"Australian Exceptionalism"

[Belbo]

There is meddling and there is meddling. To say every country meddles is both simplistic and disingenuous.

Really? Please do explain.

And getting back to the base fear, anger and greed agenda of right wing politics is exactly that. You are with us or agin us. There is no grey with these idiots, only black and white. What a joke.

You make very subtle distictions between the politics of meddling US-style and meddling by others, yet you appear incapable of employing the same subtlety in analysing right wing politics.

 

[evand]

Ok, New Zealand meddles in the south pacific, but not in a harmful aggressive way. So does Australia, but by no means in way to bring terrorism on itself.

America meddles across the world, in a MAJOR way, having a massive impact on countries. With obvious results.

As with Rome, its their foreign policy that will be their undoing. And demise as the sole superpower. God, i hope China is benevolent.

Its like saying there is crime in every post code in Australia. Yes, true statement. But it hides the fact that there is a huge variation in crime statistics from say Tregear to St. Ives. (for a Sydney eg)

There is crime and there is crime.

Really? Please do explain.



You make very subtle distictions between the politics of meddling US-style and meddling by others, yet you appear incapable of employing the same subtlety in analysing right wing politics.

And Intrinsic, Osama could have possibly no grey. But terrorism does.

 

[Belbo]

Ok, New Zealand meddles in the south pacific, but not in a harmful aggressive way. So does Australia, but by no means in way to bring terrorism on itself.

NZ is a mere pissant in international affairs, as the Rainbow Warrior event aptly proved.

Australia however paid severely for "bringing terrorism on itself" with its perceived meddling on Islamic soil alongside the US in Bali in 2002, as you'll well remember.

I know it's easy to resort to flippancy and foolishness on domestic politics, Evan, because we're all in the same boat together, and we collectively get the joke. Nobody dies in domestic politics.

But international politics - written for the most part in spilled human blood - demands a higher level of intellectual rigour than you appear willing to apply to it, so I'll respectfully leave it at that.

 

[evand]

You didn't state previously that only pissant countries dont meddle, when you made your simplistic, all sweeping blanket statement. Or place conditions on your statement that all countries meddle. And therefore are targets for terrorism.

Re Bali, i remember clearly GW Bush stating 'it was our 911" what a freakin fool. He was just trying to drag us in further to the total lie that was Iraq, Iran et al. Of course little Johnny pulled his pants down even further.

And there is no need to resort to condescension when you are proved wrong, or at least in a corner.

NZ is a mere pissant in international affairs, as the Rainbow Warrior event aptly proved.

Australia however paid severely for "bringing terrorism on itself" with its perceived meddling on Islamic soil alongside the US in Bali in 2002, as you'll well remember.

I know it's easy to resort to flippancy and foolishness on domestic politics, Evan, because we're all in the same boat together, and we collectively get the joke. Nobody dies in domestic politics.

But international politics - written for the most part in spilled human blood - demands a higher level of intellectual rigour than you appear willing to apply to it, so I'll respectfully leave it at that.

 

[Belbo]

You didn't state previously that only pissant countries dont meddle, when you made your simplistic, all sweeping blanket statement. Or place conditions on your statement that all countries meddle. And therefore are targets for terrorism.

Re Bali, i remember clearly GW Bush stating 'it was our 911" what a freakin fool. He was just trying to drag us in further to the total lie that was Iraq, Iran et al. Of course little Johnny pulled his pants down even further.

And there is no need to resort to condescension when you are proved wrong, or at least in a corner.

NZ did meddle. It a paid. Aust did meddle. It paid a terrible price. I repeat, all countries meddle where they can. It's not a blanket statement. It's international political reality. It's a blanket fact.

Countries pursue their percieved national interest at every opportunity wherever they think they can precisely because there is no international government with a monopoly on the legitimate use of force to prevent them. It derives from the principle of inviolable national sovereignty, a principle recognised globally by all but terrorists (and the UN Security Council as a last resort faced with human rights abominations).

