Are you happy?

[truong]

Hi RF, thank you for this thread, I wish you the best in your pursuit. Meditation is important to me too and I can relate with a lot of what you’re saying. If it wasn’t for meditation I probably wouldn’t have survived a period of great physical and mental pain in my younger days. To know pain (and pleasure) as a product of the mind helped me a lot.

Please allow me to do a bit of commentary on your posts, keeping in mind that I am not in disagreement, just offering an optional perspective.

The past is a thought that arises in the present. The future is a thought that arises in the present. Getting behind this sea of thought and experiencing what is true in this very moment is wondrous.

Well said. Thank you for this insight.

I've also had major breakthroughs in wellbeing by understanding how the brain works (I've studied it at length), realising that everything you can possibly experience in life is generated within the mind, from inputs from the external world.

Sometimes I wonder whether the external world is also generated within the mind. Reminds me about this Zen koan: If a tree falls in the forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?

Further, having a grasp of the evolution of the universe and life on earth really puts things in perspective.

I’m fond of fundamental physics too. For example the string theory that says that every particle in the universe is just a different vibration of the underlying sea of energy is very similar to my observation of thoughts, whereby individual thoughts are just different vibrations of consciousness. Hopefully the day will come when we see no gap between the worlds of matter and consciousness.

In summary, my level of wellbeing and longterm happiness has been off the charts, and ever increasing for all of my adult years. It appears entirely disconnected from income, assets, achievements, setbacks, expenses – all outside influences.

Yes, true happiness belongs to a different realm than things like income, assets, achievements etc… In fact to talk of happiness as if it can be experienced is not quite right in this context. By definition an experience is able to be experienced, therefore it has a beginning and an end, whereas true happiness is something that is inherently in your own nature, unchanging and endless.

Having said that, I’ve found that having a certain level of income does help, not so much in attaining happiness but in clearing the way for the pursuit of happiness. When I was poor and broke all my energy was used to escape poverty. I wanted money more than the richest man on earth. Now that I’m retired and LOR, conditions are much more favourable for a spiritual pursuit.

This is not to say that happiness cannot be experienced in time of suffering. Suffering can even be an opportunity. It can sharpen your mind so much that you get a breakthrough. I’ve been fortunate to experience that, to a small extent.

I understand everyone's experience in life is different. Our minds are all different, our experiences are all different and our circumstances are all different. It's a lottery (your genes, location, parents, life events etc) and I'm thankful that chance has delivered me to such a great place mentally, early on in my life.

Is it a lottery if your mind has allowed it?

I imagine religious belief, if anything, would detract from happiness and wellbeing for most. It did for me until I renounced my religious beliefs once I was a teenager with access to information who was able to educate himself on reality. Renouncing my indoctrinated beliefs provided a HUGE boost in my happiness.

It's not mentally healthy believing there's a man in the sky watching your every move, having rules imposed upon you that extend not only to your actions but your thoughts, endless threats of eternal torture and torment if you disobey too many of them, (or in the case of Islam, punishment by death for leaving the religion, or even questioning it), not to mention the demand of financial contributions in the form of tithes etc and the internal confusion that arises when religious dogma conflicts with facts.

I would agree with this in general terms. Being a Buddhist by family tradition I’ve never thought much about God, however it has dawned on me that a meditation state can be very God-like. I now completely understand if someone tells me they can feel a Presence, a Life, so true and so great that there can only be one name for it: God.

It’s not so much that I am against religions, rather I see religions as (very) imperfect reflections of God as we all are. For many people religion has made them better... until it becomes a hindrance, and that seems to be your case.

 

[Richard Feynman]

Is it a lottery if your mind has allowed it?

I would agree with this in general terms. Being a Buddhist by family tradition I’ve never thought much about God, however it has dawned on me that a meditation state can be very God-like. I now completely understand if someone tells me they can feel a Presence, a Life, so true and so great that there can only be one name for it: God.

It’s not so much that I am against religions, rather I see religions as (very) imperfect reflections of God as we all are. For many people religion has made them better... until it becomes a hindrance, and that seems to be your case.

I appreciate the responses.

Regarding the two points quoted above.

