Ask not what the treasurer can do for you

[Scott No Mates]

From today's SMH, the journo Melissa Browne asks why aren't we looking seriously at the 14/15 budget and how we will adjust to meet the changes rather than just complaining about what I am going to lose from the government purse as if it was a god-given right.

If you're going to be $40/week worse off, dump the extremely expensive mobile phone plan, Foxtel, gas guzzler etc and put that money into something with more of a payback.

Are you looking at maintaining a lifestyle that didn't exist when we started investing?

How have you modified your investment model to factor in changes to your own expectations?

She raises several good points but the shift of responsibility for our outcomes lies squarely on our shoulders not on government to provide equally for all (unless you want to live in a communal society where all effort is remunerated equally).

http://www.smh.com.au/money/planning/ask-not-what-the-treasurer-can-do-for-you-20140525-38x1n.html

 

[HotRod]

Some of those comments beggar belief.

This one is the crux on the problem:

We pay taxes to the government for 40 years or more. The deal is that if we need support at some stage of our lives, or if others need such support, our government will keep its part of the bargain. It is NOT charity. It is NOT generosity. It is NOT a gift. It's a contract. Hockey hasn't yet grasped this.
What IS wrong is that our contributions are used to support the lifestyles of those who need (and perhaps deserve) no assistance. (e.g. Hockey's mates).

Paying into something for 40 years for you retirement is called Superannuation. Paying taxes for 40 years is not like a pension fund. You don't get it back after you have paid it.

I'm 46. I expect the pension age to be 75 or more by the time I ever get to a point where I might be able to access it.

The entitlement mentality. The only thing that people should be entitled to are:

A roof over their heads
Food on the table
Power/gas
basic landline
health care
education (to year 12)
public transport
paid government pension for the truly poor

The basic stuff to sustain life and allow a basic level of education and health care.

That should be the goal of each and every government.

it appears people also think the following are entitlements:

internet
pay TV
Latest techno gadgets
free university/TAFE
$150K job on graduation
Pay no tax
holiday once a year OS
nice clothes
average car
lotto/casino/pokies each week
booze
fags
paid government pension because I've paid taxes for 40 years

The good time of the last 10 or so years are over people. Time to reassess what's important and tighten your belts.

 

[BayView]

The entitlement mentality. The only thing that people should be entitled to are:

A roof over their heads
Food on the table
Power/gas
basic landline
health care
education (to year 12)
public transport
paid government pension for the truly poor

The basic stuff to sustain life and allow a basic level of education and health care.

That should be the goal of each and every government.

I agree with most of what you say.

However, I would trim down the list above even further.

The world really doesn't owe anyone anything.

We are not entitled to a roof, we are not entitled to food on the table, we are not entitled to landline, we are not entitled to paid pension either.

The Govt has a mandate to try and provide a degree of all the above, and that is covered by taxes we all pay.

Personally, I would like to see health care, public transport (and all roads - no tolls) and education to Year 12 - free.

If you want to provide a private version of these three items, there are plenty of private companies who will do that at a charge if you wish to select them.

 

[Dazz]

Paying taxes for 40 years is not like a pension fund. You don't get it back after you have paid it.

This is the gigantic myth out in Labor voting land. Perpetuated by the Labor members who utterly rely on this type of thinking to get them re-elected.

One only has to look at the Budget to see where the tax dollars are spent.

Your tax dollars are spent as soon as they are collected, in the year they are collected, to pay for teachers, police, nurses, road workers, defence personnel, and a myriad of other public servants who keep the country running. Good on them all.

A fair chunk is paid out to those in our community that need our assistance (including aged pensioners), but the balance of those paying in vs those receiving benefits has shifted enormously since the concept was first introduced.

I think it was in 1910 or waaaay back when it was introduced, the average life expectancy for a working male was only 56. Apparently only 4% of working men made it to the age 65. There was a huge wave of working men paying taxes to support that tiny amount.

Nowadays, the majority of men make it to 65 and fortunately live for decades in retirement. With family planning and conservative amounts of children being born, there is no wave of now working men and women to pay for these larger numbers.

Of course, an extra $ Billion every month is being syphoned off to simply pay the interest on the debt that Labor racked up in less than 6 years. That's a $ Billion every month that could do a hell of a lot of good for the Australian community. Alas, none of it can be spent on us.

