"Australian Exceptionalism"
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Stop your bluddy whinging.
Yep; I "whinged up".
Hey; I was just "raising a concern for discussion"; totally different thing
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Yep; I "whinged up".
Hey; I was just "raising a concern for discussion"; totally different thing
Okay then. Discussion engaged.
So, what have your concerns of "ageing population, a lower-socio economic under-class, gangs, immigration, boat people, power bills and Ebay" logically got to do with low growth outside of the mining sector?
The answer is, of course, somewhere between very little . . . and absolutely nothing. Why? Simply because the mining boom (which is forcing non-mining businesses everywhere in the country to restructure or perish) does not of itself -
1. reduce birth rates or lower immigration
2. prevent socially prudent wealth distribution or impede social mobility
3. alienate youths en masse, or massively reward the drug-running industry
4. supercharge our genuine people's democracy with magnetic power
5. cause ancient power infrastructure to now require urgent replacement
6. induce people to employ technology to reduce costs
Okay then. So what DO all your concerns have in common? Well, to me it looks mostly like they can all be blamed on 'bad elements' - untermenschen and foreigners - above all, unpatriotic types. You do see where I'm going with this, don't you? It ain't pretty, but, as history is my witness, I am afraid it's true.
Something about refuge and scoundrels would be the polite way of putting it
As property investors surely we would love to see a potentially much greater pool of potential tenants right? And the fact that there is a housing shortage means that our values will be put up, right?
And what do well under 1% of migrants that come into this country have to do with it anyway? If you want to get serious about "illegal immigration" why not look at the tens of thousands of people from the UK and US that overstay their visa each year? Surely that is a much bigger issue, but yet it is so often over looked by people complaining about immigration levels...
As property investors surely we would love to see a potentially much greater pool of potential tenants right? And the fact that there is a housing shortage means that our values will be put up, right?
And what do well under 1% of migrants that come into this country have to do with it anyway? If you want to get serious about "illegal immigration" why not look at the tens of thousands of people from the UK and US that overstay their visa each year? Surely that is a much bigger issue, but yet it is so often over looked by people complaining about immigration levels...
Belbo; you are too bloody eloquent and educated for the likes of MOI.
Basically my post was meant to mean that the media and the Fools on the Hill are saying the situation is grand (as per what OO posted) because the nett National figures (thanks mining industry) are terrific, but in reality there is nothing going on other than what I said.
I forgot to add the explosion of Twitterers and Facebookers.
, so we've got those to thank.Steady lad. I was only listing the things that are on the increase.
Don't read into it something that isn't there.
I'm all for immigration; just make sure you can speak English, assimilate, and don't try to force your Countries' religious beliefs onto me. All clear?
I've been spending too much time on the central coast
I think everyone is a big fat racist now...I don't want any religious beliefs forced on to me. This is a secular society.
Belbo; you are too bloody eloquent and educated for the likes of MOI.
Basically my post was meant to mean that the media and the Fools on the Hill are saying the situation is grand (as per what OO posted) because the nett National figures (thanks mining industry) are terrific, but in reality there is nothing going on other than what I said.
I forgot to add the explosion of Twitterers and Facebookers.
Exactly, so let me clarify then what I was getting at . . . .
I think you are meaning to imply that despite this temporary mining boom, 'unpatriotic elements' (i.e. bludgers, louts, immigrants and global corporations) are systematically ruining the country, aided and abetted by the leftwing media, the leftwing government and leftwing international organisations.
I think in other words that you are marking scapegoats to blame for you not getting an easy cut of the mining boom wealth. You're a good patriot but not actually getting ahead, so some no-gooder must be stealing your share, right? What I'm saying is that this is the mother of all self-serving whinges.
All I'm saying is they (the Gubbmint) say it's all good, I see lots of signs of otherwise.
You're attaching too much to what I said, and you're a bit inaccurate with what you think I mean. But since you have, I'll extrapolate.
The Gubbmint keeps saying things (the Economy as a whole) are great ("Look at the figures, everyone!" they tell us). The fact that the Gubbmint is currently Labor has no relevance to my post. The Gubbmint is what it is; the crowd standing up there on the teev at 6.00 o'clock telling us all we're in great shape. Next year it'll probably be "The Abbott" crowing how good the bottom line is.
But, down on the ground where the real folk live and work it ain't so.