Your mind is a product of your genes, so yes, the lottery analagy still holds.

I'm careful to stress I don't want this topic to degenerate into a fiery religious debate, but in my case, religion was always a hinderance (intellectual and psychological) – it didn't become one.

 

[Tim86]

You can't always be happy. Sometimes horrible things happen and the sane response is to feel horrible. If you are happy at a funeral then you've probably got to get yourself checked out.

Happiness is dependent on circumstances. Satisfactions or contentment is less so dependent on circumstances, but can still be highly influenced by them. All the mindfulness and meditation etc... will only help you so much. In my line of work I've supported people going through some very F'd up situations, and at no point would it be reasonable for me to try and spin things to be a positive or even expect them to be satisfied with the situation. "Your child is dying... okay now lets look at the bright side...." Sometimes life is unfair and horrible and to be satisfied or okay with it is to be okay with mass injustice.

Some people are lucky enough to experience mainly good things from life and it's easy to stay positive. Some people have good experiences but are mentally unwell and persist in viewing their experiences negatively. And then some people just have horrible experiences and their resulting horrible emotions are justified and all they can do is stick it out until life cuts them a break.

 

[TingTong]

The opposite of happiness is boredom and is difficult to avoid entirely because we need some valleys to distinguish it from the feeling of bliss and/or being content. If we are always "happy" then how can we know what this feels like if we never experience the "opposite" of it?

 

[Tim86]

The opposite of happiness is boredom and is difficult to avoid entirely because we need some valleys to distinguish it from the feeling of bliss and/or being content. If we are always "happy" then how can we know what this feels like if we never experience the "opposite" of it?

Any evidence for that?

Personally I dont think I need to eat crap in order to appreciate chocolate, or to get raped in order to appreciate consensual sex, etc...

Btw the opposite of happiness is sadness not boredom...

 

[Richard Feynman]

You can't always be happy. Sometimes horrible things happen and the sane response is to feel horrible. If you are happy at a funeral then you've probably got to get yourself checked out.

While it's obvious that events are bound to occur that cause very temporary dips in happiness and wellbeing for almost everyone, I'm curious. Lets think through your example.

If someone is able, despite terrible circumstances/events, to maintain a level of happiness and wellbeing, why would they wish to be "checked out"?

"Because it's ****ed up" is not a valid answer, obviously.

Just so I'm clear with what I'm asking you and what I'm saying, I'll add that if there was a magic "no grieving pill" you could pop to avoid any suffering at the loss of a loved one, I would not take it, for it would taint the value of life. I just want to know about your example or someone who appears immune to suffering.

And then some people just have horrible experiences and their resulting horrible emotions are justified and all they can do is stick it out until life cuts them a break.

Again, I agree that everyone has a different ride through life, some have a great cruise, others just cop misfortune after misfortune. The underlying issue though, is how it's dealt with. In truth, the vast majority of suffering one experiences is self inflicted.

Sounds ridiculous until you analyse the statement. Lets say someone murders your spouse. You can dedicate a lifetime to hating this person, wishing death upon them, hoping they suffer the most terrible misery, dreaming of ways you'd exact revenge, fantasising about their murder, wishing you could even the score, dwelling on the fact you'll never see your loved one again, seeing happy couples and feeling incredible pain and remain bitter your entire life, by choice.

Alternatively, you can attempt your very best to find techniques to minimise the displeasure and suffering you go through as a result and focus on finding ways of being happy in the present moment, as much is possible.

Yep, harder than it sounds, but you will note that each is a distinct path one can pursue by choice.

 

[Richard Feynman]

By the way, this is a great discussion. Thanks everyone who has contributed. It's proving as interesting as it is insightful.

 

[TingTong]

Personally I dont think I need to eat crap in order to appreciate chocolate, or to get raped in order to appreciate consensual sex, etc...

You may not think it, but it's true because this is how the mind works.

Btw the opposite of happiness is sadness not boredom...

This is a simple definition children often say because they think being happy means you're laughing and have a big smile on your face, i.e. you're not sad with a frown on your face. I define happiness as being accomplished and not bored. The literal opposite of happy is unhappy (not sad) but it's not binary and can encompass a range of emotions.

