Anybody hear what Mark Latham wants to do to CGT?

rodimus said:
Latham's just trying to get attention and support of the middle and lower class by these suggestions. Politicians!

One thing I dont like about politicians is that those who don't know anything about the issue likes to simply make new rules. And worse, appoint committes who dont know nothing (but think they know it all) and make rules just to gain support!
Classes? Do we have classes in Australia? ;)

Generally politicians know very little about their portfolios - whether in government or opposition.

Strangely enou8gh, many CEOs & executives of companies also know very little about their companies.

Their roles are to be generalists, not specialists, with focused skills in handling people.

The problem is when they get poor advice...or even worse, don't listen to advice!

Latham needs to create controversy & look young and vibrant as he believes it's the only way to be relevant enough for Australians to consider them as an alternate government.

He's probably right.....but it does have it's pitfalls - as he's found over the issue of bringing troops home.

Cheers,

Aceyducey
 
Hi All

I thought that this article that I read today on "Howard denies tax breaks disadvantage poor" would be interesting in light of this current post.

Cheers
Corsa


Howard denies tax breaks disadvantage poor

The Prime Minister has defended negative gearing rules that provide tax breaks to some people who own investment properties.

The Australian Council of Social Service (ACOSS) estimates negative gearing, salary sacrificing and other tax concessions cost taxpayers about $8 billion every year.

ACOSS says abolishing negative gearing would save about $2 billion a year.

The council's Andrew McCallum says the money saved would be better spent on increasing childcare support and a paid maternity leave scheme.

"It [negative gearing] really is speculative investment of the worst kind," he said.

"It doesn't add anything to the bulk of affordable housing.

"It's really a way for people to borrow and deliberately make losses so they can minimise their income."

But John Howard has told ABC Radio that the Government is committed to the tax concession.

"At the moment market conditions generally are more favourable to lower rents than they have been in the past because there's been a heavy investment in investment properties," Mr Howard said.

"But if governments take decisions that reduce the amount of money going to investment properties that could over time lead to an increase in rents."

Australian Chamber of Commerce chief executive Peter Hendy says the ACOSS proposals will cause more harm than good.

"They want to take away incentives to invest in superannuation, incentive to average workers to invest in employee share ownership schemes," he said.

"They want to take away family tax benefits worth some $800 million.

"That's not where we need to go in this country."


www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/s1086069.htm
 
there's no point in being average middle class, its the worst position.

The poor gets free money and pay no tax, and the rich makes lots of money and pay little tax.

The middle is the one paying!

No wonder lots of people are opting to not work and get the social security! free $$$!
 
rodimus said:
No wonder lots of people are opting to not work and get the social security! free $$$!
Rodimus,

Where DO you get your figures?

Australia has the lowest unemployment rate (AKA: people claiming benefits) in about 13 years.

Where are the people flooding onto social security?

Before you start claiming people are illigitimitely claiming social security enmasse I suggest you provide some proof rather than rhetoric.

Aceyducey
 
Acey,

I do PERSONALLY KNOW people who have been on the social security, then get a job in Myer or Harris Scarfe or some contractual work or a taxi driver, and then think its too hard work, too much trouble, too much tax, not enough time for themself (and many other excuses) and then quit their job just to get back to the dole.

And all they do is watch tv the whole afternoon.

Many countries have unemplyment as a 'problem'. But people are still getting jobs, starting their own businesses, etc. Its a question whether they want to do it or not.

Note: I am NOT saying ALL people who are on social security are like this, but there ARE people out there!
 
rodimus said:
PLUS, I said "lots", no figures mentioned. Which eye of yours saw a figure? ;)
So you know a few people - that's not 'lots'...

If you want the definition of 'lots'...I'd define it as a substantial proportion of the total population in question....over 50%.

If you wish to retract and say 'a few' I'm perfectly happy with your statement.

Cheers,

Aceyducey
 
Hilarious thread, nice work guys.

On the Latham/CGT issue - I follow PittSt's logic - my only concern is what these changes will have to investor(market) sentiment (if they actually occur).
 
oh boy here we go again.

"Lots" and "a few" are unspecified references. In your mind may be "more than 50%" FOR YOU, but in others, its defined as the percentage of cases out of the ones they know of. For others may be different.

If everyone needs to do a gammar check everytime they are trying to say something in this forum, its going to be pretty hard. Furthermore, what may be 'correct' for someone, is never ALWAYS be agreeable for another.
Words like 'many', 'lots', 'people', 'good', 'bad', 'poor', 'rich' etc are all unspecified and undefined.