I'm not being condescending, Evan. I'm simply calling BS. You're way out of your depth in debating international relations. They are one heck of a lot more complicated and critically important to our wellbeing than your adolescent musings merit. Stick to playing cute with your right wingers.

 

[evand]

There you go again. I'm calling your over intellectual verbosity unnecessary and only designed to intimidate, or impress and usually come from an insecure person.

You don't win a debate with big words, you win with facts. And yours are seriously lacking. And compensted for with your big words and condescending attitude.

 

[Belbo]

There you go again. I'm calling your over intellectual verbosity unnecessary and only designed to intimidate, or impress and usually come from an insecure person.

You don't win a debate with big words, you win with facts. And yours are seriously lacking. And compensted for with your big words and condescending attitude.

What? I've clearly stated only the relevant facts.

Countries meddle. They do because they can, and feel they must do so in their national interest. The international system of states is premised on this principle. Islamic terrorists refuse to accept the basic legitimacy of this arrangement. Political judgement requires first being informed and second being careful not to be fooled by the games this involves.

I'm not trying to be smart or compensate for insecurity. I have academic qualifications in this field, and follow the literature as a matter of ongoing personal interest. Moreover, I have no interest whatsoever in your specific credibility: It's purely preventing the public consumption of arrant nonsense that motivates me.

Your tolerance of any form of terrorism - no matter the justification - displays such an appalling lack of primary political judgement that everything else you profess lacks any credibility. (Even the IRA saw and acted on this after 9/11.)

The only one talking out of his behind here is you, sorry.

 

[Aaron Sice]

seriously, take it to PM already......

 

[Dazz]

Nothing to see here....moving right along....

 

[our obsession]

Perhaps most fittingly posted here, amid 'Australian Exceptionalism' from:

The Australian Moment-How We Were Made For These Times by George Megalogenis

There's no better place to be during economic turbulence than Australia. Brilliant in a bust, we've learnt to use our brains in a boom. Although the Great Recession continues to rumble around the globe, we successfully negotiated the Asian financial crisis, the dotcom tech wreck and the GFC. Despite a lingering inability to acknowledge our achievements at home, the rest of the world now asks: How did we get it right?

This is the page-turning story of our nation's remarkable transformation since the '70s. One of our most respected journalists, George Megalogenis, traces the key economic reforms and brilliant moments of collective instinct that opened our society to the immigration of capital, ideas and people to just the right degree. He pinpoints the events that shaped our good fortune and national character, and corrects our selective memory where history has been misunderstood or misdirected by self-interested political leadership.

Only just begun his book, interesting reading, a chat about here also:

Conversation Hour, Jon Faine ABC-audio available

"Speaking about the idea behind he his book, George said "one thing that doesn't consitute greatness is Australia running round the world telling everyone how great we are. The idea of greatness is a perpetually sustainable social and economic model that survives every character test that gobalisation throws our way."

 

[our obsession]

Brief intro to George btw, courtesy of wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Megalogenis

George Megalogenis is an Australian journalist, political commentator and author.

George is a senior feature writer for The Australian newspaper. He is also a regular on the ABC's political analysis program Insiders, where a panel discusses events in Australian politics.

George spent eleven years in the Canberra Press Gallery, from 1988 to 1999, before returning to Melbourne. His writing draws on the personal experiences of someone who grew up in a migrant worker family..

 

[our obsession]

Australia: Economic Envy of the World

From Mark Kenny, The Punch 31/03/12

Excerpt only:

Consider this. Twenty-three per cent of home owners in the United States currently have underwater mortgages. That’s close to one in four home-buyers owing more to the bank than the house is worth.....

 

[kathryn d]

Australia: Economic Envy of the World

From Mark Kenny, The Punch 31/03/12

Excerpt only:

One of the American workers here, worked for lawyers that did a lot of foreclosures. (at least 2000 a month) I said a lot of people must have left the homes in quite a mess. She said they did, but now are being offered an incentive to return the keys and property in good condition. Many will receive from $3k-$8k.