I generally agree with Tim Ferris when he said:
What is the opposite of happiness? Sadness? No. Just as love and hate are two sides of the same coin, so are happiness and sadness. Crying out of happiness is a perfect illustration of this. The opposite of love is indifference, and the opposite of happiness is - here's the clincher - boredom... The question you should be asking isn't 'What do I want?' or 'What are my goals?' but 'What would excite me?' Remember - boredom is the enemy, not some abstract 'failure.'

There are only 2 ways to be happy all the time.
1) Have whatever you want
2) Want whatever you have.

1) Having whatever you want sounds like a nice way to be happy but what about this gambler who died... after he entered the pearly gates he was led to a casino and turned loose. The gambler happily played baccarat and the pokies. He won and and kept winning. He also tried roulette, blackjack and craps and couldn't lose. It happened over and over and his winnings mounted so he became more daring and bet larger amounts. And won again. His excitement mounted until after a few hours he realised that no matter what he did, he was always winning. The gambler called out to God. God appeared and asked him: “What can I do for you?”
“Listen, God I love being in Heaven, but couldn’t I lose just once in a while?”
God looked surprised. “Heaven? Whatever gave you the idea you’re in Heaven?“

That’s how it can be when you always have whatever you want because no matter who you are or how powerful you are, there is simply no way you can have everything you want (or will want in the future). The human state means that whenever we get something we’ve wanted badly our mind tends to want something more, something better or something different. That’s just the way we are and is the reason why fast food places give limited choices otherwise we'd feel unhappy because we think we're missing out on something better.

2) Wanting whatever you have gives you a sense of appreciation and gratitude for everything you already have. If you’re eating something you don’t like you’re luckier than the guy who has nothing to eat. If you come from a broken family, going though a divorce or struggling at work, you’re still better off than someone who doesn’t have what you’re unhappy about having.. family, a spouse or a job.

Adolf Merckle lost US$3.6 billion during the GFC and then lost a few hundred million more when he lost a bet against Volkswagen stock. So in 2009 he was so upset he committed suicide by jumping in front of a train. He chose to kill himself because he'd lost US$3.9 billion even though he still had US$9.2 billion. This is an extreme example of how perceptions can be distorted to make us unhappy but is representative of everyone’s life. We refuse to acknowledge and appreciate our generous blessings and gifts that a kind destiny has showered upon us. Our lives, bodies, minds, intellect, upbringing, necessities, luxuries, friends and family. We tend to ignore them and focus on things we don’t have but want and this makes us unhappy.

 

[Dazz]

......no......

 

[Tim86]

You may not think it, but it's true because this is how the mind works.



This is a simple definition children often say because they think being happy means you're laughing and have a big smile on your face, i.e. you're not sad with a frown on your face. I define happiness as being accomplished and not bored. The literal opposite of happy is unhappy (not sad) but it's not binary and can encompass a range of emotions.

I generally agree with Tim Ferris when he said:
What is the opposite of happiness? Sadness? No. Just as love and hate are two sides of the same coin, so are happiness and sadness. Crying out of happiness is a perfect illustration of this. The opposite of love is indifference, and the opposite of happiness is - here's the clincher - boredom... The question you should be asking isn't 'What do I want?' or 'What are my goals?' but 'What would excite me?' Remember - boredom is the enemy, not some abstract 'failure.'

There are only 2 ways to be happy all the time.
1) Have whatever you want
2) Want whatever you have.

1) Having whatever you want sounds like a nice way to be happy but what about this gambler who died... after he entered the pearly gates he was led to a casino and turned loose. The gambler happily played baccarat and the pokies. He won and and kept winning. He also tried roulette, blackjack and craps and couldn't lose. It happened over and over and his winnings mounted so he became more daring and bet larger amounts. And won again. His excitement mounted until after a few hours he realised that no matter what he did, he was always winning. The gambler called out to God. God appeared and asked him: “What can I do for you?”
“Listen, God I love being in Heaven, but couldn’t I lose just once in a while?”
God looked surprised. “Heaven? Whatever gave you the idea you’re in Heaven?“

That’s how it can be when you always have whatever you want because no matter who you are or how powerful you are, there is simply no way you can have everything you want (or will want in the future). The human state means that whenever we get something we’ve wanted badly our mind tends to want something more, something better or something different. That’s just the way we are and is the reason why fast food places give limited choices otherwise we'd feel unhappy because we think we're missing out on something better.