Could you imagine turning that financial horsepower of $ 30 million every single day towards fantastic community projects. You would be able to pay off completely new fire stations, sporting halls, environmental projects, new roads....all sorts of good things the community wants and needs, all over the country. Instead, the money just holds the debt level constant. A criminal waste.

This is the true cost of the over-spending we have seen in the Labor years.....and it looks like given their attitudes, it hasn't changed one iota, and if they ever get back into Federal Govt, the country will see far more of the wicked, highly inefficient spending that was seen.


I'm hearing constantly from all quarters that "something needed to be done" to bring the Budget back to surplus, but other than everyone agreeing slapping the people who earn over 180K p.a. with an extra 2% p.a. of income tax being a grand idea (and why wouldn't they.....95% plus are all Liberal voters !!....no skin off the Labor Party noses), nothing else is acceptable. Joy.

Of course, this extra tax wasn't promised in the pre-election campaign, but because it doesn't affect Labor voters, the Labor politician leaders, Shorten in the House and Wong in the Senate have both said "we won't stand in the way".

So they are happy to support the Govt break that pre-election promise....

 

[MarkB]

This is the gigantic myth out in Labor voting land. Perpetuated by the Labor members who utterly rely on this type of thinking to get them re-elected.

Remind everyone again which Prime Minister introduced the superannuation guarantee?

 

[BayView]

Remind everyone again which Prime Minister introduced the superannuation guarantee?

Now; there's a job killer - and going up yet again in July..

Put it back on the worker to save for their retirement, thanks.

 

[HotRod]

I agree with most of what you say.

However, I would trim down the list above even further.

The world really doesn't owe anyone anything.

We are not entitled to a roof, we are not entitled to food on the table, we are not entitled to landline, we are not entitled to paid pension either.

The Govt has a mandate to try and provide a degree of all the above, and that is covered by taxes we all pay.

Personally, I would like to see health care, public transport (and all roads - no tolls) and education to Year 12 - free.

If you want to provide a private version of these three items, there are plenty of private companies who will do that at a charge if you wish to select them.

I said that in the context of the bottom rung of society.

As a first world country with a stable government, I think it is the responsibility of the nation to ensure that no-one through no fault of their own are entitled to those basic minimums.

The hard part is defining what is the lowest rung and making sure that people at these levels do attempt to better their own life on their own before the government protects them with cotton wool.

 

[Scott No Mates]

Now; there's a job killer - and going up yet again in July..

Put it back on the worker to save for their retirement, thanks.

Part of the accord back in 1985ish was a trade-off of a wage increase for a pittance of super. I recall that CBus was one of the first industry funds which haf a compulsory employer contribution of $50 per week. Then came CERT the redundancy scheme (RORT or scam).

 

[Bantam Roosta]

Put it back on the worker to save for their retirement, thanks.

Unfortunately, they don't. Then, in order to ensure that they have enough to feed themselves the government has to step in and support them.

The 10% who know how to plan and look after themselves suffer, but I'm willing to take that hit in order to free up government coffers later in time.

BR

 

[datto]

I think Abbott is punishing Australians because Rudd gave handouts as part of the stimulus package.

The stimulus package saved Australia from the GFC. Yes it was expensive. I got my 900 odd dollars and so did many Lib supporters (I wonder how many of those handed the money back because it was such a bad idea lol - I'll tell you how many...zip)

Rudd deserves a medal

Abbott should pull his head in, and stop picking on the poor, the elderly, the sick, the lowly paid. What kind of a bully is he? He should get his money from the big end of town, if he's got anything that even remotely resembles a ticker.

Yes, I am a Labor supporter. But like all property investors, we have made money from the forces of the property market, not the political party of the past. However, these Abbott policies are going to hurt our tenants which in turn will hurt most of us!

Abbott, Hockey and the media which support these clowns have to be rebuked!



.

 

[Dazz]

I think Abbott is punishing Australians because Rudd gave handouts as part of the stimulus package.

Abbott and Hockey and the Govt are bringing the Budget back under control and onto a sustainable footing, after Labor delivered 6 of the largest deficits in our history, one after the other. It couldn't continue.

Which part of "the country can't afford to keep spending massively more than it earns" don't you get ??

