As a landlord am I entitled to outgoing report from my PM ?

[whitehope06]

Hi,
I'm in the middle of change of PM and tenant at the moment.
I had a final inspection for our IP, it was horrible , the carpet, walls , bathrooms,.... the tenant hasn't cleaned anything at all. so PM is calling him to ask to clean !! but meanwhile I asked for ingoing and outgoing report with photos. I was told there is no photos for in or outgoing report. tenant hasn't signed the ingoing and PM said the outgoing report is for their records not for Landlord ?
is it true ? how am I supposed to compare these 2 if I don't have the report ?

any thoughts ?

many thanks

 

[ozsupra]

I think you answered your own question..."I'm in the middle of change of PM"
A.

 

[whitehope06]

I think you answered your own question..."I'm in the middle of change of PM"
A.

Hi
so because I'm changing my PM , I'm not getting the outgoing report ?

 

[buzzlightyear]

The condition report should have been completed and signed off by the tenants, at the start of their tenancy. When the tenant vacates, the condition report is updated to its end condition. The difference between the two, with the exception of fair wear and tear and carpets being steam cleaned, would need to rectified by the tenant. The condition report is however an ingoing and outgoing report in one unless it is different in NSW.

The problem you have is that if there is no signed condition report, aside from PM bluff, cajole, stern words or threat of no rental reference (which is in itself problematic) legally, you don't have a solid position.

Yes, the tenant should clean etc but if they decide to be recalcitrant and play the system, you may have to end up wearing the cost and effort of cleaning as its the condition report that is the ultimate referenced document in case of this dispute.

 

[Jody in Darwin]

As a general rule I never supplied final condition reports to owners unless they specifically requested it. The fact that they are not producing it suggests that there is something they don't want you to see i.e. a lack of amendments at the final inspection...if there was one.

The fact that the tenant did not sign the ingoing condition report at all, let alone within the legislatively specified time, means that the final inspection report would be useless at any tribunal as proof of ingoing condition and therefore providing no outgoing standard for the tenant to adhere to.

I know this is probably not what you want to hear but getting the final inspection report they did is unlikely to solve your problems. Perhaps you should have a chat to the principal about the serious breach of duty that occurred when they allowed the tenants to move in without a signed ingoing condition report and see if the agency will 'fix' the issues you are concerned with.

KR,
Jody

 

[Sez]

Hi,
I'm in the middle of change of PM and tenant at the moment.
I had a final inspection for our IP, it was horrible , the carpet, walls , bathrooms,.... the tenant hasn't cleaned anything at all. so PM is calling him to ask to clean !! but meanwhile I asked for ingoing and outgoing report with photos. I was told there is no photos for in or outgoing report. tenant hasn't signed the ingoing and PM said the outgoing report is for their records not for Landlord ?
is it true ? how am I supposed to compare these 2 if I don't have the report ?

any thoughts ?

many thanks

I would think that as it is your property you are entitled to the documents relating to said property? A condition report with the exit details would suffice. The fact that there are no photos is unfortunate and something I would never recommend any PM do, however, it isn't unheard of nor is it required by the Act (at least in VIC it isn't).

As far as the tenant not signing the condition report, again, not recommended but not unheard of. In VIC I have taken over a portfolio where the property manager doesn't require the tenant to sign the master copy of the condition report to indicate they have received it, leaving me at the end of the tenancy with a mess and only the Agent's signature. I have attended tribunal with this and it has still been used to ascertain the condition of the premises at the commencement of the tenancy because the PM had signed it so all may not be lost!

If your PM continues to refuse to provide you with the documents you are requesting then contact NSW Fair Trading and ask them if there are grounds for them to step in, if they do I am sure you will get this report very, very quickly!

Good Luck!

 

[Empty Pockets]

The fact that the tenant did not sign the ingoing condition report at all, let alone within the legislatively specified time, means that the final inspection report would be useless at any tribunal as proof of ingoing condition and therefore providing no outgoing standard for the tenant to adhere to.

Tenant has 7 days to return the form. If after a satisfactory attempt by the agent to follow up the report has still not been returned the tribunal will refer to the agents report unless the tenant can prove otherwise.

 

[Empty Pockets]

I asked for ingoing and outgoing report with photos. I was told there is no photos for in or outgoing report.

A bit late to be chasing up an ingoing report now. Something to remember with your new PM.

I have one PM that takes photo's of inside the oven and any other area where there is some wear. These are also attached to the lease when the tenant signs up to ensure everything is in check.

Most import thing is to get your property re-let. Find out from the old PM when the tenant is going to clean and if it's not done properly get someone in asap.

 

[whitehope06]

A bit late to be chasing up an ingoing report now. Something to remember with your new PM.

Most import thing is to get your property re-let. Find out from the old PM when the tenant is going to clean and if it's not done properly get someone in asap.

no sign of outgoing report , lesson learnt !!

Tenat was told to clean the unit today,we are waiting for it to be done. PM said if she's not happy with his cleaning she will get a professional. I've already gave her 3 cleaning services contact details (moving out cleaning and carpet cleaning )
I told her it's better to be done by the end of week ,cos I have to rent it out asap .

finger cross

 

[Jody in Darwin]

Tenant has 7 days to return the form. If after a satisfactory attempt by the agent to follow up the report has still not been returned the tribunal will refer to the agents report unless the tenant can prove otherwise.

Regardless of whether or not the tenant returns the report with amendments in 7 days, they must still be signed by the tenant to be used as conclusive proof of the ingoing condition of the property.

The time period I was referring to was the requirement to get the ingoing condition report to the tenant no later than 3 business days after tenant takes possession of premises.

KR,
Jody

 

[whitehope06]

Carpet cleaning

Hi
Tenant refused to clean the carpet, because by new law, he doesn't have to !! but I'm not talking about professional cleaning, at least he has to clean the carpet, and get rid of all those stains .

it's not about "wear and tear" , it's beyond that !!

can I claim carpet cleaning expense through his bond ?

 

[Jody in Darwin]

Hi again,

Am happy to go into more detail if you like (feel free to PM me) but to cut a long story short, I would say why not give it a go?

You will have to have it cleaned anyway to re-lease and it seems as though your outgoing tenant is unwilling to do it. The worst that can happen is that the tenant will apply to have this part of his bond returned, the Commissioner (if that is what s/he is called in you state) will allow it and you will have to cover a $110 - $220 steam cleaning bill yourself (unless you can convince the agent to pay for it).

I know this is cold comfort from where you stand now but if cleaning is the worst of your troubles in a situation where there is no legitimate ingoing and outgoing condition report then that's not bad - it could have been much much worse.

Am sorry this has happened to you when you have employed a 'professional' to ensure the property is managed properly. I hope you are reimbursed for the clean-up one way or another. Good luck.

KR,
Jody

 

[kkrp]

Buzz is spot on, and there is nothing in the act that stipulates PM's must give owners photos as part of the exit condition report, some do, some dont.