2) Wanting whatever you have gives you a sense of appreciation and gratitude for everything you already have. If you’re eating something you don’t like you’re luckier than the guy who has nothing to eat. If you come from a broken family, going though a divorce or struggling at work, you’re still better off than someone who doesn’t have what you’re unhappy about having.. family, a spouse or a job.

Adolf Merckle lost US$3.6 billion during the GFC and then lost a few hundred million more when he lost a bet against Volkswagen stock. So in 2009 he was so upset he committed suicide by jumping in front of a train. He chose to kill himself because he'd lost US$3.9 billion even though he still had US$9.2 billion. This is an extreme example of how perceptions can be distorted to make us unhappy but is representative of everyone’s life. We refuse to acknowledge and appreciate our generous blessings and gifts that a kind destiny has showered upon us. Our lives, bodies, minds, intellect, upbringing, necessities, luxuries, friends and family. We tend to ignore them and focus on things we don’t have but want and this makes us unhappy.

Uh huh. So got any empirical evidence for anything you are trying to argue here? Sounds a lot like unsupported opinions by people with no background in research.

 

[daniellee]

Hi,

Here is my take:

1) Has your level of happiness permanently increased as your income/net worth has?
To a degree. When I started in my current job, the payrise was really helpful. Subsequently in the two years since, it has only grown by just over inflation. My level of happiness has not really increased year to year. My networth is small, but it does not factor into my happiness at all at this stage.

2) Has your level of happiness permanently increased as your portfolio has?
Not really. Portfolio increase is a measuring stick for me to indicate progress. If I do not buy more property, it signals something is not right with my money management style / mindset.

3) What's had the biggest positive, longterm impact on your happiness?
Sorting myself out as I grew up with a lot of anger and egativity.

4) What's had the biggest negative, longterm impact on your happiness?
If I focus on worrying, that brings me down. So now I focus on solving problems.

5) Those who have reached "financial freedom", has your permanent level of happiness increased?
Not there yet.

6) Any words of wisdom, insights, books, experiences, anything you recommend tor SSers to increase their happiness and wellbeing?
read plenty of self-help, wealth creation / mindset, property investing material to stay in the zone.

7) How old are you?
34 yrs old.

Regards,

Daniel

 

[Selinarra]

Hi All,

I have read this topic with great interest over the last few days and it's interesting to hear peoples different takes. Below is my take:

1) Has your level of happiness permanently increased as your income/net worth has?
My happiness is a direct result of a few different things and income, for me, is a side contribution to that. My income is not anything special, although I would consider to be sitting above the average which certainly has helped me. My happiness has increased over the last few years, as my income has increased, but I believe that has to do with what the income has allowed my husband and I to do in life. I am proud of our achievements, and therefore I am happy.

2) Has your level of happiness permanently increased as your portfolio has?
Yes. As above though, I am proud of our small but growing portfolio and therefore my happiness has increased.

3) What's had the biggest positive, longterm impact on your happiness?
My husband. If it wasn't for him, we wouldn't be investing in property. If it wasn't for him, I wouldn't in the property industry. If it wasn't for him, I would have never gone back to school. His influence on me has made me a better and happier person.

4) What's had the biggest negative, longterm impact on your happiness?
Going through a 'lost' period and getting mixed up in a bad crowd. And then my husband came along.... If I had continued done that path I would not be in the comfortable position I am today.

5) Those who have reached "financial freedom", has your permanent level of happiness increased?
Not there yet.

6) Any words of wisdom, insights, books, experiences, anything you recommend tor SSers to increase their happiness and wellbeing?
For me personally, I have found involving myself in various hobbies, increasing my fitness, learning new things and surrounding myself with people who I can learn from has increased my happiness and wellbeing.

7) How old are you?
24 years old.

 

[TingTong]

Uh huh. So got any empirical evidence for anything you are trying to argue here? Sounds a lot like unsupported opinions by people with no background in research.