Rob and I were discussing the situation concerning foreclosures.
The banks are losing a lot of money needlessly.
If they would only work with homeowners, a lot of this could be avoided.
They could refinance the property, possibly lower the interest rates on the "balloon payments",have interest only for a period of time.

Selling a house for $100k that has a mortgage of $400k is ridiculous.
The bank has lost $300k.
The economy is down the tube, as a result.

I'm surprised (maybe there are) people aren't buying these foreclosed properties, and selling them back to the original homeowner.

 

[Aaron_C]

I'm surprised (maybe there are) people aren't buying these foreclosed properties, and selling them back to the original homeowner.

With 10% unemployment who is going to give the guy a loan?

 

[kathryn d]

With 10% unemployment who is going to give the guy a loan?

with 90 % employment, there could be lots of private lenders

 

[MrCrumbpacker]

Perhaps most fittingly posted here, amid 'Australian Exceptionalism' from:

The Australian Moment-How We Were Made For These Times by George Megalogenis



Only just begun his book, interesting reading, a chat about here also:

Conversation Hour, Jon Faine ABC-audio available

"Speaking about the idea behind he his book, George said "one thing that doesn't consitute greatness is Australia running round the world telling everyone how great we are. The idea of greatness is a perpetually sustainable social and economic model that survives every character test that gobalisation throws our way."

Clever man, best way to sell a book to Australians is to flatter them with it.

I'm still more a believer in the original 'Lucky country" sentiment.

 

[our obsession]

Australian Economy Leads the World..

Excerpt only, April 18th 2012:

Australia has the strongest economy in the developed world and it is expected to outperform all comers for at least the next two years, according to the International Monetary Fund.

The Treasurer, Wayne Swan, said this update is consistent with the reasons he has given for bringing the budget back to surplus, and criticised Tony Abbott for "talking down the economy".

The IMF - which issued its World Economic Outlook in Washington overnight - said it expected the Australian economy to expand by 3 per cent this year as fiscal tensions from Europe and the United States continue to ease.

 

[MrCrumbpacker]

Ahh,......the good old IMF,

In April 2008 the IMF again stated that Australia's property market was overvalued and close to 25% higher than could be explained by changes in underlying fundamentals

Unfortunately not a very credible bunch, certainly not generally taken seriously by market professionals.

 

[our obsession]

Ahh,......the good old IMF,

In April 2008 the IMF again stated that Australia's property market was overvalued and close to 25% higher than could be explained by changes in underlying fundamentals

Unfortunately not a very credible bunch, certainly not generally taken seriously by market professionals.

Which reminds me, great, (albeit) brief interview with Christine Lagarde talking about how she began her career, female leadership, and 'stuff'.

 

[our obsession]

The Cost of Living in Australia

Brief portion taken from the conclusion only:

Cost of living pressures dominate political debate.

However, the evidence of household budgets examined in this report shows
that the pressures are less to do with the politically sensitive prices of petrol, energy or fresh fruit and more to do with changes in our spending habits and expectations and outsourcing to the services industry.

In spite of cost of living pressures, price inflation in Australia and living costs appear to be relatively benign and have been for the past two decades. With incomes rising more sharply than living costs Australian families have a higher standard of living. The average family is ahead by $224 per week and this growth in average incomes has been spread across all ends of the income
and socio-economic spectrum. Households are spending more money on discretionary expenditure and we find that even low income and pensioner
households spend one in three dollars on discretionary items.

The proportion of household expenditure on the basic essentials of life remain virtually unchanged since 1984 at around 38 per cent of household budgets, approaching 50 per cent for lower income households.

The stability of expenses or living costs over-time uncovered in this report are consistently demonstrated in spite of some items experiencing strong price inflation such as health, tobacco and education. Other items compensate with much lower or negative price inflation, such as audio visual and computing equipment and clothing and footwear.

Indexes developed specifically for measuring the living costs for different household types show that almost without exception, regardless of the type or socio-economic position of households, incomes have grown well beyond living costs.

From:

"Price These Days"-AMP.NATSEM Income and Wealth Report Issue 31 2012.