Asbestos

[IndexFund]

An update...the asbestos removalist is coming tomorrow at 7.30AM. Cost is $400

Seems like a lot, but I'd rather spend $400 than regret it down the track.

We found a wasps nest today

So much joy. But I wouldn't have it any other way. We'll keep battling on.

400 bucks that can potentially save your life in 20 years is a drop in the ocean... dont even think of it as expensive.

 

[Dave Hooper]

It ended up being $550, they discovered more than I realised was there.

Anyway, I'm happy it's all gone, and we now have a shell for a bathroom, ready for starting afresh tomorrow with new board, new suite, tiles etc.

Big day today, I am soooooo tired. Just got home now. Back into it at 8am tomorrow.

 

[Minx]

My partner did a reno job for a mate on his parents ppor came to re doing the eves. He had a look and told his mate that they were asbestos. His mate phoned his dad who said nah it's not etc. My partner calls me, now i'm a very easy going person but i flipped it on the phone and demanded he leave the job and come home right now. I ranted and raved that he was no good for me sick and dead coz i loved him too much yada yada yada.

My partner did the smart thing and came home. Not before taking a sample though. He came home and phoned his mate telling him he had left and refused to work there until the asbestos was cleared. His friend then ranted and raved that it wasn't asbestos as the house was built in the mid 80's etc.

My partner organanised to have the sample dropped off to be analysed near by. Within an hour he was phoned to be informed that it was infact asbestos.

My partner then went back to finish the job once the asbestos was cleared. These people kicked up a stink coz it was an additional cost.

It really, really peeed me off. You touch it, you remove it but don't try and endanger someone i care for. My partner is a tradie so he has a higher chance of being exposed compared to the average owner renovator.

Sorry this is the end of my rant.

Edit: My partner knows what asbestos looks like, but gave his mate the $120 odd bill for the analyzing of asbestos and the report that followed. He then informed him that his uncle had died from it, and only then did the oh crap i'm sorry apology came.

 

[landlubber]

It only takes one asbestos fibre to get caught in your lungs......

Let's try to get some perspective on this alleged "asbestos" issue. In Queensland , many, many thousands of homes have fibro ( asbestos cement ) for their interior walls, their exterior walls ...many, many roofs and even gutters/spouting etc.

If it was true for one second that "just one fibre" was all that was needed then every builder, roofer etc in Queensland would have asbestosis. Not to mention the thousands and thousands of home owners who have lived in these houses for years ( I am one.)

Not only that, back a few years EVERY car had asbestos in the brake linings and, if it was a manual transmission, also the clutch plate. That means, as well as the building trades, virtualy EVERY motor mechanic would also have asbestosis.

I could go on ... asbestos was used to insulate pipework in all manner of industrial applications, boats etc .

If it was THAT dangerous millions would be suffering from asbestosis..but they obviously are not.

Whilst I'm totally sympathetic for anybody who gets sick for ANY reason, this asbestosis issue is mostly driven by the almighty buck.

Them's the facts folks.
LL

 

[landlubber]

asbestos farce goes on...

This is the kind of wasteful, stupid farce all this asbestos bunk has become.
How much time, energy and money are going to be wasted on this one !
When "money" and "fear" walk in ... common sense has completely "gone fishin" !!
LL

http://www.theage.com.au/news/natio...l-building-site/2008/05/24/1211183189582.html

 

[Muffinman]

Let's try to get some perspective on this alleged "asbestos" issue. In Queensland , many, many thousands of homes have fibro ( asbestos cement ) for their interior walls, their exterior walls ...many, many roofs and even gutters/spouting etc.

If it was true for one second that "just one fibre" was all that was needed then every builder, roofer etc in Queensland would have asbestosis. Not to mention the thousands and thousands of home owners who have lived in these houses for years ( I am one.)

Not only that, back a few years EVERY car had asbestos in the brake linings and, if it was a manual transmission, also the clutch plate. That means, as well as the building trades, virtualy EVERY motor mechanic would also have asbestosis.

I could go on ... asbestos was used to insulate pipework in all manner of industrial applications, boats etc .