Your only solution is "get it from the big end of town" ?? The USSR had a 72 year trial of that theory....it failed miserably.

Labor had a good crack at the Mining Tax under that theory. Only a Labor Govt could destroy the investment confidence and decision making of an entire industry.....the only industry holding it's head up, whilst at the same time not collect any revenue while they are at it.....and, to top it all off, more than spend the entire projected proceeds from the Tax before it had produced a dime. Choice....a triple whammy ****-up.

Economic management really isn't their strong suit.

What else do you suggest ??

 

[datto]

Rudds mining tax was better than Gillards (which was like peeing in the wind)

 

[MarkB]

Economic management really isn't their strong suit.

Over 10 years ago I posted this (admittedly, it was in the context of and in reply to the suggestions of some that an ALP Govt would see Interest Rates move up past 10%) -

"The coalition prides itself in sensible economic management.

When next they are in Government the ALP would sell their own political mother if it meant they could prove that the disaster of "the recession we had to have" is not a recurring feature of their terms."

To that end, the Rudd/Gillard/Rudd Government failed (and I was wrong ).

And that is because irrespective of whatever context an objective mind can give it, the apparent truth for the majority of Australians (who look only at the simplicity of the bottom line) is that the ALP has again shown itself to be poor economic managers.

In saying that - Hawke and Keating, while also engineering the recession we had to have but, in doing so, they transformed Australia.

The Accord (a forerunner to EB), the floating of the dollar, the deregulation of the financial sector, privatisations and corporatisations, the removal and reduction of tariffs, quotas and subsidies.... All examples of doing the hard yards in terms of economic policy.

It would be nice to have an ALP that again thought like that.

Economic Policy Sidebar -

Keating even had a GST up his sleeve at least as far back as 1985. Ken Henry (later Secretary to the Treasury) modelled it for him using "Prismod". Ironically Prismod Mk II "Son of Prismod" was later used by Keating to help shoot down John Hewson's "Fightback!" in 1993. And, to complete the circle, in the late 1990's the model was again dusted off, rejigged and updated, and used to forecast the effects of the GST as it is today.

 

[Dazz]

As I thought, plenty of criticism over the Budget, but no Labor politician or supporter has the remotest clue as to how to bring the Budget under control.

The Australian population knew and know this, and it's why the Liberals were given the job of fixing the huge problem left to them by Labor....just like they always do.

Having rocks thrown at them by the people who caused the mess....whilst they go about the unpopular business of cleaning up the mess, doesn't help.

 

[MarkB]

The Australian population knew and know this, and it's why the Liberals were given the job of fixing the huge problem left to them by Labor....just like they always do.

Just like they always do....

I just had to save that quote.

 

[datto]

The Australian people weren't ready for this budget. If an election were to be held tomorrow, this govt. would be ousted - no worries about that.

Australian voters were duped. They were fed lies about how bad Labor was. Oh Gillard this, Gillard that. Rudd this , Rudd that. Well now they got Abbott/Hockey bleeding them dry.

 

[The Fence]

Oh come on Datto, really?

Mate, the public have spoken and they want the mess cleaned up.

Do you or not?

What do you mean not ready? Seriously Datts..

So do you think it was just a case of Gillard this Rudd that?

Do you understand the enormity of what those 2 individuals caused in politics?

 

[Scott No Mates]

Well now they got Abbott/Hockey bleeding them dry.

Why? Hmmmm let's see maybe it's to fix up the legacy of three terms of hard labor (sic).

 

[datto]

Fence, TNT, the ALP did not hurt yous in any way. You did not lose any money from the ALP. Matter of fact no Australian citizens lost out. Show me where they did.

But, on the other hand the Libs have made citizens poorer (or are about to be).

 

[D.T.]

Fence, TNT, the ALP did not hurt yous in any way. You did not lose any money from the ALP. Matter of fact no Australian citizens lost out. Show me where they did.

But, on the other hand the Libs have made citizens poorer (or are about to be).

You dont lose anything or get hurt in anyway when you max out all your personal credit cards too. But sooner or later someone has to make a few sacrifices to get that back under control. To fix it, you'd probably start by skipping a few of your existing luxuries.

Why is it such a horrendous crime when govt does the same thing?