Look, Nobody needs to feel offended, its JUST an opinion from personal experience. I interviewed countless people for research on social psychology and also have done it countless of times for hiring people.

If you are waiting for everyone to have the same opinion as you, and then and only then you are happy, thats pretty sad.

remember, its just an opinion
 
Its unbelievable,
on the one hand govts want us to fund our own retirements, and then when some people start to make some money through property investment, its oh no you people cant have that we must do something to take that off you.....
lets increase cgt, lets get rid of neg gearing etc etc and as we all know this is just a cycle, lots of prop prices now are falling, on the sunshine coast theres many desperate vendors at the moment needing quick sales but there are few buyers..... govts just need to let market forces take care of themselves!
 
I have been in Australia for only 10 years. I don't know the history as well as many of you.

I remember reading though that it was a labor government who initialed many of the economic reforms in the 80's. Is this correct? If so, why are people so worried about a labour government?

Latham may say a lot of things before an election, but unless it is in some kind of labour policy document, do we need to be so concerned about it?
 
rodimus said:
there's no point in being average middle class, its the worst position.

The poor gets free money and pay no tax, and the rich makes lots of money and pay little tax.

The middle is the one paying!

No wonder lots of people are opting to not work and get the social security! free $$$!

Hi Rodimus

I think you have a point here however I think that although wealthy people may not pay high personal income tax they may pay other forms of tax. Anyway at the end of the day I think we'd all rather be in the rich camp.

As for Aceducey's comments - I guess it depends where you get your info.
Recently I read that Australia's unemployment figures are based on someone working as little as one hour a week being counted as employed - no wonder the unemployment rate is the lowest in years. I also read that one in five people in Australia are on some form of pension or govt benefit.

Statistics are based on stuff that's never static anyway.

Cheers
Julie
 
Last edited:
House_Keeper said:
I have been in Australia for only 10 years. I don't know the history as well as many of you.

I remember reading though that it was a labor government who initialed many of the economic reforms in the 80's. Is this correct? If so, why are people so worried about a labour government?

Latham may say a lot of things before an election, but unless it is in some kind of labour policy document, do we need to be so concerned about it?



Hi House Keeper

The reply to why we seem to all fear Labour is wide and varied but here’s my personal call.

Yes, Labour did introduce many reforms in the 1980, which the Libs have enjoyed the fruits of in the 1990s however Labour gave it away with in fighting. After initial courage, they were unable to follow through due to Union pressure. Keating actually proposed at GST and got howled down. So they stopped building for tomorrow and started fighting.

Then like all Gov after many years in office they got lazy. Super got more and more confusing, and they let the economy overheat in the 1990's with Quintex and Bonds and such. Many people lost money and some (myself included) lost jobs.

They spent more time on point scoring and fighting for the leadership than governing. Most the 1990s labour years were all Keating versus Hawke. So while "Nero fiddled Rome burned" and we all enjoyed up to 18% interest rates for homes. Virtually incomprehensible now?

Keating told us it was our fault "the recession we had to have". Despite this, and against a GST, they bought the 1993 election with LAW tax cuts.

Is this starting to sound familiar to present day?

So the Libs got in 1996 with a small target strategy and to their credit, reformed Gov a lot and built of the strengths of the Labour changes. Australia has survived, the Asian crisis, tech boom, terrorism, and (so far) the oil shock and enjoyed a growing economy. IMHO this success is mostly due to the fact the Libs paid off a lot of Gov debt and introduced tax reform thereby insulated us against the world to some extent.

These actions built the incentive for us to have a go which Labour could never endorse publicly and we now have a decent exports based economy with incentives for personal success.

However when the economy is good, lots prosper and some linger and go backwards. The SOME complain where is my share? and NG and such get the bad press. ACOSS are, on this point, nutters. Which is a shame as they have a role to play in society. If NG is wrong put forward what is right I say?

We are now at the same point in the cycle to 1993 and with the Libs staying with Howard , Labour are a real chance. So what I fear is a Labour win followed by rampant social engineering that spends lots of $$ on nothing programs. Raiding the cookie jar (GST).

The government is due for a change, the people sense it, but Labour are yet to show anything economically that makes sense to me and that is what is so scary. Latham should be all vision and macro economics, not children overboard, iraq, and book reading. Poor people can't buy books when paying 18% rates for home. Growing up working class, I still believe jobs and a low cost of living is worth more than any Gov sponsored program of social engineering.

So whilst I await policies, at this stage I don’t see much except bash the suposed rich ( the people who have a go) which is very frightening as it rewards complacently which Australia excelled at during the 1970 and 80’s.

Regards, Peter 147
 
Work for the Dole?