Where am I "trying to argue" and where is the empirical evidence to support anything you are "trying to argue"

Pull your head in FFS and give it a wobble.

 

[K_Raheja]

although i have my difficult moments - but overall i make deliberate choice to be happy for myself.
one more thing which helps me to decide to be happy is that..i have not forgotten where i have come from.

 

[Fifth]

Interesting thread.

I will refrain from answering because frankly I'm not sure of the answer, but thank you to all of those who did share.

 

[Rentwithpets]

Thanks for much for the detailed and honest answers everyone. You're feeding my insatiable curiosity. Keep it coming.

In my own case, having yet to purchase IP#1 (not long though) I can't answer all of my own questions but here goes:

1) Has your level of happiness permanently increased as your income/net worth has? - Yes, but only up to the point where I could and did purchase my PPOR. Since then, income increases have had zero impact on happiness.

2) Has your level of happiness permanently increased as your portfolio has?
N/A

3) What's had the biggest positive, longterm impact on your happiness?
- I can't split this.

1) Mindfulness meditation. The ability to find complete and utter contentment any time, any place, in the present moment is the greatest trick I've discovered by far. It creates immunity from circumstance and gives an ability to clear the mind of all things past and present, if only for a moment, to find a deep sense of satisfaction "in the now". You will be stunned how gratifying, uplifting and fulfilling this technique is once honed (it does take a lot of practice).

This is enhanced further by the understanding that your entire life, all you ever have is the present moment. (I've mentioned this here before). The past is a thought that arises in the present. The future is a thought that arises in the present. Getting behind this sea of thought and experiencing what is true in this very moment is wondrous.

Mindfulness practice You've hit the nail on the head! Starting mindfulenss practice has had a profound effect on my life and how I see the world. Through insight I have experienced happiness for no reason at all, even when things don't go as planned. I practice mindfulness as a way out of mental "suffering". by changing my reaction to events and situations, I have become less reactive, more patient, more tolerant, less needy, less stressed, much happier in general. I have less desire for material things, and don't stress as much about the future or influencing the outcome of events.
Money certainly does contribute to happiness, but when there is enough to pay the bills and our basic needs, a higher income doesn't necessarily mean more happiness.

Recently I attended a course in mindfulness that explores the history and origins of the practice in the Buddhist context, ancient Indian psychology (was very advanced 2500 years ago) as well as modern applications in mindfulness. This is at Nan Tien Institute at Wollongong and I would highly recommend the course. I am also considering taking a few months off to go to Asia to study mindfulness practice in a long term retreat setting. Now I am writing a research paper on mindfulness and its application in everyday life and I am very happy to come across your comments in this forum

2) That my biggest passion (pursuit of knowledge/understanding, various areas, generally science) is essentially free, endless and every new thing of interest that I learn permanently elevates my levels of happiness by adding a new layer of pleasure and satisfaction in both in the act, and as a longterm result of the act.

I've also had major breakthroughs in wellbeing by understanding how the brain works (I've studied it at length), realising that everything you can possibly experience in life is generated within the mind, from inputs from the external world.

Further, having a grasp of the evolution of the universe and life on earth really puts things in perspective. The fact that I'm alive, and conscious, is simply the result of almost 14 billion years of the laws of physics running their course. Every atom in my body was generated in a supernova (death of a star), an immense explosion, scattering elements throughout the cosmos. And, as for life on earth, it's a by-product of DNA reproducing itself, nothing more. Sure makes petty things seem insignificant.

Consciousness is also very much related to mindfulness practice. Seeing everything without preconceptions as if we are seeing it for the first time helps develop a natural curiousity. Seeing things as they really are instead of what we like it to be. Also helps us become more creative when solving problems or creating innovative new prducts and services in business. I find learning something new extremely fascinating.

4) What's had the biggest negative, longterm impact on your happiness? - Nothing has been able to hinder this. Short term stress can create a temporary dip, but as soon as that moment is over, it's no longer able to effect me. Water on a duck's back.

My own mind has been the biggest negative impact in the past. By changing the way we think, we can choose to be happy or unhappy.

