This is only YOUR opinion.
It has everything to do with stopping drug trafficking.
Indonesians are entitled to have their own laws and if it means losing a few of our bad apples, so be it.
They chose to do it in the first place.
Bali Nine
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It has everything to do with stopping drug trafficking.
Indonesians are entitled to have their own laws and if it means losing a few of our bad apples, so be it.
They chose to do it in the first place.
why not ?
Because it's inhumane, barbaric and inflicts considerable harm on innocent loved ones, as that letter demonstrates.
But profiteering from illegal substances that are a scourge on our society is acceptable?
so does drug trafficking.
in Indonesia's eyes, those two are mass murderers. hence the death penalty.
now in Australia, we are quite happy to send our troops to fight ISIS, where they kill other people with no trial or anything, sometimes innocent civilians etc.
nobody calls them murderers for some reason. yet here you are on your soap box preaching that it's not ok for another government to do the same thing
Of course it isn't but there is no evidence that killing people does anything about that!
And even if it did, we all know the idea that the ends justify the means doesn't end well...
May I just gently point out that Indonesia does everything they can to plead for clemency, compassion and mercy for their Indonesian nationals/citizens on death row in other countries for drug trafficking and drug related offences. Joko himself stated they will do everything they can - provide lawyers, support for the families, write letters, make personal representations - to get Indonesian citizens off death row in other countries, that is - save them from the death penalty. That means Indonesia cares not about the 1,000,000 drug hits delivered to these other countries through their citizens trafficking drugs activity. Indonesia just cares about the lives of their citizens and wants other countries to extend mercy, compassion and clemency and just get their citizens off death row and prevent them from being killed.
There is a double standards here and it's got nothing to do with stopping drug trafficking.
Just one of the many differences in your ludicrous comparison is that in prison, these "mass murderers" (your label - I don't remember Indonesia using the term...) were causing no harm to anyone, whereas ISIS continue to murder innocents at will and won't stop until we are all dead (or convert).
The use of force is sometimes necessary to stop innocent people getting killed, raped and tortured. Of course people get killed in ground wars but if you have another way to stop ISIS killing innocents I'm sure we'd all be glad to hear it...
In any case I don't remember our troops utilising the death penalty - your comparison is utterly ridiculous.
really? so you think our troops just give them pamphlets on how to behave nice?
last time i checked, they used real bombs and guns
my comparison just shows that your comments about sparing lives etc are just complete and total BS. because now you started introducing ifs and buts, and as soon as you do that you may as well just throw your whole concept of 'sacred human life' out of the window
i don't recall indonesia pleading for clemency for drug traffickers. would you care to point out an example?
aside from that, nobody is disputing the right of australia to plead for clemency, provide support etc. that doesn't mean that clemency should be granted.
INDONESIA'S world class hypocrisy over the death penalty has been laid bare in statistics that reveal it fought for and won execution reprieves for nearly 200 of its own citizens.
Some experts estimate there are 360 Indonesians facing the death penalty overseas including vulnerable migrant workers in the Middle East.
The Indonesians who had faced execution but had their death sentences suspended were convicted of crimes including drug smuggling in Malaysia, Saudi Arabia, China, Iran, Singapore.
"I am not requesting of Indonesia anything that Indonesia does not request of other nations where Indonesian citizens face the death penalty," Ms Bishop told The Sunday Telegraph.
"Indonesia has sought and has received from other nations stays of execution for Indonesian citizens on death row, including for drug offences.
"I welcome the fact that Indonesia opposes the death penalty for its citizens abroad and that's why the Australian Government is seeking the same mercy for Mr Sukumaran and Mr Chan".
...........................
Indonesian President Indonesian President Joko Widodo defended his stance in an interview broadcast yesterday on Al Jazeera television.
Indonesian President Joko Widodo is not relenting despite pressure from around the world to spare the Bali Nine duo the death sentence.
"As a head of state of course I'm going to try to save my citizens from execution," he said.
"That's my obligation as a president, as a head of state ... To protect my citizens who are facing the death penalty but on the other hand we have to respect other countries that apply capital punishment.
......................................................
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...-await-execution/story-fni0cx12-1227252877434
Only in your world...
In my world using force to save lives is a world of difference to tying defenceless people to a stake and shooting them.
well indonesians used force to save lives here. not sure what you are whinging about then
Those lives were saved ten years ago unless you're saying that Andrew and Myuran could be international drug couriers from within an Indonesian prison?
i was after concrete examples, not general statements and opinions
nothing stopping them from running a drug syndicate from inside the prison. they haven't given up any names, which indicates they are still involved
gees do we have to have this debate every time this grieving mum unloads her thoughts onto paper? I thought the world had forgotten about this issue and moved on. 2 less drug dealers in the world, the body count grows by the hour in that industry anyway
how about US govt organised hits on bigwigs in SE Asia (and presumably throughout the world)? is that different, or are their lives so sacred and special too?
how about US govt organised hits on bigwigs in SE Asia (and presumably throughout the world)? is that different, or are their lives so sacred and special too?
Sigh! You didn't read past the first paragraph did you, Strannik? From the Daily Telegraph article dated 8 Mar 2015
The Indonesians who had faced execution but had their death sentences suspended were convicted of crimes including drug smuggling in Malaysia, Saudi Arabia, China, Iran, Singapore.
"I am not requesting of Indonesia anything that Indonesia does not request of other nations where Indonesian citizens face the death penalty," Ms Bishop told The Sunday Telegraph.
"Indonesia has sought and has received from other nations stays of execution for Indonesian citizens on death row, including for drug offences."
"I welcome the fact that Indonesia opposes the death penalty for its citizens abroad and that's why the Australian Government is seeking the same mercy for Mr Sukumaran and Mr Chan."
.......................................................................
Concrete enough for you, Strannik? These are Julie Bishop's own words unless you're calling her a liar about the above statements of fact. Indonesia pleads and receives clemency for its own citizen drug traffickers on death row in countries like Saudi Arabia, Malaysia, China, Iran, Singapore.
Can you truly say that Indonesia is 100% tough on drugs like they makes themselves out to be? No, they value the lives of their citizens more and will seek stays of execution for their own citizens no matter what the crime is - drug smuggling, robbery or murder.
Yes, they will get their citizens off a charge even for murder like they paid $2.1 m 'blood money' to Saudi Arabia to save Indonesian maid Ibu Satinah, from beheading in Saudi Arabia after she had been convicted of robbing and murdering her elderly employer.
There are up to 360 Indonesians facing the death penalty overseas, including around 230 on drug charges. Joko Widodo has stated that he will do everything he can "to save my citizens from execution,"
"That's my obligation as a president, as a head of state ... To protect my citizens who are facing the death penalty"
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...-await-execution/story-fni0cx12-1227252877434
