & Naylor stating thus:



This is after already receiving my bill with:



Which apparently will occur every year.

Wouldn't it be nice if we could all send letters out to our clients explaining that we will not complete their request for service until they pay for that service in full?

Regards JO

Ahh...the joy of achieving fame.

If I was as high profile and successful as those guys, with people lining up at the door; I'd probably do the same I think.

And they've got all those ads to pay for, don't forget.

They probably don't want the work anymore - a bit like too-busy builders who quote exhorbitently to turn you away. Could never work out that mentality - just say you're too busy.

Incidentally, we pay our guy a set fee per year for some services, and then there are extra charges for different things as requested.

 

[josko]

gee Jo that seems expensive to me. We pay less than half that for 2 companies , a trust, 8 properties, shares and 3 personals as well as all the brain picking I do through the year. I would be asking if their service is going to get 10% better each year?

Hi Joan,
Hm-m-m. Me thinks not!

Marc,

I agree.....looking at it from their point of view...I guess most people don't have the portfolios and complications that we do. Most people speak to their accountant once a year and wouldn't expect them to know their name. So in that respect....why not have them lining up at the door?

I guess I'm not like most people.

Regards JO

 

[Spectre]

My accountant offered to bill me prior for work done ytd which I wasnt broken up about -my returns around 4-5k a year and to have the deduction this year worked out well. Either I pay it in tax or to the accountant...

 

[Kenster]

... I thought there was a problem with moving away from C&N if you are using their proprietary Property Trust. My understanding was that they didn't release this document which would make it impossible to find and alternate accountant.

Is this the trust deed + company constitution documents you refer to?

Are these the documents C&N withhold from the clients?

Thanks