Hi All,

Interesting discussion. I don't have an opinion just a question :)

Rodimus mentioned that 'some' people go to the dole when they decide that its easier than working in a low wage job. My question is, what happened to "Work for the dole"?

I never really followed how it worked exactly, though I thought they were trying to put more and more people into it.

Any facts on this? I will also take opinions :D
 
House_Keeper said:
I have been in Australia for only 10 years. I don't know the history as well as many of you.

I remember reading though that it was a labor government who initialed many of the economic reforms in the 80's. Is this correct? If so, why are people so worried about a labour government?

Read any Labour economic policy lately?
 
Peter 147 said:
Hi House Keeper

The reply to why we seem to all fear Labour is wide and varied but here’s my personal call.

Yes, Labour did introduce many reforms in the 1980, which the Libs have enjoyed the fruits of in the 1990s however Labour gave it away with in fighting. After initial courage, they were unable to follow through due to Union pressure. Keating actually proposed at GST and got howled down. So they stopped building for tomorrow and started fighting.

Then like all Gov after many years in office they got lazy. Super got more and more confusing, and they let the economy overheat in the 1990's with Quintex and Bonds and such. Many people lost money and some (myself included) lost jobs.

They spent more time on point scoring and fighting for the leadership than governing. Most the 1990s labour years were all Keating versus Hawke. So while "Nero fiddled Rome burned" and we all enjoyed up to 18% interest rates for homes. Virtually incomprehensible now?

Keating told us it was our fault "the recession we had to have". Despite this, and against a GST, they bought the 1993 election with LAW tax cuts.

Is this starting to sound familiar to present day?

So the Libs got in 1996 with a small target strategy and to their credit, reformed Gov a lot and built of the strengths of the Labour changes. Australia has survived, the Asian crisis, tech boom, terrorism, and (so far) the oil shock and enjoyed a growing economy. IMHO this success is mostly due to the fact the Libs paid off a lot of Gov debt and introduced tax reform thereby insulated us against the world to some extent.

These actions built the incentive for us to have a go which Labour could never endorse publicly and we now have a decent exports based economy with incentives for personal success.

However when the economy is good, lots prosper and some linger and go backwards. The SOME complain where is my share? and NG and such get the bad press. ACOSS are, on this point, nutters. Which is a shame as they have a role to play in society. If NG is wrong put forward what is right I say?

We are now at the same point in the cycle to 1993 and with the Libs staying with Howard , Labour are a real chance. So what I fear is a Labour win followed by rampant social engineering that spends lots of $$ on nothing programs. Raiding the cookie jar (GST).

The government is due for a change, the people sense it, but Labour are yet to show anything economically that makes sense to me and that is what is so scary. Latham should be all vision and macro economics, not children overboard, iraq, and book reading. Poor people can't buy books when paying 18% rates for home. Growing up working class, I still believe jobs and a low cost of living is worth more than any Gov sponsored program of social engineering.

So whilst I await policies, at this stage I don’t see much except bash the suposed rich ( the people who have a go) which is very frightening as it rewards complacently which Australia excelled at during the 1970 and 80’s.

Regards, Peter 147


Thanks for the detailed summary Peter. It helped me to put things in perspective.

From what I have observed about the Howard government, they have a sound economic team, and have managed the economy very well over the last 8 years. In comparison, the labour is a bit of an unknown quantity.

This 20 year summary gave me a much better perspective in which to judge both sides rather than the short-term focus you see in the media. I may not agree with Howard's position on Iraq, but that has to be balanced with other things.

Thanks for providing o broader perspective on the issue.

Cheers,
 
Thanks for your reply House Keeper. It helps that I started by career in 1985 but remember I am only a student of life not politics.

I agree that the Libs have managed the economy well.

Even my 73 year old mother, "dyed in the wool" working class farm stock, agrees with many of their policies. Tightening welfare, GST, etc.

Election Prediction
This election is going to be IMO one of the most important elections since the GST one.

Early days but ATM unless Labour can convince the public they can manage the economy, I predicte a slim Liberal win.

Then if Howard passes to Costello we will see a redress in social balance and more reform. If labour loses this one they could very well be Oppposition for a much longer period.

Peter 147
 
Interesting last Sunday what John Edwards said on 2UE.
Apparently Residex believe that Liberal/Coalition will win this one - only just....but will get ousted next time.
The Residex predictions of this current growth cycle believe there is up to 4 years more growth - and the change of government in 4 years will bring this current cycle to its REAL end (Residex have found in the past that each change of Government has brought each of the last 3 cycles to an end)....I hope they are right.
 
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