300 jobs gone yesterday, another 500 here and there in the last few weeks, 1000 from Bluescope a while ago...the list is growing. Empty shops everywhere, builders without work all over the place, more families lining up outside the Salv's doors than last year, houses not selling...Retravision the latest retail casualty of larger proportions, Clive Peeters a few months back...there are a million examples.
Is Ebay good? In many ways, yes. It has changed the way the world shops to a large degree. But the reality is it's killing off retail stores and jobs. How bad will it get? I don't know, but because I'm involved in retail through once golf and now tyres and car accessories, all my ex-golf colleagues still are in retail, and my business is a good barometer for the normal folk's everyday existence - we can see the trends past and present. I don't know what you and Ideo do for jobs, or have done for jobs as adults, or for how long, but I'm telling you from my view of over 35 years in selling and providing products and services to the public what I see and have seen.
Is immigration good? In many ways, yes. Immigration for the sake of it; no. Filling up the Country with more heads is not always good; especially if the job market is not increasing in the Country - if anything it is contracting unless you work in food and services. And let's be frank about this; there are some who will definitely not integrate and become part of Australia after they arrive. They simply want to transfer away from the not-so-hot Country they were in (otherwise why move?), and set up a new camp here and continue on. That's not on in my book; you come here to live, you adopt our way of life which is a bloody good one, and be thankful to be in such a great Country.
My in-laws are Dutch and Croatian; met on the boat coming over here more than 40 years ago, and they are terrific. Still embrace their heritage, but are terrific Australians who contribute enormously.
Is there a booming under-class of neanderthal type oxygen wasters who beget gangs, crime, and all the other anti-social behavior which erode society and cost everyone uncountable dollars each year in fixing up what they destroy and paying for them to eat from of our hard earned taxes, putting more financial strain on the state Gubbmints etc? Yep. They are far more likely to pump out a load of offspring who will more than likely replicate their parents' behaviour and attitudes, while the more educated and diligent in the world replicate less.
It remains to be seen what benefit (if any) and how the mining tax will be to the wider community; if they give it to people as handouts it may result in a bit of a spend up, but infrastructure and long-term job creation incentives is where it should be channeled is my view.
Now; that's the mother of all whinges.
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No marc, youre just having a MASSIVE whinge.
Yep; I "whinged up".
Hey; I was just "raising a concern for discussion"; totally different thing
The irony is that it was the actions of the right wing, unregulated, business types that caused the GFC in the first place.
And it was pretty much repaired with left wing socialist principles. (nationalisation of business and industries, govt. intervention everywhere...etc)
And it was pretty much repaired with left wing socialist principles. (nationalisation of business and industries, govt. intervention everywhere...etc)
Yep. That's the one. The same lovely old billious tirade you've been spewing forth for the last couple of years. So, if a rightwing-shaped purge of these unpatriotic elements for the sake of the long-suffering good Aussie small businessman isn't the solution, what pray is?
Yep. That's the one. The same lovely old billious tirade you've been spewing forth for the last couple of years. So, if a rightwing-shaped purge of these unpatriotic elements for the sake of the long-suffering good Aussie small businessman isn't the solution, what pray is?
I don't know. I don't think anyone has a solution, and the path is set now and it worries me.
What's your solution? You're quick to jump on me because I bring it up and discuss it. Give me your take on it all.
What I say is not just for the sake of only the little businesses because I run one. But it can't be ignored either. Small business (and medium) employs most of our people. When you hear of the medium companies on the teev going under and shedding jobs, I'll bet there are 5 more little blokes shedding jobs at the same time that don't get reported.
Do you work in a small company that provides products directly over the counter to people? If you don't and never have - which a good number of people are like - then it's hard for those people to really see what is the truth out there. They only have the stats provided the boyos on the hill and the teev.
I'm not whingeing about things and how they affect me directly; I'm still doing ok overall. People still need tyres and cars fixed, so we are reasonably protected.
I was just making observations is all because OO brought up the topic through the article she found.
It gets me when - and it's not a new phenomenon - that the boyo's on the hill get the spin happenin'.
I'm not totally right wing I don't think; my social conscience is strong; I just like to see people try to do a little more around the joint and not be self-centred and a taker, you know?
Bayview - I'm not going to quote as it will just end up as a massive post that will be hard to read.
I can see some of what you are saying (particularly in your last post). I used to do a lot of work for residential developers but that work has dried up - now it is state and local government (and coal mines) that are the main players.