If it was THAT dangerous millions would be suffering from asbestosis..but they obviously are not.

Whilst I'm totally sympathetic for anybody who gets sick for ANY reason, this asbestosis issue is mostly driven by the almighty buck.

Them's the facts folks.
LL

landlubber you have no clue what you are talking about those comments are insulting to the people who have died and suffer from asbestos.
Almighty buck what a joke , $18,000 for loss of life is no big bucks, you cannot put a price on human life!

I recently lost my dad this year age 52 to Mesothelioma and he did not work with it heavily or have little to do with it.
I suggest you do some research before posting STUPID comments.

Millions of people die from it every year and the reason you do not hear much because they don't have time to complain or live. 90% die in the first 9 months and the remaining lucky to see 15 months.

The fibres can sit dormant in your body for years then suddenly it's all over.

The mighty buck what a stupid comment, you should be ashamed of yourself!

Asbestos in the home can kill!

 

[Muffinman]

This is the kind of wasteful, stupid farce all this asbestos bunk has become.
How much time, energy and money are going to be wasted on this one !
When "money" and "fear" walk in ... common sense has completely "gone fishin" !!
LL

http://www.theage.com.au/news/natio...l-building-site/2008/05/24/1211183189582.html

I'm sure you will not be saying that if it was your children or family members who die from such fibres.
Little children have died from hugging their parents who returned home from working with asbestos for the day. Wives have died washing the same clothing that killed their children that contained fibres.

Clearly you have NO value for human life and make me sick with your comments.

 

[wylie]

I also have lost an uncle, also with no great exposure to asbestos sheeting. It is not a nice way to die. He was in a lot of pain that could not be relieved at all well enough.

According to the medical professionals, there will be huge number of DIY renovators with these asbestos diseases. I cannot think of anything about this statement that has to do with dollars.

When I think of the renovating we have done over the years before we knew the danger, my blood runs cold. I cannot do anything to change the past, and I feel sad to think we have been playing with something that could kill us down the track. I don't believe it is a beat up. I believe it is a huge dormant problem that we will see more and more of as the years roll by.

 

[landlubber]

landlubber you have no clue what you are talking about ]

MM , what I posted regarding the uses of asbestos are "common knowledge" and fact . I didn't make it up. The link you provided even says much the same things ....here's some quotes FROM YOUR LINK ..

....The risks of existing materials
Generally, the presence of asbestos in home building materials does not pose a health risk unless the material is broken, deteriorating or disturbed ...

Here's another one ...
Asbestos has also been used by the automotive industry.... take care if you are carrying out maintenance on car brakes, clutches or gaskets purchased or installed before that date.

( disclaimer..I have abreviated both quotes for forum brevity but not so as to change their meaning.)

Millions of people die from it every year ....]

Millions ?? ...have you got a link for that one please ??

MM ...since you're obviously close to a coronary on this one ...you better google on "MDF health risks" or even "wood dust health risks". There's LOT's of stuff out there that can make us all sick mate.

Whilst I feel sorrow and sympathy for anybody who get's sick for ANY reason ( repeated from previous post to hopefully control linch mob who doesn't read posts fully) and I fully acknowledge that it can and does kill people, I am still of the opinion ( free country ..right?) that this one is "way out of perspective".

LL

 

[Muffinman]

Landlubber the use of asbestos is wide, it is used to make more than 5,000 products worldwide so give up trying to stir this is another direction to save face.

The comments you made below are nothing but stupid! ( fact)
.

If it was THAT dangerous millions would be suffering from asbestosis..but they obviously are not.

Do some research!

Whilst I'm totally sympathetic for anybody who gets sick for ANY reason, this asbestosis issue is mostly driven by the almighty buck.

As for being close to a coronary is far from,more like pissed off that people like you exist who make totally STUPID comments about subjects you know nothing about.
The only person who need to google/research is you, I work in the building industry and well aware what can make you sick.
Asbestos kills it does not make you sick!

Asbestos is not about money, and no money can bring back the people who die every year from asbestos.
It is impossible to do a death count as the goverment covers it up. Maybe not millions but 140,000-200,000 per year die from asbestos, either way a link is not required to prove any thing.