5) Those who have reached "financial freedom", has your permanent level of happiness increased? N/A, though I imagine this won't, it will simply give me options. Which is a good thing.

How do you define financial freedom? Having enough money that we don't need to worry about money, or not needing money so we don't have to worry about money? A yogi that lives/meditates in the forest and begs for his food has financial freedom because he doesn't need any money, doesn't have it and doesn't worry about it.

6) Any words of wisdom, insights, books, experiences, anything you recommend tor SSers to increase their happiness and wellbeing? When life is viewed through a logical lens, one realises that to gift of consciousness is to be treasured. Of all the atoms in the universe, to happen to be among those that ended up on a planet, able to support life and eventually as, not only life, but as human life, in an era where 100% of our time is not spent struggling to subsist, life is astonishing! And compared to the 13,820,000,000 year old universe, our 80 year lifespans are the tiniest speck. Once you're dead, that's it. Make of your life, whatever will give you the greatest pleasure and satisfaction (providing it isn't to the detriment of others).

This talk must be credited a) for some of what I've said, and b) for further elevating my levels of wellbeing and happiness. "Death At The Present Moment": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITTxTCz4Ums

7) How old are you? 27

36

In summary, my level of wellbeing and longterm happiness has been off the charts, and ever increasing for all of my adult years. It appears entirely disconnected from income, assets, achievements, setbacks, expenses – all outside influences.

If I were to lose everything I owned, all assets/possessions, my job, the lot, I honestly don't feel it would alter my level of wellbeing one iota in the longterm. Sure it would change my circumstances, but nothing more.

Totally agree I'm not at that point yet...but getting there. I still have lots of possessions (slowly giving away or selling them on ebay and it feels quite liberating). I still find many things useful but I don't have attachment to most material objects...except my computer and phone that I use to communicate and run my business. My partner is a yogi who owns next to nothing, his happiness level is way above mine.

I understand everyone's experience in life is different. Our minds are all different, our experiences are all different and our circumstances are all different. It's a lottery (your genes, location, parents, life events etc) and I'm thankful that chance has delivered me to such a great place mentally, early on in my life.

Bring on every single second of existence I'm yet to experience!!!

Love your post!!!

 

[Tim86]

Where am I "trying to argue" and where is the empirical evidence to support anything you are "trying to argue"

Pull your head in FFS and give it a wobble.

The empirical evidence?

Well situational influences are the highest predictor of someones behaviour with meta analysis finding an r value of around .3 from memory whereas peronality variables are traditionally woeful predictors of behaviour with them either failing completely or at best approaching r values of less than .1 And that's even using the big 5 personality measure which is apparently the best one within the field of psychology right now.

What does that mean? Well exactly what I said, that situational influences impact someone's wellbeing and behaviour etc... more so than all the rest. So you can make all the claims you want about how situational influences won't impact your wellbeing etc... however situational influences do in fact have the highest probability of impacting your wellbeing as has been shown by YEARS AND YEARS of Social Psychology research. Feel free to spend some time on google scholar reading all about the situational influences on behaviour, coping, etc...

Anyway that's where the empirical evidence is for what I was saying.

Now what about the empirical evidence for the BS you were spouting about boredom being the opposite of happiness etc...? And needing horrible things to happen in order to appreciate and recognise positive things??? I sure didn't hear any of that BS while doing my honours in psychology and I haven't heard it during my years of work in the field. But please feel free to continue to enlighten me and tell me to pull my head in and give it a wobble... your insults sure do make your point of view seem much more valid than my own.

Now you should ignore all the info I just posted here and just call me an idiot. That'll really show me.

Good luck

 

[K_Raheja]

I have set the following factors
set @income = 5.5
set @religion = 1.2
set @ignorance = 4.2
set @love = 0.6

And , I want to generate atleast 5kw/hour of happiness ..but do not know how to do it

maybe Atish Mehta can help http://vimeo.com/3079284

 

[Rentwithpets]

Mindfulness practice, kindness and compassion to benefit all sentient beings = ultimate long term happiness.

 

[BayView]

And , I want to generate atleast 5kw/hour of happiness ..but do not know how to do it

I find this helps a lot....