However - it is not all doom and gloom. But to be successful it does require adaptation - respond to new threats and work out strategies of dealing with them. And by that I mean that large retailers should stop simply complaining about how hard everything is and how the government should step in and save them. They created the mess (well, actually the wholesalers have) and need to look at ways of finding a way out of it.
You talk of handout culture and all take no give. And I see large scale retail in Australia in the same way. It is constant requests for government assistance rather than actually tackling the problem themselves. For companies that provide a physical service (such as fitting a tyre) the situation is a bit different, but for the Gerry Harveys etc they are simple not adapting - and just like they drove out independent stores, they will be driven out if they don't change their approach.
However, I fail to see how immigration has a single thing to do with the issue. Without we would have a declining population base which would cause further impacts on the retail sector, decrease housing demand and generally cause much greater economic hardship.
All that said, good work for playing the game and not the man.
I can see some of what you are saying (particularly in your last post). I used to do a lot of work for residential developers but that work has dried up - now it is state and local government (and coal mines) that are the main players.
However - it is not all doom and gloom. But to be successful it does require adaptation - respond to new threats and work out strategies of dealing with them. And by that I mean that large retailers should stop simply complaining about how hard everything is and how the government should step in and save them. They created the mess (well, actually the wholesalers have) and need to look at ways of finding a way out of it.
You talk of handout culture and all take no give. And I see large scale retail in Australia in the same way. It is constant requests for government assistance rather than actually tackling the problem themselves. For companies that provide a physical service (such as fitting a tyre) the situation is a bit different, but for the Gerry Harveys etc they are simple not adapting - and just like they drove out independent stores, they will be driven out if they don't change their approach.
However, I fail to see how immigration has a single thing to do with the issue. Without we would have a declining population base which would cause further impacts on the retail sector, decrease housing demand and generally cause much greater economic hardship.
All that said, good work for playing the game and not the man.
What Marc is touching on is the haves and have nots in society. Its always been there and will always be there.
Is he proposing a Thatcherite like country where every person rises up and becomes employed or a small business owner, well educated and raised by great parents. I don't think thats gonna happen.
Its like the war against drugs, nothing will ever change it. Its just there, even with circa 5% unemployment.
Is he proposing a Thatcherite like country where every person rises up and becomes employed or a small business owner, well educated and raised by great parents. I don't think thats gonna happen.
Its like the war against drugs, nothing will ever change it. Its just there, even with circa 5% unemployment.
When I mentioned immigration in my first post, it was as an example of contradiction to the other elements in the Economy that I believe are on the decline.
There was no more intent than that; I could have said a hundred other things that are on the increase to illustrate the point I guess, so maybe a bad choice of example.
You are right of course; without population increase we need immigration to help increase the customer base.
Talking of mining:
Gina Rinehart
Her temperament (to the best of my research, 'yet') is that of :
Inspector Guardian
Attentive, directive, contending, administrative, knows her figures...
Some other Inspector Guardians:
Queen Elizabeth II
Harry S Truman
Warren Buffett
Queen Victoria
Vlad. Putin
John D. Rockefeller
Definitely a Contender.
From the Monthly:
http://www.themonthly.com.au/gina-r...nd-gratitude-what-gina-wants-nick-bryant-5024
I think that emphasis about House of Hancock is her tradition, part that motivates her, well, does seem her overriding drive let's face it. That and power. Not unlike Russia's Vlad Putin tight fisted grip. Power and control at all cost.
From:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inspector_(Role_Variant)
She worshipped her father, (her and he had disagreements apparently too on some occasions) was quite contentious with Rose, has had some run ins with ex staff, now her own children 'not toeing the Gina Rinehart Line Agenda'.
Gina Rinehart
Her temperament (to the best of my research, 'yet') is that of :
Inspector Guardian
Attentive, directive, contending, administrative, knows her figures...
Some other Inspector Guardians:
Queen Elizabeth II
Harry S Truman
Warren Buffett
Queen Victoria
Vlad. Putin
John D. Rockefeller
Definitely a Contender.
From the Monthly:
http://www.themonthly.com.au/gina-r...nd-gratitude-what-gina-wants-nick-bryant-5024
I think that emphasis about House of Hancock is her tradition, part that motivates her, well, does seem her overriding drive let's face it. That and power. Not unlike Russia's Vlad Putin tight fisted grip. Power and control at all cost.
From:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inspector_(Role_Variant)
She worshipped her father, (her and he had disagreements apparently too on some occasions) was quite contentious with Rose, has had some run ins with ex staff, now her own children 'not toeing the Gina Rinehart Line Agenda'.
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