Even when mesothelioma treatment is possible, it is very expensive, sometimes costing between $200,000 and $800,000 for oxygen, drugs, pain medicine and other forms of treatment that do not fix the problem in any way!
There is NO CURE for asbestos, you DIE a painful death!

You totally make me sick with you comments and the only reason I have bothered to respond is becaue I would not want to see people misguided by your brainless comments.

WARNING PEOPLE ASBESTOS KILLS !

 

[boomtown]

From today's press:

A NEW wave of fatal asbestos-related diseases is on the way, threatening amateur home renovators.

Experts say the national death toll of 3000 a year from mesothelioma and asbestos-related lung cancers will double in the next 10 years and the proportion of Queenslanders in this category is set to rise from the current one in five.

Mesothelioma deaths in Queensland have leapt 30 per cent since 1997, outstripping all states and territories.

Asbestos Diseases Foundation of Australia president Barry Robson said the first cases of renovators falling victim to the killer diseases were appearing, and he warned there were many more to come.

Mesothelioma is an incurable cancer that wraps itself around lung lining. It can take 20 to 30 years to appear, then usually kills within six to 18 months.

Researcher and former university lecturer Jim Leigh said terminal asbestos-related lung cancer rates were about double those of mesothelioma; both diseases are set to peak in the coming decade.

The first victims of the diseases were asbestos miners, followed by a second wave of the makers of building products, and later tradespeople.

Queensland Asbestos Related Disease Support Society chair Chris Smith, who has asbestos-related lung cancer, warned home renovators to take precautions.

"One exposure may kill, so if you're not sure if it's asbestos, wear a mask," Mr Smith said.

"The asbestos out there now is in a worse condition than it was. It's deteriorating and dusting away."

The Australian Institute of Health and Welfare recorded 105 new Queensland mesothelioma cases in 2005, from 569 Australia-wide.

Forecasts are based on a steady rise since data collection began in the 1980s but health professionals and support groups say the statistics are under-reported.

 

[landlubber]

From boom towns post ...

"The Australian Institute of Health and Welfare recorded 105 new Queensland mesothelioma cases in 2005, from 569 Australia-wide."

Some logic to mix with your overworked emotion ... Of the many, many people who lived in the houses, the schools, the offices, worked in the trades, built the houses, the pipes, worked in the factories, the mines, every mechanic and car repairer , every back-yard mechainc, every boiler worker , every mariner plus their wives who washed their clothes etc etc ...for over half a century ....

you got 569 new cases in a year out of 20 million plus population...and that's assuming all were diagnosed correctly.

So millions and millions are dying hey Muffinman ...Gimme a break !!

I rest my case.
LL

 

[Ausprop]

what case have you rested?


ASBESTOS: The Silent Killer
The number of people diagnosed with asbestos related diseases will not peak until 2020 or even later — by then there will be 13,000 cases of mesothelioma and up to 40,000 cases of asbestos-related lung cancer. That's 53,000 cases of incurable cancer caused by asbestos over the next 20 years!

-----------------

No-one knows exactly how many deaths have been cased by asbestos because it is often misdiagnosed. Its effects can take up to 40 years to become apparent.

------------------


Some people have contracted mesothelioma after brief and unexpected exposure, others 30 years after home renovations, after holiday work as a labourer, or as a result of shaking and washing their husband's clothes.

------------------


http://www.asbestos-disease.com.au/...e5f/?MIval=ew_view&WEBID=165&ep_code=asbestos

 

[HandyAndy888]

Hi Dave,



Just one thing I picked up from the “Reno Kings”: The interest is only tax deductible if the property is leased or genuinely available for rent.

Regards – Ben

That is not entirely true...

 

[HandyAndy888]

Let's try to get some perspective on this alleged "asbestos" issue. In Queensland , many, many thousands of homes have fibro ( asbestos cement ) for their interior walls, their exterior walls ...many, many roofs and even gutters/spouting etc.

If it was true for one second that "just one fibre" was all that was needed then every builder, roofer etc in Queensland would have asbestosis. Not to mention the thousands and thousands of home owners who have lived in these houses for years ( I am one.)

Not only that, back a few years EVERY car had asbestos in the brake linings and, if it was a manual transmission, also the clutch plate. That means, as well as the building trades, virtualy EVERY motor mechanic would also have asbestosis.

I could go on ... asbestos was used to insulate pipework in all manner of industrial applications, boats etc .

If it was THAT dangerous millions would be suffering from asbestosis..but they obviously are not.

Whilst I'm totally sympathetic for anybody who gets sick for ANY reason, this asbestosis issue is mostly driven by the almighty buck.

Them's the facts folks.
LL

I have often contemplated the "one-fiber" notion, it simply can not be true. HOWEVER, we should be cautious, there is no doubt about that....

 

[landlubber]

Only since you pushed the point ...

— by then there will be 13,000 cases of mesothelioma and up to 40,000 cases of asbestos-related lung cancer. That's 53,000 cases of incurable cancer caused by asbestos over the next 20 years![/I]]

hmm ..apart from the fact that we're still just a tad short of Muffins "millions and milllions dying" .. let's keep on with the maths since you guys keep putting them up.
13,000 mesothelioma cases over 20 years ..hmm ..that's 650 per year ...about the same as the previous "569" .... still short of "millions". Since " Mesothelioma IS a form of cancer that is almost always caused by previous exposure to asbestos ", (Direct quote from Wikipedia) then what the hell is the other 40,000 "asbestos related lung cancers" ? How come the other source , the Aust. Inst. of Heath & Welfare didn't mention "related" cancers? hmmm... oh well, anything to strettcccch the numbers I guess.

Anyway, keep the peace, throw 'em all in ....we have a "maybe" number of
2,650 per year. Bit larger number I guess, but over 20 years , with a population of (say) 25 million over that time, still a very, very small fraction of the people who would have been exposed to "just one fibre". And please remember, that's the debate here...not whether this stuff kills, but how many people who were definitely exposed to AT LEAST "one fibre" contract the disease.

http://www.asbestos-disease.com.au/...e5f/?MIval=ew_view&WEBID=165&ep_code=asbestos

Now to your link ..which is a Queensland Society.
Let's check some facts/numbers on the links "about us" page.
The Society was founded on 17 November 1992.
The Society currently has about 1,000 members including about 700 members who are sufferers of asbestos related diseases. Since its founding approximately 320 members of the Society have died of asbestos disease.

hmmm ... 320 members have died in 16 years ...that's 20 per year ( I assume for Qld. only)

Now wouldn't you think that if this asbestos issue was as huge a problem as it's alleged, asuming this is the "main" Qld. society ...the numbers might be just a bit bigger....than 20 per year !!! ( NB. I can't find any other stats or numbers on the web-site ....)

Sky hasn't fallen yet guys... keep trying.
LL

 

[Ausprop]

seems fairly balanced:

http://uninews.unimelb.edu.au/unarticleid_5164.html

anyway yes I agree millions in oz aren't dying. call it 1000 or so people on average per year for the next 50 years or so. Most of which preventable. The manslaughter of 50,000 people in our country should evoke some reaction.

a lot of those had some decent exposure, the person that I know that died from it had no known exposure. Proving you were exposed to 2 fibres vs 1 seems like a fruitless exercise to me. 1 fibre is all it takes, 5 and you have no chance...so what? it's game over regardless.

 

[natmarie73]

Hi guys

I'm not trying to belittle anyone's concerns but from what I can see the people who have developed asbestosis or other asbestos-related problems were those that were standing in the stuff everyday for a long time inhaling vast quantities. When you read reports these guys talk about how they were covered in the stuff all the time, working in enclosed spaces without as much as dust masks etc. This is quite different from the occasional contact most of us will have knowingly or unknowingly while walking around, gardening etc.

I'm careful with the stuff and make sure it's wet when working near it, don't sand it etc. and have had experts removing it when needed. But like most things in small doses you have to be very unlucky for anything to happen. It's good to be careful but asbestos in an IP just demands a bit more care, it's not the end of the world.

Cheers

kaf

My OHS law lecturer recently told us about someone who had died from an asbestos related disease and was only in their mid 30's. Considering it takes around 30 to 40 years to develop symptoms the doctors said he had most probably been exposed to it when his parents renovated their house when he was a baby. Scarey stuff.

As an aside, when doing any renovating you should always wear a respirator, not just a paper mask, because there are many other dusts that you should not be breathing in besides asbestos, including silica dust which can cause silicosis - a lung disease just as bad as asbestosis, and wood dusts which are full of nasty chemicals including formaldehyde, a known carcinogen.

Respirators right up to asbestos rated ones are not expensive and well worth the peace of mind knowing you are not breathing in all sorts of poisonous dusts and fibres. And if you are a smoker, be aware that smoking makes you doubly susceptible to contracting a lung disease from exposure to chemicals and dusts/fibres.

 

[natmarie73]

Only since you pushed the point ...



hmm ..apart from the fact that we're still just a tad short of Muffins "millions and milllions dying" .. let's keep on with the maths since you guys keep putting them up.
13,000 mesothelioma cases over 20 years ..hmm ..that's 650 per year ...about the same as the previous "569" .... still short of "millions". Since " Mesothelioma IS a form of cancer that is almost always caused by previous exposure to asbestos ", (Direct quote from Wikipedia) then what the hell is the other 40,000 "asbestos related lung cancers" ? How come the other source , the Aust. Inst. of Heath & Welfare didn't mention "related" cancers? hmmm... oh well, anything to strettcccch the numbers I guess.

Anyway, keep the peace, throw 'em all in ....we have a "maybe" number of
2,650 per year. Bit larger number I guess, but over 20 years , with a population of (say) 25 million over that time, still a very, very small fraction of the people who would have been exposed to "just one fibre". And please remember, that's the debate here...not whether this stuff kills, but how many people who were definitely exposed to AT LEAST "one fibre" contract the disease.




Now to your link ..which is a Queensland Society.
Let's check some facts/numbers on the links "about us" page.
The Society was founded on 17 November 1992.
The Society currently has about 1,000 members including about 700 members who are sufferers of asbestos related diseases. Since its founding approximately 320 members of the Society have died of asbestos disease.

hmmm ... 320 members have died in 16 years ...that's 20 per year ( I assume for Qld. only)

Now wouldn't you think that if this asbestos issue was as huge a problem as it's alleged, asuming this is the "main" Qld. society ...the numbers might be just a bit bigger....than 20 per year !!! ( NB. I can't find any other stats or numbers on the web-site ....)

Sky hasn't fallen yet guys... keep trying.
LL

I'm sure if one or more of the 20 people who die each year in Qld from asbestos related disease was you, or a family member you would have a different view, especially if you had contacted the disease through exposure in your workplace with your boss telling you it wasn't dangerous and you didn't need to wear any PPE, which is what happened in the past. Aboriginal workers at Wittenoom were told that only white people could get sick from asbestos, and were not provided with any protection whatsoever despite the fact the dangers of exposure to asbestos have been known since the beginning of the 20th century. In my view, this is murder.

You are right in that asbestos is all about the bucks though - so many people have died horrible painful deaths because companies such as James Hardie kept workers in the dark about the dangers of asbestos in order to keep making money for themselves and their shareholders. 659 deaths a year from exposure to something which company bosses knew was dangerous and would cause disease is pretty serious in my opinion - even one death per year is one too many.

That said, it is possible to be exposed to asbestos and never contract any form of lung disease at all - it's a lottery and if you are lucky, your number won't come up.

 

[landlubber]

seems fairly balanced:

http://uninews.unimelb.edu.au/unarticleid_5164.html

balanced ???? here's a direct quote ..

"He says the mesothelioma rate is increasing everywhere. Rising trends show the death-rate in men who are now 40 will be 100 times higher by age 80."

Consider .. average male life expectancy is about 76 -78 years....anyway.

Gees... By age 80, ALL males are mostly dead ...anyway !! What a ridiculous assertion to make.

LL